Civilisation X: Eternity Restored

How can we classify something that is timeless?

For instance if all time is simultaneous then only in the direct moment would the civilisation exist. And if the moment is the direct route to information then all information in the past, present, future is based on this.

Also if we can gauge a civilisations age, how do we do it, we are placing numbers here that OnlyThose existant in that moment would know.

How can you gauge the age of one civilisation through all, it would have to be catalogued through the ages up to this date. And if pieces are lost that were existant how meticulous is the account of information pertaining to the results. One element could throw a civilsation out of existance.

Who chooses these attentions to detail based on a system that only catagorizes its results on what is known throughout, if the mind is the gateway to other worlds then why do we deny the spirit growth.


My theory, your theory or anybodies theory is just as valid until we place it into the Earths Mind then we have just created a fact based on consensus

Why are our limitations in science limiting our view of reality, (the true) that is.

I would say our calculations of many civilisations need to be addressed.

Reasons why:

1. We cannot gauge a civilisations actions with our own system.

2.Results based on conclusions based in a world map view doesn't apply.

3.Change is the result of Growth.

4.Rules and laws apply differently in a different (timeframe)= mind/frame

5.Characteristics based on our own society through devolopment doesn't mean it is correct to apply it Universally.

6.Many civilisations overlapped each other, but the degree of age cannot be gauged through a technological means. Having technology doesn't make a civilisation older then the other or more advanced.

7.My number is just as good as any other is because we don't have solid proof we have valued theories, that is it, no proof of the existance of any civilisation we choose to interprete.

8.Those civilisations in time could be nothing more then a fairy tale made up by man to suit his ego.

9.Civilisations are only a moment existing in the eternal mind.

10.The cause of any civilisation could be the root of demise.



This is what I get.

How old is the aborignal civilisation?
Answer:Three million years old.


Look at our own civilisation, which varies do to continents and countries and languages.

There are many different cultures based on different beliefs, cultures, ethnicities.

If our civilisation were wiped today. And let's say down the road, only one state lived and could tell about it what would they say and why?

They would have to talk about only what comes to mind if they have never visited outside that state. They could try and configure some type of map replicating the world. But how accurate would it be. You only have a X number of people in the state. But now you finish you realise there are parts missing or not in the right places. Also there seems to be some differences of opinions reguarding the where abouts of certain continents.
And a lot of what is missing comes from the lost in translation.

And let's say that we don't know the cause of devastation other then when you awoke nothing seemed the same but challenges is the only thing you see ahead. Where do you go? what do you do? do you do anything?







Really are our Sciences, Anthropology, Archeology, physics, mechanics, mathematics, geneology, forensics, medical and Astronomy enough to tell the tale of a lost civilisation.

You be the judge.

What if you came to a civilisation that was not suppose to exist and does before the time frame you can even interprete the existance of the civilisation.

For instance when the Native Americans saw the Mayflower sailing in did they actually see it, or did it not appear to them because it was not in their frame of mind. Would they not categorize it because they have no fields of reference to pull from other then imagination and there dreams. Or would they try to make it valid through some time of field theory where they had a vision. Would the mind dismiss it as just rediculous or abnormal and hide it in the subconscious.


Would a person from another time frame have the same appearance then what we would think they would have to be.

Could you pick out a wise man out of a crowd of three million.

What happens when Time is Erased and the Seasons, months, and years are no longer congruent with the whole three dimensional reality based on old thought patterns?

Encarta Dictionary
time (noun)
1.system of distinguishing events

a dimension that enables two identical events occuring at the same point in space to be distinguished, measured by the interval between the events.

2. period with limits
a limited period during which an action, process, or condition exists or takes place

.elapsed time

3.method of measuring intervals
a system for measuring intervals of time

.sidereal time
.Central Daylight Time

4.minute of hour

the minute , hour, or similar measurement as indicated by a clock

what time is it?

5.time is a causative force
time concieved as a force capable of acting on people and objects



6.moment something occurs



7.suitable moment


8unallocated period
a period that is not allocated for a specific purpose.

9.period needed
a period required, allocated, or taken to complete an activity

10. period with particular quality
a period, activity, or occasion that has a particular quality or characteristic.

11.appointed moment
a designated or customary moment or period at which something is done or takes place.

12.closing time

13.interval
a limited but unspecified period

14.historical period
a period in history, often characterized by a particular event or person

15.the here and now
the present as distinguished from the past and future

16.geologic division
Geology a chronological division of geologic history

17.anticipated moment
a moment in which an important event such as a birth or death is expected to happen

18.somebody's lifetime
a period during which somebody is alive, especially the most active or productive period in somebody's life

19. appreticeship period
a period during which somebody is an apprentice

20. prison term
serve time

21.military service
Military a term of military service

22.season
a period during which the climatic conditions prevail.

23.instance
a seperate occasion of a recurring event

24. tempo of music
MUSIC the relative speed at which a musical composition is played


25.music beat
MUSIC the number of beats per measure of a musical composition

26. period worked
the period during a day or week that somebody works

27.pay rate
a rate of pay

28.playing period

SPORTS a period of play in a game

29.Same as timeout (noun) (sense 1)

There's more you get the point.

With the very definition that make's up our society is it enough to make the event Realistic. These definitions are based on time. So what happens when that civilisation colapses?

What happens when there aren't words or definitions to describe the living Civilisations in the right (mindframe category).


What happens when your Sciences fail to grasp the new reality you live in?

How old are you if you can't make heads or tales of yourself let alone a civilisation?

And with time dismissed are you even in a category of the known?

How can you know you aren't exactly where you left off, from the age of innocence?

How high does my light go?

Am I even ALIVE?

There is a fog all around me and all I know is a feeling.


[edit on 8-4-2008 by menguard]

reply to post by menguard



I am all for rethinking everything (even though it may lead us right back to where we began), so you get a star for that alone...

And I definitely believe in the non-linearity of time.

Anyway, I think you would be interested in Fomenko's theory about the actual "age" of our history (if you haven't read it already, that is).

Anatoly Fomenko (books)

I think his theory has been discussed here, a long time ago, but I don't think a fresh mention here will do anyone any harm. :-)

reply to post by Vanitas


No I haven't, but I had somethings in the back burner of my being burning the desire to write on.

Will check it out.

Hey Vanitas, anything else you would like to right into Modern history that I forgot to touch on.

Hey Vanitas, anything else you would like to right into Modern history that I forgot to touch on.

I'll think about it.
(And I mean it. )

I know that since I was born, I have percieved my reality through bodily senses, which I find describes the scientific understanding of reality, and to me, given the endless frequencies that science has begun to probe, and that we physically experience this reality through such a narrow band.. I find it very limiting, in that the consesus of reality to me seems narrow and doesn't really hold up to the big picture, the universe and its complexities. Does that make sense?

Strip away all scientific education from me, and I would look at the stars as an enigma... points of intense light of a form or function I could not possibly interpret. I'd look at the sun... and know that somehow it psychologically makes me happy... it phyiscally makes me comfortable when its in the right position.. and that somehow it is the magic force which causes plants to grow, which I eat to sustain my body, the thing that I feel and navigate my world through. I would think the sun is the most signifigant and powerful thing in my world. I imagine water would blow my mind as well.

And whether it be ego or a narrow perception but it seems every civilization that we've been taught about has boasted to know the right answer to every question, about everything in their existance.

At the end of the day.. I feel physically... I have an internal voice that I identify with, - it is the director of this movie.. which have emotions intertwined with it. And this feeling of time... knowing that past events are just simply... not something I am experiencing in the moment. And future events.. are unknown, but are not of the moment.

I'm losing my thought here... Simply.. I'm trying to say, what the hell do we really know... the scientific, religious, spiritual and societal consesus is too narrow to define the whole. How can we even understand anything unless it is in the direct moment?

Furthermore, what drives us so much to know?

I could describe to you what I used to be like say..10 years ago, in a narrow simplified description.. but I can't begin to percieve it.

We shouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions, and perhaps our own laws and confinements of reality that seem to be set in stone through consensus are actually limiting us.

I percieve in the moment, and I don't really know what else to say.

I hope some of that made sense. Its hard to describe the though. I know this.. I am hungry, and i require sun light fueld objects to sustain functionality.

Seriously, what do we really know?

A thought I had...

We experience our reality through such a narrow frequency, but we know of others that exist below and above it, electro-magnetically...


Music is vibrations, frequencies... wait a minute.. side-thought.. to appreciate music we need those time intervals, its what makes it music, its the pattern. Each sound effects us differently and I guess you could say the pattern / arrangement / order is almost alchemical. Mantras if you will... arrange the sounds the right way and it has a certain effect.

Ok so that was just playing on the whole time thing, but back to sound / music and frequency. Ok... say there is a song that makes me really happy... or there is a song that makes me unstable or uncomfortable... it can be transmuted into a radio band of frequency... a radio picks it up, and that is how I am able to hear the music and interpret the pattern.

