Life on mars this is it! no doubt!

Originally posted by sensfan
Has anyone considered that the pics we are getting from mars are viewed by 1000's of scientists and other experts from around the world, not just NASA folks, and if there was any chance that there were in fact signs of life, be it alive, or dead, we would have heard something from the scientific community by now?
:-)

I agree.
This specific image's caption reads "North Polar Site to Monitor Defrosting on Dunes" and i think that what we see is a North Polar Site with Defrosting dunes, because i have zero reasons to believe it's not.
The defrosting process may generate very odd resultys, epecially if the soil is dark and/or sandly. But the caption also say that not only we are looking at defrosting processes, but even that it's a Site to monitor such processes, hence it's also an EXPECTED process.
NOw despite some of the darken areas look to have a 3D shape, the absence of shadows says that they aren't:
besides now we are focusing only to the the "tree shaped" items, but there are items which explain better what we are looking at:
here's is visible that the formation of the left follows the soil, as i would expect in a defrosting process, and the dots on the right show that in those points the defrosting process is less advanced.
This is what i see, of course i may be wrong.

And there are many other points in which the process is less advanced:

What deceives in these images is that the areas in which the defrosting process is more advanced, the actual perspective of the dunes is unvisible/barely visible: and what looks to be flat is, actually, rounded, and what looks to be 3d is, actually, flat.

Just my two cents


[edit on 10/4/2008 by internos]

Nice work Internos! Thanks for stepping in

After looking at those images a lot last night, and tracing out the patterns, I think I've come to the same conclusion. The 3-D effect appears to be an illusion, albeit a convincing one. Your gifs show this well.

I think what really got me confused was the fact that in the jpg version of the images, much of the background dunes tend to 'white out' in places. Some of these spots are right behing the 'objects'. Those were the ones that had me the most confused. After seeing the higher resolution images online and zooming in to the limit of clarity, much more detail in the surrounding landscape emerges.

At any rate, as much as I have tried and tested the 'tree hypothesis' it doesn't seem to be the case here.

Oh well, maybe next time!

-WFA

I thought that I had seen that image before.

I did, and I did saw another image from that area, the image with the landslids.

So, this is the result of having two images from the same area and from different dates.

From 3 February 2008.

The image from the opening post.


The image posted by WitnessFromAfar.


The same image but with gamma correction applied.


Two details from the image above, resized to 200%.




From 3 February 2008.

The image from the opening post.


The image posted by WitnessFromAfar.


The same image but with gamma correction applied.


Two details from the image above, resized to 200%.



So, I think it's something on the edge of the dunes, but I don't have any idea of what it could be.

PS: WitnessFromAfar, there is no need to make a print screen when using IAS Viewer, it has a button to copy the current view to the clipboard.

Simply amazing work there ArMaP. Your analysis confirms that of Internos and my own. Thank you for using the high res versions, that online viewer was completely new to me last night

Thanks for the pointer also! I just did a screen capture because I knew it could be done I'm going to spend some time with that online viewer looking over different images tonight, just to get the hang of it further.

The gamma correction you did also brought out the 'flatness' of the stains even further.

What a great tool!

-WFA

Nicely done internos and ArMap

I think it is a liquid of some kind, something that is similar to an oil substance?
Probably being pressed up to the surface, and then spill over the sand dunes.

I doubt it is water though

Originally posted by Balez
Nicely done internos and ArMap

I think it is a liquid of some kind, something that is similar to an oil substance?
Probably being pressed up to the surface, and then spill over the sand dunes.

I doubt it is water though

Could you imagine if it was oil! If there was ancient life on Mars, then it's completely possible I guess. However, we would need a whole new thread right there - based around the outcomes on if it were true. It would certainly be easier to mine Mars than develop free energies... I digress - enough said!

This has turned out to be a fantastic threat WitnessFromAfar, Internos & ArMaP. I feel like I'm learning SO much from your posts which is what ATS is meant to be about.

Pushing forward our levels of understanding about us and the universe

You make coming here worthwhile. THANKYOU ALL!

