Girl died as parents prayed instead of seeking help

Originally posted by Corum
One question for god believers please, do you believe that god intervenes with earthly affairs? Or do you think that god leaves us to our own devices?

Well as I pointed out earlier through the vid I posted.

God clearly isn't answering the prayers of amputees...

I believe in God myself, but I think Christians have a very misguided notion on Gods role in our affairs..

Originally posted by Corum
One question for god believers please, do you believe that god intervenes with earthly affairs? Or do you think that god leaves us to our own devices?

Well I am not your standard sort of believer. I do not believe that God interferes with any individual that does not fully give the permission to do so. Until free will is suspended don't expect interaction. If that makes sense. He allows man to be fully in control and accept the responsibility for his actions.

Thats my belief but actual mileage, dealers fees and prep costs may vary.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

God clearly isn't answering the prayers of amputees...

I believe in God myself, but I think Christians have a very misguided notion on Gods role in our affairs..

True, but then again he never promised us they would grow back if we lost them.

this is proof god doesnt exist

Originally posted by Swatman
this is proof god doesnt exist

LOL.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Personally..

I think its proof that God does exist.

And that he LOVES Irony.

reply to post by Swatman


No its just proof, God isnt some person who controls who lives or dies, people are so arrogant to think that if there is a GOD we are some what special, Universes collide with each, Suns explode the average life of a Planet is 7 billions years, But Gods looking out for some monkeys on a rock who have been around 250,000 years. That is so arrogant that we are so important. God has bigger fish to fry then us. IMHO

I think it's proof of How far you are willing to go in regards to your religious beliefs? These people put there belief in faith over the belief in common sense. This 11 year old died because of what? pride that God would heal there daughter rather than a simple trip to a doctor then a simple trip to a pharmacy.

I have a feeling if the parents got sick, or had a tooth ache they would have sought medical help for themselves. This needs to be determined.

This is the problem I have with religion, belief seems to replace common sense.

It's been said that the other children are still in the home because they don't seem to be threatened, well this is true, unless of course they get sick, and then there very lives are at stake.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by LDragonFire]

Its a shame that they dont realise God's ability to work through humans. That is how divine will is carried out on the earth after all.

Very sad story, and really highlights some of the rare, albeit negative aspects of religion.

This makes the very argument about why the delusions of those believing in God are dangerous.

As for anyone arguing that people who want to intravene into this child's life is a control freak, I would argue that anyone that thinks that they OWN a child is the true control freak. How is it that we disdain slavery and yet feel that children are the /property/ of their parents?

Edit: added the word 'of'

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Jadette]

As for anyone arguing that people who want to intravene into this child's life is a control freak, I would argue that anyone that thinks that they OWN a child is the true control freak. How is it that we disdain slavery and yet feel that children are the /property/ of their parents?

In essence children are our property. They are our responsibility solely. Contrary to popular belief it does not take a village to raise a child. It takes a loving mother and father to raise a child. I believe that those parents were misguided. Perhaps someone should question their pastor. I am a Christian and I disagree with their decision, but it was their decision and noone elses. If I take my child snow skiing knowing how dangerous it is and he dies, should I be locked up in jail? Same principle. They thought they were doing right. They have lost their child. Locking them up or taking their other ones will not make everything better.

Such intense ill-wishes for these people! I wonder if there is any circumstance which might make some of you not wish them to burn in hell? I am also one of those who disagrees with them, but wishing hell on someone is a BIG step to take.

I think it's much more likely that they are currently hating themselves for what they may have 'allowed' to happen. (But you just know there is gonna be someone there to 'support' them in their decision to forgo medical assistance in lieu of faith. - assuming that's what really drove them to let her become so ill as to die.)

It seems to me that whether there is or isn't a God, and whether that God could be said to have 'allowed' this to happen is beside the point. They did what they did (or didn't do as the case may be.) If you're debating the lack of intervention meaning something about God, you're avoiding the fact that those responsible for the situation can only be the 'real' people who could have intervened but chose not to.