But even if there is no radio to recieve radio band frequencies... the frequencies are still there... so tell me this... even though we do not sense the music... would it still effect us?

Think about that one, and then think about the vibrational chaos which is the electromagnetic spectrum... Radio signals alone... they are everywhere..

This is interesting, because you think about how easily and effectively you can be programmed.

Airing a radio broadcast with a negative message is just as negative whether you 'hear' it (physical narrow band vibrational perception), or if you don't hear it. What do you think?

But in regards to music, and how it relates to time... and tie it into what has already been previously discussed:

.... Perhaps its not the intervals that matter so much... but rather the pattern, the arrangment... Each concept seems equally important to produce a universal.. alchemical electro-magnetic response that resonates through time and space.

hmm..

EDIT: to add a couple missed words.

[edit on 9-4-2008 by CavemanDD]

I hope nobody sees me on this thread agreeing with the outcast fringe lunatics.

I imagine the schoolboy trying to explain to his history-teacher: "But Sir, there is no history. At least not THE history. Every viewpoint of the infinite will experience another variation of history. There are many variations of history playing out right now, however, they are all actually playing out here and now in a single-pointedness of the infinite".

If the point is that each person has their own personal part/view of history, that is correct. History is a process of discovery based on rapidly decreasing dimensions.

An example used by Professor Boggs while I was studying was.

We were in a large lecture hall - he threw a pencil at a very large white slab of wall and then noted the impact point.

He then said, this point represents the amount of material we have recovered from all the man-made and man-influenced material from the 100,000 years ago. From it we must build a history of that time.

I hope nobody sees me on this thread agreeing with the outcast fringe lunatics.

You've agreed with me on a number of previous occasions, so it's too late to worry about that...






[edit on 9-4-2008 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I hope nobody sees me on this thread agreeing with the outcast fringe lunatics.

I imagine the schoolboy trying to explain to his history-teacher: "But Sir, there is no history. At least not THE history. Every viewpoint of the infinite will experience another variation of history. There are many variations of history playing out right now, however, they are all actually playing out here and now in a single-pointedness of the infinite".

You think history will remeber you being here? having this discussion?

Maybe you never came here, and you're not here yet.. because the event of your being is not yet in our direct moment.

We're all lunatics. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial! ha.

How can we even understand anything unless it is in the direct moment?

Furthermore, what drives us so much to know?

/snip/

I percieve in the moment, and I don't really know what else to say.

I do hope this doesn't come across as patronising, but...

Indeed.
Not only that, but the ONLY way to actually "interfere" with this present (individual) reality - to change it, to manipulate it, if you will - is through this moment, in this moment.
(I think failure to do so may be the principal reason why so many good paths towards "mastery" of one's reality fall short simply because people don't stay anchored in THIS moment long enough to effect the change.)

What drives us to "know"?
My answer would be: the quest for God.
It always is.
Every endeavour, every philosophy, every creation, every urge is actually the urge to know G-d, the Unknowable.

(Yes, even for atheists. Would they be "atheists" at all if they hadn't thought - long and hard or, more likely, just with passion - about it? ; )




[edit on 9-4-2008 by Vanitas]

Existant dimensions of ones soul connected to the mindframe of thought processed through the elaboration of oscillation speed and resonance of energy traveling through strings of light connecting the will to the divine thread of knowing.


The balance to the change within the internal circuits of the current of change. A thought processing my mind in eternal space.


.

Seriously, what do we really know?

Socrates - the father of all grey-celled thinkers, according to the Greeks - cracked that one many moons ago:

NOTHING.

That's the only thing he knew he knew.

2300 years later the answer is still the same.
(Certainly on a general, "societal" level. Individuals may know a lot - but the catch is, the moment they become rationally aware of knowing - they stop knowing. )

reply to post by Vanitas


When my mind is open and free only a thought is silent but existant the unlearning has taught me to unlearn the path of knowing and be.

Freedom exists within while freedom to the soul is to grow around you

Originally posted by Vanitas


(Yes, even for atheists. Would they be "atheists" at all if they hadn't thought - long and hard or, more likely, just with passion - about it? ; )

I agree with you on that one. I'd tell an athiest.. if you really believe that there is nothing divine, that your reality is so limited and you believe it will very shortly come to an end, then why do you even get up in the morning... why do you even put on clothes and actually...care about what clothes to wear. Why do anything!?

