What's the deal with Wiccians

I understand this might be a little complex for you, but GOD is more then ONE, GOD is everything.

But, in your post, you keep using God in the singular form. Many religions believe in more than one God. God, in my opinion, is not everything. The gods are just a part of nature, as we are, with the same fears, hopes and anxieties.

And no, it is not too complex.

Originally posted by robertfenix
I understand this might be a little complex for you, but GOD is more then ONE, GOD is everything.

If god is everything, then everything is really one thing that is refered to by the name god. And there is no need to be bitchy, I asked a simple question.

GOD is singular to very most basic form of the word. There are no multiple GOD's just like there is no GODDESS and GOD, ying and yang, good and bad (to a point).

Okay here is the thing, living things gain knowledge whether animal or human or otherwise. Some forms have a more complex agenda ie Humans, while Plants have a simpler realm of knowledge. BUT a plant is an animate living "thing" that responds to GOD. A plant can adapt, change around its structure, all in an attempt to survive. Why does a plant, turn toward the sun, how does it do this? Why does it let lower branches die off only to regrow other branches higher up. How does a plant survive when the conditions of the soil change or when water become scarce.

Anyways the point is each living being was given instructions by GOD to learn, and in turn this knowledge is gained by GOD to use at its discretion. Whether to modify another beings path or correct some repeating error etc. GOD only knows by the experience of other living beings. GOD is not a living being that can be seperated out of the enviroment to stand by itself. Because everything that exists, GOD is. GOD would only be able to "stand alone" if nothing else existed. So think of everything you know, all this data, being connected to the next living being and so on and so on. GOD exists only because everything else exists. GOD can effect every piece of matter because everything exists. ie Person A prays to GOD for guidance. Person B has experience how to deal with Person A's problem but Person A and B never met. GOD takes Person B's experience and drops it into Person A's mind. Person A accepts this "new" experience as guidance from GOD. If you stop praying to GOD or communicating with GOD then GOD is unable to help other people who are seeking GOD. So for every being that "turns away" from the one real GOD. Another being loses its connection to have its prayer answered.

Its like having an enormous database, but no way to search or retrieve data. Its just data at that point and has no value. It can be recorded ie a person lives and expierences something but after that it is of no value. Because GOD can not use it.

Although in the case of GOD, GOD can use all knowledge at his discretion regardless of whether or not you as a person communicate with GOD. Just you lose out on the benefit of the "group" experience which is everything in existence.

I'll chime in as another Shamanic Wiccan and ditto the other Wiccans. I've been practicing for over 30 years and have been an advisor to covens and to some of the groups writing for Witchvox. The idea of us taking over the world or being Illuminati is just silly.

Witchvox is a good site; so is www.religioustolerance.org

Another simpler example is that to every "being" there is an upload and a download. Just like the internet

You choose how much participation you want to be a part of. Although in the case of "uploading" you have no choice.

Like shared computing, the SETI project etc. You chose to be a part of the network, if you want to gain knowledge beyond that which you can experience. And like the SETI project you never get to "see" all the data.

If you choose to close that connection then you limit yourself to how much you can "learn". You lose the power of what GOD is.

YOU LOSE.

Um, k, what ever you say rob.

Anyways, Wiccans elieve in the Goddess, who is the moon, woman, childbirth, so forth. Then they believe in Hurn, the Sun, man, animals, so forth. The Goddess is sometimes a beautiful woman shining in a glorius light, and other times she is an old woman, wise with time and experience. Hurn is also known as the horned god, or a centaur with horns. Pan, from greek mythology is also a way to see the form of Hurn. Back then most animals hunted had horns, and since Hurn was the god of animals, hunting, so forth, they figured he would have horns or antlers. Of course, the christians, unlike the description in the bible as a fallen angel witht he feathers torn from his wings, use Hurn as the symbol of satan, for at the time they were competing with Witchcraft for followers. When they won, they killed millions by burning, drowning, beheading, so forth, persecuted the witches, who at the time were the doctors, nurses, pharmicists, and psychologist of the time, which brought death and plague and disease to Europe. Yep, when the christians won, taking a mint and goosefoot tea for a stomach ache got you killed.

Anyways, that is all, bye!

This is what I don't understand. I know people who are "Christians". By this I mean they read the Bible, pray, go to church, etc. Yet they have no tolarance of other religions - like Wicca. I don't understand how people, Christian or otherwise, can be so narrow minded. My mom is a born again and I love her to pieces but she would love for me to be "saved". I tried and it just didn't fit. I have a boss who is also "Christian" and the way he treats people is so UNchristian! I wonder what he would do if I hung a pentagram by my desk. He would freak but it's okay for him to have Christian symbols on his desk.

My point is this - who is to say which religion is "right"? I think everyone is right. And if your beliefs get you through the day, who is anyone to judge?

