Support HR24 for Impeachment Hearings Tomorrow. Bringing Bush and Cheney to Justice!

Originally posted by ChadAndrewATS
Even though George W. Bush isn't in prison, he will be seen as a criminal for the rest of his life. He is not our chief & commander, he is a servant of false-idols & tyrants. We may see him pay for his crimes, soon enough!

haha wow. nice ignorant comments you made there.
yeah the mans a criminal, he only saved us from a inherited recession, lead us through 9/11, defeated one the worst tyrants of our age, protected and still protects this country from harm. yeah i guess hes a criminal, if having morals and caring about the safety of others and the freedom of million is a crime!!! so i guess millions of Americans are criminals and your not!!

Once again, New Hampshire proves that it is really the land of kooks and nuts.

And once again, some of the posters on this site prove that they have near total ignorance about how the Constitution of the United States of America actually works.

New Hampshire can not impeach any Federal officer. They could impeach any of their own STATE OFFICIALS. but that is the extent of their power.

In order to Impeach the President of the U.S., it takes a vote by the U.S. House of Representatives. This has actually happened twice in the history of the U.S., with Andrew Johnson and William Jefferson Clinton. Both were impeached by the House.

But, it also takes conviction by the Senate. In both cases, the Sentate refused to convict.

There is zerp possibility of the House impeaching either George Bush or Dick Cheney, so why bother getting yourselves into a tizzy over the possibility?

Oh yes, that's right. You hate them.

You would have preferred to have the guy that actually FLUNKED OUT OF DIVINITY SCHOOL?

You still can't accept the fact that HE LOST>

reply to post by Mentaltraveler


Ya.. kina like the promises Bush made in order to win the votes. I'll take my chances with Obama, after all there are many things to investigate and a whole lotta people that want them investigated.

Hey, this is news to me.


Did it pass?

If not, what happened?

If it's still around, then this will be the reason for me to vote.

Originally posted by OldMedic
Once again, New Hampshire proves that it is really the land of kooks and nuts.

And once again, some of the posters on this site prove that they have near total ignorance about how the Constitution of the United States of America actually works.

New Hampshire can not impeach any Federal officer. They could impeach any of their own STATE OFFICIALS. but that is the extent of their power.

In order to Impeach the President of the U.S., it takes a vote by the U.S. House of Representatives. This has actually happened twice in the history of the U.S., with Andrew Johnson and William Jefferson Clinton. Both were impeached by the House.

But, it also takes conviction by the Senate. In both cases, the Sentate refused to convict.

There is zerp possibility of the House impeaching either George Bush or Dick Cheney, so why bother getting yourselves into a tizzy over the possibility?

Oh yes, that's right. You hate them.

You would have preferred to have the guy that actually FLUNKED OUT OF DIVINITY SCHOOL?

You still can't accept the fact that HE LOST>

Whoa whoa whoa.

Where did this bill started again? In a state senate?

Originally posted by ianr5741




At least 85% of America wants this to happen.

And your statistics are from where?

Jeez you people will jump at anything. Live in NY here, I know maybe 4 people that would actually be interested in wasting their time doing such things.

3 of those people chase ghosts for a living and the other one, well lets just say we are only allowed to visit him on every other weekend, when the doctors think he had a good week!

I would have liked to get past this statement, but after reading this STAT...I knew the rest of the thread were just a bunch of haters, spewing their hate. Actually I was just afraid it was going to get into that whole bogus story about the government being behind 9/11. I was there that faithful day and there is no one in the world that will ever begin to convince me of anything different from what I saw. Already went a few rounds with one of the bigwigs on this sight when he tried in vain to convince me those planes we saw, we heard were nothing more than Halograms.

Sorry, but I had said what I want, and will not be back. Tired of all the negativity and hatred.

Maybe someone who has rad the rest of the thread can send me a U2U and assure me that this thread does not just go into hatred and diatribes against our President and his associates, then I will come back, apologize and read the rest of the thread.

Have a good week.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by Mentaltraveler

 

Ya.. kina like the promises Bush made in order to win the votes. I'll take my chances with Obama, after all there are many things to investigate and a whole lotta people that want them investigated.

Only saw this one because my post came a bit after it.