I wish I were smart enough to phrase that better, hopefully you will understand my meaning.

Pretty karmic if you ask me. The parents are going to suffer the pain and heartache of losing their child through their own stupidity, and the child's suffering has ended and she may have gone onto a better life.

There's no need to punish the parents now. It seems to me as if they loved their child but were just so absolutely stupid as to believe that their particular deity will all of a sudden, just for them, and not the 30,000 children that die each day in Africa, perform a miracle and save their child.

I do think that friends of the family should take a closer look at the way these children are being raised, and maybe talk to the parents so it doesn't happen again. Unfortunately the other kids are already probably ruined.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


The other irony is that this was all done through faith of God, and all the Children especially and perhaps the parents will now turn from the religion they once sacrificed their child to.

In reply to the OP.

Thier is one word for this situation .. it is called child abuse.

If someone hits a child or neglects a child using beatings and/or mental/physical abuse, or allowed a child to be harmed through willfull neglect .. This is still child abuse.

Thier is no excuse and religion is certainly not a reason to allow the death of an innocent.

For an adult to allow to be harmed an innocent that is not old enough to have the knowledge to save herself, where is the girls choice? if the parents won't fight for the girls right to life .. then who will? The public must thats why we have these systems in place to protect children.

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel


Yes, I'm afraid you're right. Reality check. Unless the parents sought medical aid and were unable to get it, this is effectively child abuse.

I think someone should test their faith in god with a baseball bat to the kneecaps

This is child abuse. I dont understand how someone can be so blind to choose faith/ praying over seeking medical assistance. Sorry to say this but religion truly has brainwashed these people and they are complete and utter lunatics

Its these things that turn people off religion

Im no huge fan of western style medicine, and I treat at home naturally or with simple well tested to be safe medications.

But this is inexusable, what mother would sit by and watch her baby waste away waiting for a prayer to be answered, I can not imagine not doing whatever possible in order to help my child be well, they didnt even know what was wrong with her.

Something as simple as amoxcycillin could have saved this childs life.

as far financial issues go:
If this happened in the united states every child under the of 19 can get health insurance for free or next to nothing if you meet the income requirments, and more than likely a family of that size would meet them if finances were at all an issue.

In most cases you can also go to the emergency room and be billed for it later.

Something that starts as simply as a bad cold can morph into a life threatening situation if infection sets in.

Did she die of dehydration and loss of nutrients, if so that is deplorable,

It is too bad that these parents were not smart enough to figure out that God gave us the knowledge to cure and treat many of our own common illnesses. I know many diabetics who live normal lives. In this day and age that disease is not a death sentence. Faith for an adult is fine. Children have the right to proper medical care. If those children grow up and decide on their own that they wish to refuse medical treatment fine. However, parents cannot let children suffer and die when there is a cure or treatment available and then hide behind the cloak of religion.

I believe that God helps those who help themselves; praying and otherwise doing nothing does not qualify. This is tragic. Let this be a lesson for us all: if ever we pray to God in desperation ask of yourself first, "have I done all that I can do?"

omg people be sensitive! all you can see is your point of view and no one else because your anger impares your judgment! you dont know why they refused the medical attention the girl needed, some religions believe that faith is stronger. but sometimes God doesnt give everyone what they want, if he did what is the point in life then? ya sure they made a mistake that cost their child their life. im pretty sure they feel bad about it too. but you dont know anything! open your minds every once in a while. see what people see, feel what they feel, and then only then you might understand something for once in your life. God doesnt give everything to anyone that asks they have to have the right faith and beliefs. idk what that is i cant tell you im not god. but all im saying is that dont tell someone that they should go to jail just because of something you think is wrong. we all make mistakes, some big some little. so all of you can shut it! im tired of people thinking they are better than someone else because they make a simple mistake. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT SO GET OVER YOUR DAMN SELVES AND TRY TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER! GOD PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS!