John the Baptizer

John baptized and gave testimony about who Jesus was, and Jesus had nothing but good things to say about John.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but no one can enter the kingdom of heaven, without being born of water and spirit.

Why do you think the teachers of the law, back then, were so spiritually blind? It's been almost 2000 years, since John and Christ were here and there is still spiritual blindness all around. Why is this?

How many years has it been since God has spoken directly to those of the Judaic faith? Has he ever went this long without raising up a major prophet for them?

Things are awfully quiet.




[edit on 18-3-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

It's a tad on the creepy side, to talk to myself around here, but oh well.

Jesus said John was the Elijah. John said he wasn't.

I've never studied Islam, for I have no need, but I'm curious. What do they teach about John and Elijah? I wonder if they know how special they are?

John was told to preach to the people to "Repent, for the kingdom was at hand." He was told to baptize and the one he saw the spirit rest upon was the one he was to point out to the people. He was a messenger and he did what he was supposed to.

Then he got locked up in prison. He must have been very distressed. Only if you have been to jail can you even begin to comprehend all that is associated with being imprisoned. I'm sure today's jail's and prisons can't even be compared to what John had to deal with. I highly doubt they brought him, his locusts and honey, so he was probably hungry, lonely and depressed. So, he hears all that Jesus is out doing and he gets a couple of his old disciples to go and ask Jesus if he was the Messiah or should they expect another. And we know that Jesus sent message back, to tell John of all the miracles that were being done. And Jesus said blessed is the one who does not fall away on account of me.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus knew what was going to happen to John, but because we know for a fact, that Jesus forseen things (like Nathaniel under the fig tree & how many husbands the Samartian woman had) at some point we realize - Jesus knew when and how John was going to die.

So, how good was John? Jesus said from Adam to John, of those born of women - there was none better. I'll even kick it up a notch, and tell you that in the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus said he was so good, that you should avert your eyes if you were to pass him. It's hard to imagine a person that good. There's not a person on this earth, alive today, that I couldn't make eye contact with. At the same time, that Christ said all these wonderful things about John, he also said, that those who are least in the kingdom of heaven are greater than John.

Jesus knew John was spiritually blind, while John probably was holding on to the the hope, that Jesus would physically be made King and save him from that cold, dark, dank prison.

It didn't happen.

Our dear John was in the middle of something he didn't understand. One of my biggest heros was spiritually blind.

"Babe, I'm a man maybe I'm a lonely man whose in the middle of something, that he doesn't really understand." Paul McCartney

I tell you the truth. John was the baptiser. He washed with water and that is all he knew, which was his blindness. He was what we would call a sincere humble and honest man, yet his inside was not clean.

That is the mystery within all of us, and the mystery that is about to unfold, which is the true cleansing of the inside.

The creation has labored to this point so that the true joy of the Lord will be able to be shown.

Everyone I see has felt the same way, that this week is actually it.

Ben - I completely agree.

I'm not special, but something is happening, something very big. It's either we are in the last days, the one's Joel spoke of, or it's just time for people to understand the unseen things.

It can't be the latter, because I couldn't make someone understand something if my life depended on it. Therefore it has to be the days Joel spoke of.

It has to be.

Has anyone ever studied why the scribes, Pharisees and teachers of the law, back in John and Jesus' day taught that Elijah had to come first?

Why did they teach that and what were they looking for?

John is symbolic of the best that a lawful man can be.

Think of him like a good neighbor.

It is telling you that you have to understand that type of goodness, that is imperfect first, before you can see it's failures, then you will receive the spiritual goodness that Jesus talked about.

John the Baptist came to prove to the people who Jesus was. He told them clearly, "I baptize with water, but one comes after me, who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Fire. It has a two-fold meaning. It can burn or it can sanctify. One type hot, the other not.

From a bush, that was on fire.... a fire that did not consume, God told Moses 'Take your shoes off Moses, you're standing on Holy Ground.'

Elijah went and proved to the people who God was. They were all worshiping Baal, so they had a little contest to see whose God would show up. The rules were simple. They each took a bull, cut it up, put it on the wood and then whosever God showed up with the fire won.

The priests of Baal went first. For hours, they prayed, danced and cut themselves, as was their custom and Baal never showed up. Elijah taunted them and they would shout all the louder - but nothing happened.

Then when it was time for the evening sacrifce, Elijah looked at the people and said "Come here."

The altar was in ruins where no one had been using it. He used twelve stones for the foundation - one representing each tribe of Israel. He then dug a trench all the way around the altar. He told the people to take four large jars of water and pour it over the altar and the wood.

He said "Do it again." And they did.

He said "Do it a third time." And they did.

The water ran down over the wood, the altar and even filled the trench.

Then he prayed "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again."

And God showed up with the fire and the people realized God was God.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Why do you think the teachers of the law, back then, were so spiritually blind?

It was a judgment on them and in their blindness they fulfilled everything that was needed to be.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
It's been almost 2000 years, since John and Christ were here and there is still spiritual blindness all around. Why is this?

History repeats itself. The flesh is like a never ending loop.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
How many years has it been since God has spoken directly to those of the Judaic faith? Has he ever went this long without raising up a major prophet for them?

He is raised up, and his sheep hear his voice and follow him and he gives them eternal life.