If only I could Flag twice

it really does look like some sort of gas release, especially 3rd photo look where it sorta looks like a hand and at the bottom of the hand you see the gas is sorta foggy looking. like it's dissapating. you can see light behind it. if it was a tree the trunk area looks way to thin to support the top. plus how could it survive the wind storms. im not trying to doubt you to be mean, but that's not a tree.

Awesome thread...been following it in great detail...and showing it to many people not members of ATS...

I have read through the whole entire thread several times...because to me these are the most interesting Mars pictures to date...these are obviously not the usual rocks that look like skulls etc.

One of the people I showed it to just happened to be a mechanical engineer...who lives in the Western U.S.

Anyway, it triggered in his memory some huge random sand dunes in Nevada he's seen while driving to other places.

I saw the post with the grasses on the sand dune....

I am fairly new here and I don't know how to post a photo...but this caught my eye, after discussing this thread with him he sent me this photo which IMO illustrates what we see in these Mars photos....if I am wrong or got overly excited please feel free to put the "reality smackdown" on me...

Someone will need to blow up this photo because I don't know how...but it seems to me to show plants growing out of JUST the crests of big and large dunes here on earth so I thought maybe it was relevant....

I see you guys are all thinking it's gases or something but I thought this might add to the discussion



I just looked at that photo and thought, wow that really looks like the Mars dunes in that thread, anyone else?

[edit on 13-4-2008 by LateApexer313]

[edit on 13-4-2008 by LateApexer313]

reply to post by LateApexer313


I didn't saw any dune with vegetation on its crest, and I doubt that there is one, the crest of a dune is not a fixed feature, it changes too much with the winds.

reply to post by LateApexer313

I've found this photo to which you might be interested:

reply to post by ArMaP


Hiyah ArMaP,

Thanks for looking...it's the photo below the heading photo....scroll a little past the photo of the dune at the very top to the main image...to the photo of the same dune with vegetation growing at the crest, and at the crest of the lesser dunes in the photos...

Like I said I am a newbie at posting photos...so I apologize for that. But I have seen your posts in tons of threads I find interesting so please take another look and forgive my newb-ish-ness, I wouldn't put that link up in this thread if I didn't think it had some bearing on this thread, thanks!

reply to post by internos


Awesome Internos, you rock as always...thanks for coming up with a way better example then mine, that illustrates the point I was trying to make!

Someday I will learn how to post the picture I want in the actual thread....don't tell me unless I ask, I want to figure it out on my own .....

But if I can't, tell me, if I ask But yes that's exactly the point of the picture I posted, that the plant life seems to grow out of the crest of the dunes...like in the unidentified "things" sprouting out of the Mars dunes.

Thanks Internos!

sorry, just experimenting, and flubbed it.

[edit on 13-4-2008 by LateApexer313]

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


Try this one too!

www.photoshop.com...

Easy to share and crop online!

reply to post by LateApexer313

and

reply to post by internos


Those dunes are not "normal" dunes, they are what I think is called "stabilised dunes".

Those dunes may be the result of a natural process during which plants spread from the soil around the dune to the base of the dune, and from there up to the top.

Near the place I live there is a long (some 30km) beach, and in its northern part, near what started as a fishermen's village, we have some dunes like that that were partially artificially created to protected the land from the sea, because once those dunes are stabilised nothing can move them, even the stronger storms only affect the sea side of the dune.

Here you can see an exmaple of that, found on this page with the legend "Continuous man-made stabilized dune on Hatteras Island"

reply to post by ArMaP

Yes, also where i live there are (natural) dunes, both near rivers and seas: and just some type of plants grow on them: i have no idea what process is required to allow the vegetation to grow on the dunes: it's not my field at all.
The plants i'm talking about look loke these ones

The dunes are produced by the action of either the river or the sea. Those that were created by the Rhône have mostly been removed in order to free up land for agriculture. The coastal dune system is exposed to storms, and gradually more so as the level of the sea rises. Dunes that are further from the shore enjoy a certain amount of protection, and they do not change position so much, given that they are stabilised by vegetation, in particular tamarisk bushes and pine trees. Despite their arid appearance, dunes contain reserves of fresh water that allow them to support a rich, colourful flora (fiche thématique).