There are many reasons for the secrecy surrounding Wicca. Persecution by society and family is one, I hae known several Wiccans disowned by thier families, attacked, bombed, ect by Christian lunatics. Another reason is that what we do or believe will seem strange to people, or idiots who know no better will screw with our beliefs.

Just about every Wiccan I know is very much against an NWO. The idea is against natural laws of creation, destruction, and renewal. Another reason is that Wiccans are very strong individualists. They often live on the fringes of society, if only in spirit. We are very good at hiding, we have to be. We get persecuted ALOT.

Wiccans personal beliefs center around nature. Each person has thier own interpretation.

Out of the broom closet Wiccans usually are hippie femenists. But they are the tip of the ice berg. You have know idea who is wiccan. We are in the armed forces, in vast number. I know airlline pilots, IT geeks, construction workers, even lawyers who are. But our beliefs are very personal. Unlike Christians and Muslims, we dont believe our way is the only way, and thus, we do not have missionaries trying to spread it, we dont preach it. Our temples are our homes, gardens, the woods, or desolate wild areas. Many of us have no covens, we practice alone.

No, we are not involved in the NWO. Hell,we barely tolerate civilization and govornemnt in its current state. It is important you dont confuse us with other groups: Hermetic mages, new agers, satanists, freemasons, these said groups ractice various forms of "magick" like we do, but they are of a totally different philosophy than us, with different spiritual goals, ideals, morals, and structure.

Originally posted by robertfenix
I have thoughts of burning Wicci at the stake. But alas I favor life over death. As GOD has instructed me to do.

BUT I see people of the Wicca faith as feable and very impressionable, lead astray by the powers that wish to decieve.

I feel only pitty that they will never know GOD (while being among the living) and the powerful works that GOD could make in their lives.

TYPICAL CLOSEMINDED HATEMONGER XTIAN, BUT WHAT CAN I SAY...WE DO HAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGIOUS WORSHP HERE IN AMERICA.

BLESSED BE

Yes, and that should answer and prove my point: why Wiccans are secretive about thier religion. Because morons like Robertfenix exist out there who still live in the dark ages. He is basically on the same level as the Taliban and other Islamic trash who seem to favor backwards superstitious societies built on book rantings of crazed loons in the wilderness hopped up on too much hashish.

I have seen Wiccans firebombed and thier cars destroyed for doing little more than opening up a pagan bookstore and hosting local meetings for other pagans who wanted to meet and worship with each other. I know of young wiccans in highschool who were beaten up by "god fearing xtians" because they were pagan.

Robertfenix, this is why I have no compassion for Xtian missionaroes and followers who get slaughtered in other countries: oppresors are as oppresors do. Your god is NOT a god who celebrates life, in your own holy babble I can think of several instances, from the great floods to Sodom and Gomorah, to the slaughter of the Caananites, where your god condones and actively engages in the total annihilation and genocide of entire peoples simply because they dont collapse on thier knees and offer him groveling obiesance. Your god condones the murder of "witches, adulterers, homosexuals, the blood sacrifice of animals to appease his vicous bloodthirst. Your god is not a god of love and forgiveness, he is a god of narcisism. he is a manifestation of the dark god, the part of the divine Wiccans see as being the yang, the darkness, the shadow of the human soul.

Your god tortured and slaughtered Jobs entire family because the devil made a bet with him (I thought gambling was sin? Not if god does it). According to your bible, god let his faithful servant Job not only witness the entire slaughter of his whole family, but he took away all his wealth, status, and allowed Job to become inflicted with horrid diseases and painful boils. All because he wanted to show the devil he could do whatever he wanted and his human slaves would still grovel in thier pain. Your god actually was CHATTING with his devil nemesis. letting hsi enemy totally destroy his servants. That is a god of EGOTISM. So what if he gave Job his wealth back and a new family? Can a new family replace the old one totally? That god allowed his demonic enemy to kill Jobs innocent daughters and sons just to show how whipped his servants were?

But, I allow you your twisted, psychotic masochistic hateful metally damaging religous beliefs, because, mine tell me that all things, good and bad, opposites, creative and destructive, even the loony Xtians, have a right to exist because its all part of the balance. However, should you or your ilk try and burn this elf, you shall find that my beliefs do not prohibit me from returning you to the cycle of nature to feed the worms.

If god was all powerful and could create everything, why could he not create for himself a sense of self esteem? Why does your god need the groveling self debasing servitude of mere mortals?

Originally posted by robertfenix
The only GOD that exists. The one, GOD, anything and eveything, the begining and the ending, the creator and the destroyer.

GOD

AND THEN THE MANY MORTALS UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH DECIDE TO DISTORT THE BASIC CONCEPT TO THEIR OWN EGOTISTICAL SPIN ON SOMETHING THIS PURE AND SIMPLE .