Just going with the flow... or not aware of oneself? Either way, they still all live in the moment like the rest of us, and have ambitions and a desire for knowledge. To stop questioning ones existence is either egotistical in the sence that they know 'all that is', or just living in ignorance.

I'm not talking about believing this or that, i'm talking about complete denial, completely ignoring the question itself. To say "i'm not sure" is one thing... and thats an answer I really respect.. but to say "there is nothing else" well... I can't say I agree with that.


Anyways.... more back on the main topic... history itself.. to us, is comprised of amounts of information which try to paint a picture of what it was like to exist in that moment. But still... it even more limited then our own perception of reality! Which is also very very limited. Its like... You could ask me a personal question about yourself...and decisions you made and have me analyse them..but I could only analyse them with the information you've given me.. i could not take in account exactly how you experienced the moment... every feeling physically, conciously and subconciously and beyond.

History tries to paint a picture of what things were like... but in my oppinion it doesn't scratch the surface... and those people, in that moment.. their history and understanding of things went by the same principles.

Even if we all believed we were created in a "big bang".. that would mean that "in the begginning"... we all had one point of origin, and that what makes us has travelled great distances and taken on many forms... who really know what happened...

How can we really know anything other then the direct moment? I just don't know! .. haha.. but yeah... for me.. i know it is the quest to KNOW god.

Since young I always thought the time is an interesting thing. It is a great creation yet limiting and fearful factor.
We fear aging, briefness of elation or length of pain/suffering, even death because of this linear time. But remember without linear time, our physical can't function and keep records that could be pass down physically.
Also, I felt like an abandoned child during childhood. Not that I have bad parents, they are wonderful but I just feel this separateness from them and everyone else too. But don't misunderstand, I am a very happy and sociable kid. It just feel like everyone is trying to form meaningful relationships through our mental identification of them due to the work of this linear time. We want to have the 'so-called' meaningful lives by forming interesting relationships with people we meet.
Now thinking back of the abandoned kid mentality, silly it sounded then but I am beginning to understand the deeper meaning of such feelings with each passing years. Wholeness comes to me only in moments of showing unconditional love, this really empowers me.
Actually relationships are formed out of fear or loneliness and the perception of linear time. It is very normal of course but the thing is I feel we can also find this wholeness from within ourselves in a non-egoistic way. Relationships could also be formed in a certain way due to our subconscious desire to 'settle something'. That is why different people give you different feeling and hence the subconscious need to form a certain kind of relationship. Unless we understand the purpose of this 'need', it will always manifest itself again because as long as we don't understand or aware of the subconsciousness, it will always remain SUB!

Originally posted by Hanslune
If the point is that each person has their own personal part/view of history, that is correct. History is a process of discovery based on rapidly decreasing dimensions.

If the point is about 'a single-pointedness of the infinite playing all events at the same point' is also correct in my opinion and understanding. I don't really know how to support his point but if one meditates or just simply silenced their minds, simply to give up linear time, you might notice that point made.
It was a point that I give possibility to as a kid but now I am almost certain it happens that way although it is just for knowledge, no point arguing and debating for years and forget our lives at this moment.

Originally posted by menguard
How can we classify something that is timeless?

For instance if all time is simultaneous then only in the direct moment would the civilisation exist. And if the moment is the direct route to information then all information in the past, present, future is based on this.

Also if we can gauge a civilisations age, how do we do it, we are placing numbers here that OnlyThose existant in that moment would know.

How can you gauge the age of one civilisation through all, it would have to be catalogued through the ages up to this date. And if pieces are lost that were existant how meticulous is the account of information pertaining to the results. One element could throw a civilsation out of existance.

Perhaps I missed part of the point, which is entirely possible, but if you operate on the assumption of "no time" most of the questions that follow are sort of beside the point.

Not only do you not then go on to try and "date" or "age" things if time does not exist, you also cease to discuss movement, and its related concepts. (Evolution, the "rise" of a civilization, etc.) Nothing at all could "go out of existence" that would require time.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Perhaps I missed part of the point, which is entirely possible, but if you operate on the assumption of "no time" most of the questions that follow are sort of beside the point.

Not only do you not then go on to try and "date" or "age" things if time does not exist, you also cease to discuss movement, and its related concepts. (Evolution, the "rise" of a civilization, etc.) Nothing at all could "go out of existence" that would require time.

I think that timeless shouldn't be taken too literally. It means that existence of all forms belong to this ultimate big dimension which don't go in accordance to our human linear time or any time of any kind.
Of course we should go on dating and such or else those who actually live in a timeless mental world without true understanding all the time might well actually end up in a mental institute.