OBAMA???? I remember his speech when he made the announcement of running. It was brilliant, moving and effective. Since then...every speech has become more radical after the next. His wife, jeez, a page right out of the Black Panther handbook. Now I was worried about Hillary when Bill was in there, can you imagine if SHE was sitting next to the most powerful man in the world???????

reply to post by DaleGribble

Although it may very well be true what you say about it will never happen, still it does my heart good to see that there are indeed people out there that still believe that there is a chance to bring this out of control goverment back under control. That these politicians that were put in power to speak for us, should in fact be held accountable for breaking the laws that were put into effect to protect us simply to empower themselves beyond all reason. You may laugh and give up all hope, but i say it is the people that have given up all hope of our goverment being brought back to what it was origanally meant to be, that is the greatest cause of our country being in the mess that it's in right now. If we all just continue to sit back and succomb to an out of control goverment, we can not expect it to change, have no right to complain, and deserve what we allow to happen. So i say thank you to those that post these threads, i myself will be calling and emailing my congressmen and senators because i will not give up without at least trying.

reply to post by Master_Wii


oh please. So many of you see the folly in the system and wish it to be changed; YET you insist on using the system to "bring to justice" those that you believe to be guilty. Exactly, which judges in which court with which jury will have the bawls to try and convict these people? HMMM? Which politicians followed by which group of highly informed people will help? What you people want is some perceived authority figure behind which you can toss your support to do the work for you whilst you go on with your life. If there was no threat of incarceration from the enforcers (or whatever other consequences you deem unfavorable) I assure you Bush, Cheney and many other politicians would be dead. Not "brought to justice" by some legislation that has to pass thru the very system that needs fixed. This course of action is a waste and if I were one of the "elites" I would simple chuckle at it whilst I continue on with my life. If you display the other cheek to a violent person, they will slap it. Not say, "gee, he is baring his other geek and asking me not to slap; perhaps I should listen. NOT!" WHACK!

Originally posted by indierockalien

I wanted to state up front that I respectfully disagree with only some of what you stated above, namely...,

They did their jobs, I guarantee you. If they hadn't done what they've been PAID LOTS AND LOTS of money to do, they wouldn't have gotten through two terms.

I think it might be possible to 'get through two terms' without doing what your supposed to do. Organizational inertia is very powerful in an organization of the government's magnitude.

You assume that being elected nowadays means that you owe the people something.

There's no assumption involved. You do. There is no other point of being 'elected to serve.' I know this will get me slapped down, but frankly, the notion that "you don't owe the people anything" would make the Presidency a prize, not a job.

There's no doubt that votes were fanaggled, but without the overwhelming support of an unbelievably naive country, the second term wouldn't have happened. The thing is, they've had us in the pocket for so long, they knew it would happen. They most likely didn't have to rig the votes completely.

No arguments here. We seemed to be 'dumbstruck' as to somehow 'compel' an accounting of just what happened. But considering the 'not so publicized' riots on the day the 're-election motorcade' wheeled its way down Pennsylvania Avenue, I think it would be wrong to say that it was 'allowed' to happen.

Back to why I view this as a witch hunt. I view this as a witch hunt because, while I think that Bush and Cheney aren't the greatest guys in the world, I don't think THEY are the real reason things are the way they are. It seems common sense to me (and common sense takes some working at, so don't think I'm playing myself up to be some giant booming voice of reason. I had to figure this out just like anybody else) that the real criminals wouldn't be so blatantly obvious.

Bush and Cheney are probably "bad" people, but they are not to blame for our apathy and ignorance, which is the reason this is all happening right now. We need to work on this.... whenever it is we're done playing the blame game.

I don't think you're wrong at all, BUT, I place a great deal more 'moral obligation' on the President and Vice-President to be the one's who FIGHT THIS FROM THEIR POSITIONS OF POWER. I may not have a lot of people on my side on this, but They are not there to 'go along to get along' they are there to "LEAD".

I can only accept that 'we allowed this...' position as valid if we explicitly point out that "they" (our Prez and VP) "allowed' it to happen despite their 'oath' and public mandate to 'defend and protect' our 'way of life' (since the constitution's "just a G-damned piece of paper".) The perception that we rely on our elected officials this way is so fundamental in my understanding, if they failed to even try to address the issue- they might as well be considered complicit in the execution of the injustice as if by design.

reply to post by Witness2008


Obama for President?

No Thanks..

