Ian Paisley and St Patricks Day

I see that Paisley wants to make St Patricks day a public holiday in Northern Ireland.

Historically in Northern Ireland, the Protestant community hasn't really celebrated St Patricks day, and why should they for they are a different sect of Christianity. Also this day has became an Irish day throughout the years, which is one of the factors which makes his announcement suprising to me, simply because Paisley, and many Protestants in Northern Ireland don't consider themselves Irish, but British.

It is well known that Tri-Colours are not allowed in the NI celebrations anymore, even though it is the flag of Ireland and this is an Irish celebration, on the grounds that they may offend members of different communities. Funny because they havent been banned from being burnt on the bonfires (along with other things such as hunger striker and Sinn Fein posters) and that the Union Jack etc arent banned from the Orange marches. Well if they are banning items which cause offense, I dont see the highly controversial marches going away, or the flying of secterian banners during them.

Now why would Paisley be saying this, it makes no sense because he is the Patron Saint of Ireland and Paisley always says he's British and that the loyalists are British.

Now I personally don't have a problem with people of different culural backgrounds attending St Patricks day, but I do have a problem with some of the Irishness being taken away such as the Tri-Colour on the grounds that it is offensive. Frankly, if a loyalst has a problem with St Patricks day, wise yourselves up, for your annual 11th and 12th Jul celebrations are more offensive, but nothing gets said. You's have your 2 days to yourselves, now just let us have our 2 days, St Patricks day and Easter Suday.

I kind of went off topic at the end,m but I think it ties in

How very surprising indeed!

The Union Flag is a legitimate flag to be displayed in Northern Ireland because it is are part of the United Kingdom though, whereas the Tri-Colour is that of a foreign country. You may find that hard to accept, but it is the reality of the situation. This is why it would cause offence. Personally, I don't care about it being displayed at St. Paddies Day celebrations.

Saying that they haven't been banned from bonfire burnings is flippant though. What, are the police gonna go up to a bunch of loyalists and say, "please can you take that flag of the bonnie?" Get real.

I am with you on Orange marches though. I hate them because gone are the days when it is legitimate devote Protestants celebrating their culture. Now, they attract many sectarian morons who want to display their bigotry very publically.

Your "us and them" attitude is the problem with this country though. As much as you don't like it, Belfast is in Britain, not Ireland, so wise yourself up.

Well I am not denying that Northern Ireland is part of Britian, but what I am saying is to basically respect our history and tradition, which is Irish.

Well the cops won't do anything here though, I personally don't believe that they are adeguate, but thats another thread. But what could be dne s community leaders sending out that message, which could eventually stop the practice of buring the Tri-Colour, but so far, I don't even see an effort.

The island is Ireland, and many English, Welsh and Scottish citizens simply say that there Irish, I have heard it before.

To let you know, I don't have a problem with their culture, I am even real good friends with some Protestants, but what grinds my gears are the secterian scumbags of both communities, but I, and many others would appreciate cultural festivals not to be watered down. Now I don't mind the Orange Order marching, just as long as they show some respect for the Republican communites, by not allowing entry into the order to convicted paramilitary members, which is what they claim, but it is not true.

Another thing I don't understand is that they don't allow entry for catholics into the order, but when you look at the war, many irish catholics actually fought in the war - just like many protestants found for the republican side during the easter rising etc.

Well this kind of moved off topic


sorry about below there, i pressed the reply button instead of the edit button

[edit on 15-3-2008 by speight89]

Originally posted by speight89
Well I am not denying that Northern Ireland is part of Britian, but what I am saying is to basically respect our history and tradition, which is Irish.

Well the cops won't do anything here though, I personally don't believe that they are adeguate, but thats another thread. But what could be dne s community leaders sending out that message, which could eventually stop the practice of buring the Tri-Colour, but so far, I don't even see an effort.

The island is Ireland, and many English, Welsh and Scottish citizens simply say that there Irish, I have heard it before.

To let you know, I don't have a problem with their culture, I am even real good friends with some Protestants, but what grinds my gears are the secterian scumbags of both communities, but I, and many others would appreciate cultural festivals not to be watered down. Now I don't mind the Orange Order marching, just as long as they show some respect for the Republican communites, by not allowing entry into the order to convicted paramilitary members, which is what they claim, but it is not true.

Another thing I don't understand is that they don't allow entry for catholics into the order, but when you look at the war, many irish catholics actually fought in the war - just like many protestants found for the republican side during the easter rising etc.

Well this kind of moved off topic

Well, we share a common hatred for sectarian pricks.

I don't rate any police quite frankly. They are just patsies carrying out whatever Big Brother tells them, even in little old Norn Iron.

On your other point, do you mean Catholics joining the Orange Order? How could they when it is a Masonic Orange Lodge only for Protestants? Isn't that the whole point of their existence? I don't think they have anything to do with who fought in WWI or WWII though. You ain't gonna hear any arguments from me on supporting them anyway. I want nothing to do with them.