There's no need to go hear from a man, we have a mediator, and Israel in the flesh does too. A remnant of them will see that. When the smoke clears.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


Perhaps this will help. Try replacing "Elijah", which is a title and a name, with "God of "YHW". Try replacing "John/Yohan" again, a title and a name, with "Beloved". When taken in context with the verse it might clear things up a little enabling you to understand as the "reader"...Peace and Bless you

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
John the Baptist came to prove to the people who Jesus was. He told them clearly, "I baptize with water, but one comes after me, who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Fire. It has a two-fold meaning. It can burn or it can sanctify. One type hot, the other not.

From a bush, that was on fire.... a fire that did not consume, God told Moses 'Take your shoes off Moses, you're standing on Holy Ground.'

Elijah went and proved to the people who God was. They were all worshiping Baal, so they had a little contest to see whose God would show up. The rules were simple. They each took a bull, cut it up, put it on the wood and then whosever God showed up with the fire won.

The priests of Baal went first. For hours, they prayed, danced and cut themselves, as was their custom and Baal never showed up. Elijah taunted them and they would shout all the louder - but nothing happened.

Then when it was time for the evening sacrifce, Elijah looked at the people and said "Come here."

The altar was in ruins where no one had been using it. He used twelve stones for the foundation - one representing each tribe of Israel. He then dug a trench all the way around the altar. He told the people to take four large jars of water and pour it over the altar and the wood.

He said "Do it again." And they did.

He said "Do it a third time." And they did.

The water ran down over the wood, the altar and even filled the trench.

Then he prayed "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again."
And God showed up with the fire and the people realized God was God.

Info on Baal (Husbandman)

The priests of Baal...Baal means Husbandmen. Baal combines to Khan (wrath of) better known as Cain and means "spear/lance". Baal-Cain (Husbandman's spear) now this is where Vul-cun (Baal-Cain) comes from and subsequently Volcano which is who the priests were of "The Volcano". The Volcano (obelisk, pyre-mid, phallus, tee-pee, ziguraut, rocket, totem pole, skyscraper) is what is worshiped to this day as the giver of life in one fashion or another. The fire breathing dragon of myth is another picture of the Vulcan/Draconian which the Valiant need slay. So also is the Dracule and Vampyre and Empire...that draws it's life from two punctures in the crust of the earth drawing out the iron rich blood for life and oil for fire...all pictures of the Baal. As Paul Simon says, "The cross is in the Baal park..."

The Mountain that the people dare not come near the base of smokes and rumbles and the people are frighted...and there is "fire" and lightnings. Vul also is Pul and Pho is Pharoh and Put, Ptr, Kfr, Kfu, Kephra, Petra, peter is Rock sure and tested to be cornerstone after passing through tribulation such are the birth pains. And when we see him, the holy one, he is like burnished brass or glowing iron....and as flashes of light, with at which time, shall be such a fervent heat that all the elements shall melt away. For in his kingdom there is no need for sun or moon for he is the light.

And Seth (substituted) was set in place of the righteous Hab-ale (Vanity) Now Set and Seti the Sun and the Disk of Fire Birthed of the Earth and affixed to the ceiling of the sky sitting on the circle of the earth is from the earth. And the ark or half moon was placed as a sign over Cain (Spear) who is reckless and mankind anger, so perhaps he should be found and killed and avenged 7 lives. Thus an evil spirit once it comes out of a man goes and takes 7 others and says lets return unto the house we left. Thus is the symbol of the cross four way protection and stands over the children of Cain and they are the Lords or Hosts of Cain and are broken into 7 different lights and spirits. Set stands not wanting to relinquish this thrown and so will war break out in the heavens for it is the dawn of the third day as a thousand. Soon the stone will roll away...and something like a mountain will be cast into the sea and brimstone (basalt) and Blood, Fire, Pillars of smoke and the serpent will be set free to destroy...the Servant/Serpent have the double-edged sword and tongue. What swings one way also swings another as a plumb bob which the Lord sends forth to level his earth....Peace

[I]Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct[/I]
Has anyone ever studied why the scribes, Pharisees and teachers of the law, back in John and Jesus' day taught that Elijah had to come first?

Why did they teach that and what were they looking for?

The expectation by the Jewish nation, for an Elijah like prophet comes Ma 4:4-6

Mal 4:4-6 (KJV)
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

This prophesy is actually dual.

There are two "Elijahs", that is, it is not some resurrection of the actual prophet Elijah, but two men who come in the spirit and power of Elijah.



The first Elijah was John the Baptist.
The prophecy of the first Elijah comes from Malachi

Mal 3:1 (ASV)

1 Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant

Jesus confirms this in Matthew...

Matt 11:9-12 (ASV)

10 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Who shall prepare thy way before thee. 11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12

Matt 17:12-13 (ASV)

: 12 ...I say into you, that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but did unto him whatsoever they would. Even so shall the Son of man also suffer of them. 13 Then understood the disciples that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

So Christ clearly identifies John as an Elijah, but he also mentions that another Elijah is is yet to come.





This is first mentioned in Malachi...

Mal 4:4-5 (KJV)

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD

Notice the context of this Elijah...it is NOT referring to one who exists during the Lord's first coming, this Elijah is an END TIME Elijah, who will come BEFORE the Day of the Lord.





Christ confirms that this is a second Elijah in the NT...

Matt 17:11-12 (KJV)

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias[Elijah] truly SHALL(in the future) first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias[Elijah] is come already, (John the Baptist the first Elijah)

Christ in the same breath talks about an Elijah who shall, in the future come, we know that this Elijah is an End Time Elijah from Malachi, and at the same time, confirms that John the Baptist was the first Elijah to prepare the way before him.