Not unless he retracts his statement that Australia is one out of a Dozen or so "Rouge Nations", he named during a speech, that he intends to Set streight, by force if need be..lol

Originally posted by Master_Wii
I've held hope that Americans will stand up to the injustice perputrated by our government. This is a start. We need to bring the guilty parties to justice.

Why stop with only Bush & Cheney?
Why not include every Congressman/woman who actually voted "aye" on the Patriot Act before they even read it? After all (in the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights), no group or individual acting in the capacity of either State or Federal government can make (or enforce) "any law abridging" the Rights of the People...Seems to me (& pretty much everybody else) that the Patriot Act is nothing less than a 324-page document that violates every Civil Right on the books! By that very same Amendment, it also renders the Patriot Act automatically null & void as if it had never existed! The fact that it even passed through legislation automatically condems all those who voted in favor of it to commiting a felony offense against the Supreme Law of the Land--ie: The Constitution itself.

And when you consider that it's not only the President that's sworn/affirmed to uphold & act in pursuance of the Constitution

Article 2, Section 1, Clause 9
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

But every person acting within the capacity of both Federal & State levels of government must do so as well, according to

Article 6, Clause 3
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;...

Please note that this Constitutional clause in no way diferentiates between elected officials or appointed officials.

Please note that the Framers of the Constitution specifically requires this oath/affirmation simply to make certain that the terms & conditions within the Constitution become legally binding.

Heck, why even stop there? Anyone & everyone in government (all levels) can simply be asked, "Do you support the United States of America as a Democracy?" Anyone who answers "yes" can be held legally accountable for breeching their oath of office, simply because of

Article 4, Section 4: The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government...

There's no real need to refer to any current events or official actions to come up with specific charges...The Consitution itself already damns all those who've exceeded their authority in any way, shape or form and is even backed up once again in:

Article 2, Section 4
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Of course, with all of the indictments that'll be flying through the air, it might prove a bit difficult to push any other specific charges...Pretty much the entire roster of all three branchs of the Federal & State governments would need to be replaced in order to to accomplish any of this in the first place.

Originally posted by ianr5741
If you don't want impeachment, then you don't want the truth to be known, because that's all it finds out. It isn't punishment. That would be decided later, if the parties are found to be in violation of the law.

True enough...Impeachment isn't punishment (other than the loss of position & public reaction incurred due to Impeachment). However, indictment & trial can always be held afterwards, as per

Article 1, Section 3, Clause 7
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Originally posted by Master_Wii
...and democracy is dead.

The USA should never have been a Democracy in the first place...Check out the reference to Article 4, Section 4 up above.

The Founding Fathers abhorred Democracy in much the same way as the USA feared Communism during the Cold War Era...They were already aware that a Democracy will lead to tyranny (or facism) simply through the efforts of anyone possessing the charisma to sway public opinion (& voting) any way they desire; witness the fall of Classical Greek Democracy (It was already going downhill before the invasions) & (in more modern times) Nazi Germany. The Founding Fathers were aware of the fact that, in a Democracy, it only takes 51% of the votes to remove the Rights of the other 49% of the population!

Originally posted by DaleGribble
get over it. its not gonna happen. and ill bet on that..

I'd be more willing to bet on the possibility that Bush will declare Martial Law & suspend the elections, just so he can stay in Office. Considering that Bush's disapproval rating is way over 50% & there's about 300 million Citizens in this country, that's a lot of pissed-off people who can bring guns to the Capitol (And if they don't have guns, People will improvise; Note the development of martial arts weapons in China was due to the fact that the government forbade weapons to the People so they used farming tools instead). And it would also be a pretty safe bet that most of the State Militias would also get into the mix...
And Bush has been kind enough to get the most of the Military out of the country. Even if he hadn't done that, the entire US Armed Forces represents only about 2% or 3% of the Citizen population.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Nothing an "attack" wont fix. Remember that.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
...attempting a movement for justice, instead of what the rest of america is doing---Just throwing their hands in the air and giving up out of hopelessness.

I'd call this a bit of exaggeration, but not by too much. The People have already come pretty close to exhausting every Constitutionally-approved peaceful method of bringing the government back into line (Check out the info at We The People Foundation for what peaceful methods have been taken), which means there's little else left but violence. The Constitution itself recognizes that violence should be the last resort & I hope it doesn't go that far, but the indications I've seen are getting very close to it. The Founding Fathers were building upon the methods of implementation of the Magna Carta when they made certain to include the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights.