I think it depends where you are as to whether or not the prods 'go' for St Pats much.
In south Down they do, in Antrim perhaps not
(and ok it's a sweeping generalisation but from what I've seen if you get them out of here & on holiday then they don't seem to have too much problem with it or in being called Irish or in happily mixing with other Irish people either).

As for flags?

I don't see anyone getting offended at all the big international hotel chains all the world over flying practically all the major flags of the globe outside. I don't see British people turning a hair seeing the flag of the RoI being flown in umteen places all over England, Scotland or Wales.

So I am more than a little suspicious of the real motives of those who would claim to suddenly be so offended by the thought of the flag of the RoI being flown anywhere in Northern Ireland.

(Jeez have we learnt nothing?
Isn't that where we came in 50yrs ago with Paisley whining about the flag of the RoI being flown in Belfast!?)

My sense of who & what I am is not so fragile as to be upset by people flying a different flag to 'mine'.

Besides, you'd think by now with even Paisley having come around to the idea that those on the fringes of hard-line proddy 'politics' (if that is hinestly what it is....and I'm not convinced that with some it is just pure sectarian hatreds) could understand the unique position Northern Ireland has.
It's neither completely one thing nor the other.
It's not completely British and nor is it completely Irish.
It is almost the very definition of a shared compromise region, wghether people like it or not.
Neither side got too far (except with a climbing death rate) climbing up on their high-horse to shout their absolute slogans at each other.

Originally posted by Exopolitician
? I don't think they have anything to do with who fought in WWI or WWII though. You ain't gonna hear any arguments from me on supporting them anyway. I want nothing to do with them.

no, I mean in the battle of the Boyne. I remember an education officer from the Orange Order came to my school a while back, and he did say that Catholics aren't allowed entry, talk about religious discrimination lol


Only in NI

Ah, I see. I don't see many Catholics wanting to join them though. It would seem like a bad idea to me.

To look on the flipside of this, doesn't this thread and the issues we're discussing here show how much Northern Ireland has changed over the last decade or so?

Rather than discussing the latest bombings or assassinations, we're talking about flags and symbols (which are comparatively trivial, in a good way). I remain amazed and extremely pleased at the peace process; now we can see a bright future for Northern Ireland, and I earnestly hope no one spoils this. There are minorities on both sides that disagree with peace, but they are thankfully small.

I don't see why the flag of the Republic of Ireland can't be flown during St. Patrick's Day celebrations if that's what people want to do. So long as they don't cause trouble, surely it isn't that big an issue? After all these are private celebrations rather than official, government-sanctioned ones. In London there are flags of dozens of nations (if not more) flying in the streets. Last time I was there, I saw a big French flag down Monmouth Street and a Canadian and South African flag in Trafalgar Square. This is in London, the capital of the UK

Originally posted by Exopolitician
Ah, I see. I don't see many Catholics wanting to join them though. It would seem like a bad idea to me.

well you never know, there could be some overly odd person

[edit on 15-3-2008 by speight89]

In reality, you're permitted to celebrate & use whichever flag (or holiday) you love. Do what you believe is safe & fun whether certain people get offended by that or they appreciate that.

Our governments don't control our heart & they can't take away our freedom!

The Tricolour is the National Flag of IRELAND...why should it not be flown on St Patricks Day?
Even if the Flag is flown on the left (right as you would look at it) this is "protocol".
In 1848 (Thomas Francis Meagher) it was meant to represent the whole of IRELAND, with The green is representative of the Catholic community while the orange represents the Protestant Community. The white in the centre represents the peace between the two groups.

Let the Tricolour Fly on March 17th

The tricolour should be flown alongside the Union Jack on St.Patricks Day across the Island of Ireland to show the world that Ireland is finally a peaceful land.

I was raised from the Unionist side of Northern Ireland, but I am Irish in my heart and my blood. I have no problem with the tricolour.

I think it is a measure of the level of progress made in Ireland as a whole that someone like Rev Ian Paisley will even consider the notion of flying the tricolour.
For years he was a fierce opponent of any expression of Irish nationalism; he must be commended for this act of concilliation.
I suspect he will view it as an expression of Irish heritage rather than Irish nationalism, a subtle but important difference.

reply to post by speight89


To relpy to your post I say this!
I,m son to a father certain religion in the North mother from Donegal and I think its time to get over it. I,m second generation and spent most of my childhood in the North and may i say its one of the most beautiful parts of Ireland.

I hope your post is gonna head this way, I know there are a few glitches to sort out and its most likely another decade away. Hope NOT

Great post my friend!!!!!!!!

IO know there is gonna be people with other views, c,est la vie

Sorry about the ED but just so you know the craic my friend

[edit on 18-3-2008 by pierreletrek]

reply to post by infinite


Infinite

What can I say but the best words ever!

One liner on ATS that has to be acceptible surely