THE GOLDEN RULE:

"DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU"

THE WICCAN REDE:

"AN' IT HARM NONE , DO WHAT THOU WILT"

THE THELEMIC LAW:
DO WHAT THOU WILL SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW (LOVE IS THE LAW, LOVE UNDER WILL)

BLESSED BE

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Yes, and that should answer and prove my point: why Wiccans are secretive about thier religion. Because morons like Robertfenix exist out there who still live in the dark ages. He is basically on the same level as the Taliban and other Islamic trash who seem to favor backwards superstitious societies built on book rantings of crazed loons in the wilderness hopped up on too much hashish.

PRAISE BE TO FREE SPEECH, AMEN !

I have seen Wiccans firebombed and thier cars destroyed for doing little more than opening up a pagan bookstore and hosting local meetings for other pagans who wanted to meet and worship with each other. I know of young wiccans in highschool who were beaten up by "god fearing xtians" because they were pagan.

Robertfenix, this is why I have no compassion for Xtian missionaroes and followers who get slaughtered in other countries: oppresors are as oppresors do. Your god is NOT a god who celebrates life, in your own holy babble I can think of several instances, from the great floods to Sodom and Gomorah, to the slaughter of the Caananites, where your god condones and actively engages in the total annihilation and genocide of entire peoples simply because they dont collapse on thier knees and offer him groveling obiesance. Your god condones the murder of "witches, adulterers, homosexuals, the blood sacrifice of animals to appease his vicous bloodthirst. Your god is not a god of love and forgiveness, he is a god of narcisism. he is a manifestation of the dark god, the part of the divine Wiccans see as being the yang, the darkness, the shadow of the human soul.

Your god tortured and slaughtered Jobs entire family because the devil made a bet with him (I thought gambling was sin? Not if god does it). According to your bible, god let his faithful servant Job not only witness the entire slaughter of his whole family, but he took away all his wealth, status, and allowed Job to become inflicted with horrid diseases and painful boils. All because he wanted to show the devil he could do whatever he wanted and his human slaves would still grovel in thier pain. Your god actually was CHATTING with his devil nemesis. letting hsi enemy totally destroy his servants. That is a god of EGOTISM. So what if he gave Job his wealth back and a new family? Can a new family replace the old one totally? That god allowed his demonic enemy to kill Jobs innocent daughters and sons just to show how whipped his servants were?

But, I allow you your twisted, psychotic masochistic hateful metally damaging religous beliefs, because, mine tell me that all things, good and bad, opposites, creative and destructive, even the loony Xtians, have a right to exist because its all part of the balance. However, should you or your ilk try and burn this elf, you shall find that my beliefs do not prohibit me from returning you to the cycle of nature to feed the worms.

If god was all powerful and could create everything, why could he not create for himself a sense of self esteem? Why does your god need the groveling self debasing servitude of mere mortals?

My personal involvement in Paganism is driven by my heritage
and my ancestory (big driving forces on the psyche)

for some Wicca is the 'cauldren'....
for me it is Romuva

the world, the men of the Christian God have created,
is a DYSTOPIA to me (i can't speak for other Pagans)
~~~~

several posts formed a path, Pisky>nathraq 'links'>MTGOmajickwitch 'merry-meet'>Byrd>Skadi... Psycho, Shaman...
yes, i think we - today- must emulate the Ninja, 'being stealthy as it were'...between the modern Crusade and Fatwas and all...might get us all in a PINCH/PREDICUMENT ??
well, all of youse, journey well

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by riffraffalunas]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
There are many reasons for the secrecy surrounding Wicca. Persecution by society and family is one, I hae known several Wiccans disowned by thier families, attacked, bombed, ect by Christian lunatics. Another reason is that what we do or believe will seem strange to people, or idiots who know no better will screw with our beliefs.

Just about every Wiccan I know is very much against an NWO. The idea is against natural laws of creation, destruction, and renewal. Another reason is that Wiccans are very strong individualists. They often live on the fringes of society, if only in spirit. We are very good at hiding, we have to be. We get persecuted ALOT.

Wiccans personal beliefs center around nature. Each person has thier own interpretation.

Out of the broom closet Wiccans usually are hippie femenists. But they are the tip of the ice berg. You have know idea who is wiccan. We are in the armed forces, in vast number. I know airlline pilots, IT geeks, construction workers, even lawyers who are. But our beliefs are very personal. Unlike Christians and Muslims, we dont believe our way is the only way, and thus, we do not have missionaries trying to spread it, we dont preach it. Our temples are our homes, gardens, the woods, or desolate wild areas. Many of us have no covens, we practice alone.

No, we are not involved in the NWO. Hell,we barely tolerate civilization and govornemnt in its current state. It is important you dont confuse us with other groups: Hermetic mages, new agers, satanists, freemasons, these said groups ractice various forms of "magick" like we do, but they are of a totally different philosophy than us, with different spiritual goals, ideals, morals, and structure.

I'm not one for "me too" posts, but..

Thank you Skadi, very well said.

Peace,
BG

When Did ATS get so many closed minded people???