I must point out that the website link mentioned is a political activist site, but I'm not asking anyone to join or support them...I'm merely mentioning them as a source of information. Their primary stated purpose is to educate the public about the Constitutional Republic that the USA should be & inform the public of the atrocities being commited against the USA by its own government; They are strictly non-partisan, as far as "republican or democrat" goes. If they represent any party at all, it would be Constitutionalist...But since the Constitution is framed as the Supreme Law of the Land, they're more concerned with using the Law against those who violate it than to use it for strictly political purposes.

Originally posted by Witness2008
There are rumors floating about Obama if president would have his A.G investigate the Bush administration for war crimes. Guess who I'm voting for.

Well, considering that Bully Boy Bush & his Corporate Crony Gang have been committing so many felony crimes against the Constitution (despite all of their sworn oaths to obey it), and also considering that the Patriot Act mentions Constitutionalists as one of the "groups" labeled as "potential terrorists", please forgive me for reserving my vote to the one candidate (in any party) who has shown a consistently impeccable record of living up to his Constitutional Oath--Ron Paul. Even if he doesn't make it past the Primaries, I'll just use a "write-in" vote.
BTW, if any voting Americans are concerned about the controversies surrounding the use of "paperless voting machines," simply request for an Absentee Ballot...That'll bypass the whole problem! Just make sure you get it in time so that you can get it mailed in before the elections are over.

Originally posted by Gramafaloon
Fer cryin' out loud people, we get video of UFO-OVNI's on this sight! Can't we get some incriminating dirt on the likes of Herr Cheney or Comandant Wolfowits?

Well, I think I've already covered a few of their crimes which would supply enough dirt to bury them deeper than Pompei, simply by looking at the Constitution & backed by public record for evidence...Any other dirt that can be dug up would just be "icing on the cake" after what I've already mentioned. I've found a lot of dirt simply by looking through the website I linked to, up above. The beauty of it is...It's all clean dirt in that it's all a matter of public record already!

----------Continued Below--------

----------Concluded from Above-----

Originally posted by DamnedDirtyApes
I am all in favor of bringing the power back to the people. I just don't think the structures in place will allow it.

The only structure needed is the one originally set out by the Constitution...The Constitution sets out the obligations, duties & (more importantly) limitations on what the government is allowed to do. The Bill of Rights sets out what the Citizenry can & should do to keep its servant government in line.

Never forget that the government actually fears The People & for good reason; the combined power of the government & its military is only a very small fraction of what The People can accomplish. What the government fears, it must try to control & it's for that very reason that the Constitution was written in the form it takes.

This is why the government must seize its control subtly at first, nit-picking at the Supreme Law in very small ways that only slightly erode Citizen Rights...Once a small, barely-noticed breech has been made, it just clears the way for other small breeches, accumulating over time until the Citizens finally wake up one day & see that they've been consistently violated over a period of generations.

But even throughout all of the known history of human civilization, such governments have always been subjected to either revolution or conquest. The Founding Fathers were the first to actually form a new government that would put the People in Power right from the very start. In short, the Constitutional Republic of America was the true New World Order (People over Government)...It's just that the Old World Order (Government over People) slowly corrupted it into a reflection of itself.

If the USA failed, it's mostly because the Old World Order couldn't stand to see the ultimate truth all along--That the Power is & always has been in the hands of the People to create & destroy governments whenever they saw fit.

Originally posted by DamnedDirtyApes
If what they get amounts to slaps on the wrist, where does that leave us?

The Constitution evolved from a long history of the People establishing their Rights regardless of governmental abuses...From the Magna Carta to Declaration of Independence & from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. They all speak in close detail where it leaves us...But the most succinct single-sentence statement I know of is contained within the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence (quoted below, with the bold emphasis being mine):

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The body of the Constitution & the Bill of Rights provide other details on how to accomplish what the Declaration of Independence actually declares.


All of the quotes from the US Documents above were obtained from these links:
US Constitution
Declaration of Independence

Originally posted by DaleGribble
i cant help but laugh every time a thread like this comes up. btw there are at least 200 already on this same topic.

Perhaps...But I've had a few months of abscence from ATS so forgive me for posting here before I've seen those other 200 threads.