Dunes at Beauduc

I've also found this article about dunes and vegetation in New Zealand

Sand-binding plants play an important role in the formation, development and maintenance of dunes. If dune plants are destroyed, eventually the dunes themselves can be lost, leading to severe damage to the beach and risk to coastal properties.

Our dunes were originally covered by:
native sand grasses on the seaward face of the foredune larger and more diverse shrubs and trees inland.
Today, no intact examples of this natural plant sequence remain in the Waikato Region. The loss of native coastal trees and shrubs is particularly obvious.

For example, the beaches of the eastern Coromandel Peninsula largely lack native trees and shrubs, though isolated pohutakawa trees and other plants remain. Early regeneration of native trees and shrubs is evident at some sites (such as Whiritoa Beach).

There are two main native sand-binding plants:

pingao (golden sand sedge)

spinifex (silvery sand grass).

These plants are well adapted to the dynamic conditions on the beach and send out runners which bind the sand. Pingao is a golden colour and is an important weaving material. It is also a threatened plant, and has to compete with introduced plants and survive grazing by rabbits.

On modified dunes, native sand-binding grasses have often been lost or replaced. In some areas, the native plants have been replaced by managed grassland. In other places, marram grass has been introduced to stabilise the dunes. Marram grass changes the way dunes build up and their shape, and doesn’t provide suitable nesting habitat for some coastal birds.

www.ew.govt.nz...

Dune habitats provide niches for highly specialized plants and animals, including numerous rare and endangered species. Due to human population expansion dunes face destruction through recreation and land development, as well as alteration to prevent encroachment on inhabited areas. Some countries, notably the U.S., New Zealand, Great Britain, Australia, Canada and the Netherlands have developed extensive programs of dune protection. In the UK, a Biodiversity Action Plan has been developed to assess dunes loss and prevent future dunes destruction.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 13/4/2008 by internos]

Sorry double post

[edit on 13/4/2008 by internos]

In some of the pics it looks like darker colored sand that maybe the wind has blown. In others, rock formations.
With all due respect to the O.P. and others, I see no trees/vegetation.

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
I think it's important for us ALL to keep from proclaiming 'what we're seeing is (Fill in the blank)'. Even the skeptics, even NASA.

Especially Dave, in absence of a better theory, which I've not seen you provide. I'm not just talking in this thread either. You have a tendency to call something 'bunk' without offering an alternative explanation, and you add to these posts (regularly) an insult to the poster you're speaking to.

If you've got something to say, an analysis of the evidence that shows some sort of results maybe? I'm all ears. Otherwise, we should all keep in mind that it has yet to be determined what these pictures are actually showing. And the Original Poster's guess is at this point not refuted by the evidence, especially when combined with evidence of ample surface water in both liquid and solid forms on Mars (that's NASA data).

-WFA

I'm with you, bro. I was looking at the pics and could see several explanations. One was "tree," and a few others. And I agree that "tree" fits better than other possibilities suggested. But I would not say for sure that that is a tree. I am open to more detailed examination.

I disagree with some that we would necessarily have to plant human feet on the surface to resolve this. Some good "roveresque" examination - by an existing one or one we add to the team (though, if there were budget issues on keeping both alive, we may not see an addition for a while) - would go a long way.

Of course, we might have to fight Them for the data...regardless.

I remembered that if they have those two photos from that area taken in February then maybe they have from other occasion.

Using this site to look for more photos of that are, I found three more, but only one shows the dunes, PSP_006784_2640.

This is what I found on that photo from 7 January 2008.

The image from the OP


The image posted by WitnessFromAfar


The same image but with gamma correction applied.


Unfortunately, this photo has half the resolution of the previous one, so this is the best resolution available.