Massacre in Tibet!

Originally posted by gs001
so you deserve the word "prejudice".

Wow, I feel like a kid that was just told by his mom why she needed to spank him, lol. Let's hope I've learned my lesson.

I know you only said it because you care, thanks Jingjing.

Originally posted by 27jd
I don't see them wasting the manpower to flood discussion forums with propaganda.

Do a quick headcount and the Anti-China views outnumber the Pro-China views

If I was a Chinese propaganda agent, I wouldn't have such an obvious Chinese name, I would pretend to be a westerner and be neutral in opinion but leaning towards China.

Do you know what polarization is?. If you attack someones argument they will more likely be more polarized by a issue and disagree with you more. If you compromise they are a better chance to see your side of the argument. And as you can see, the pro-China views arent out to convince anyone with that attitude

Originally posted by 27jd
Wow, I feel like a kid that was just told by his mom why she needed to spank him, lol. Let's hope I've learned my lesson.

I know you only said it because you care, thanks Jingjing.

I myself don't have the ambition to change your mind by spanking you,
you were born in a country of moral superiority complex.
in your eyes, Chinese people must be living in an abyss of suffering
and Tibetan must be living in hell on earth.
and every thing China does must be evil behavior, right?
but don't worry, a more and more self-confident China won't pay
attention to your clamor, vituperation, vilification....,
we are just busy doing our own business.

Originally posted by chinawhite
If I was a Chinese propaganda agent, I wouldn't have such an obvious Chinese name, I would pretend to be a westerner and be neutral in opinion but leaning towards China.

Well, you're right about that. I've said before you may be legit, but there are several members on this and a couple other threads that fit the description you give to a tee.

You never know with the internet. Some people get a kick out of pretending to be someone else

Originally posted by gs001
in your eyes, Chinese people must be living in an abyss of suffering
and Tibetan must be living in hell on earth.

Not really. There's many worse places to live. But China is supposed to be an advanced nation, and like the US it needs to be called out when it is abusing it's power.

and every thing China does must be evil behavior, right?

Also like the US, China has probably done a good thing or two for the world at some point, lol.

but don't worry, a more and more self-confident China won't pay
attention to your clamor, vituperation, vilification....,
we are just busy doing our own business.

Well, good for you. Maybe then China won't feel the need to defend itself so obsessively against every little criticism, wherever it may be found. I hope China is able to work out it's self-confidence issues.

[edit on 29-3-2008 by 27jd]

reply to post by chinawhite


I agree with you there. You can never be sure about anything online, just gotta go with your gut I guess.

off-topic, but...

Originally posted by TheMaker
You are making sense now, the big corps are making huge profits by flooding the American market with very low priced useless junks that sells at a very high price...The big corps are robbing China and ripping off the American citizens!

Yes, that much we agree on. Which is why I won't buy Nikes.

And yes, our environment suffers greatly by using poisonous materials in the processes to produce these junks! Chrome plating, spray painting.....but you know what, the China government realize this and are putting very strict laws in controlling these processes now.

Why wait until after the damage is done? And who cares about the laws if they don't get enforced?

This contributes to the big price increase coming to all products.

Yes, we know. This is why the products became expensive in the west in the first place.

I hope your intention in boycotting China-made products is just to penalize the big corps because these poor men are just trying to make a living.

That's the ethical dilemma. Boycott the product to punish the CEO and the CCP and the worker gets hurt. But I will boycott anyway.

As for human rights in the manufacturing sector, I can tell you that there has been no child labors anymore for the past 10 years. And if there is, those are the ones with fake ID cards and their age is right on the boarderline and they are no Child. The news are biased and this is the truth.

Crap. If this is going on

China 'will catch slave owners'

Chinese TV shows malnourished and injured former slaves
China has pledged to bring to justice traffickers who enslaved hundreds of children and adults to work in brick kilns in two provinces.

Some 550 people have been liberated in recent weeks and families believe up to 1,000 children were enslaved.

news.bbc.co.uk...
Story continues here: news.bbc.co.uk...

then why would we think everything is ok everywhere else?

As I said earlier, the government that passed these new laws you are speaking about is the same government that sent the tanks into Tienanman Square.

The government that refused to apologise to the Aborigines was replaced by the Ayustralian voters.

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


It's hard to find a pair of sneakers that is not made in China unless you are able to find something from Mexico or Spain!

As for the kidnapped workers, I saw that on the news too and I was shocked. But what I was talking about is urban area of China, what we saw on the news is the rural area of China. Frankly I was shocked to see that. But don't worry, no products are being made from these facilities! Some importers knowingly use prisoners to produce goods for the US! That I know of.

reply to post by TheMaker


I would like to commend you TheMaker on your honest observations.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by TheMaker

 

I would like to commend you TheMaker on your honest observations.

All of my observations are honest (to myself anyway!). I am glad to provide more observations in the manufacturing sector to anyone who is interested.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by TheMaker]

reply to post by TheMaker


Do most of the workers in the manufacturing sector in China speak of their concerns over conditions and the profits made by western corporations? Are unions legal there? I read somewhere about the laborers that protested the conditions they were working under at the Olympic stadium and it said they had a union speaking on their behalf.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by TheMaker

 

Do most of the workers in the manufacturing sector in China speak of their concerns over conditions and the profits made by western corporations? Are unions legal there? I read somewhere about the laborers that protested the conditions they were working under at the Olympic stadium and it said they had a union speaking on their behalf.

The general China citizens are trapped inside their little world of China because they can't read any other languages! The owners of factories are the real one who get screwed by the western corps and they are sandwiched between the workers and the US importers. Remember the Mattel incident? The owner of the factory commited suicide! And a lot of people who do business with Walmart are often screwed by cancelled or delayed orders! The workers don't know much about the outside world and they just keep making what they are making but the owner suffers at these times.

There are no official unions, if the government doesn't support it then there will never be one. This is good, look at all other countries which has unions, the business suffers. The government is working real hard on preparing for the Olympics, some workers just over-excising their rights after the new labour law. I had a worker file complain to the government saying he worked too hard for overtimes. The officer came the next day and they found out the guy volunteered for overtime for extra pays! Workers are starting to abuse the regulations and this will transfer to more inflations for the US.

The westerners have a general misconception about China, I can say everyone who is working in urban area is fairly happy. The poor people living in the rural area might still be pushed around by gangs or very localized government officials.

I can tell you China has changed so much for the last ten years!

reply to post by TheMaker


Hah, you are lucky that not more workers went to the labour court to file compensation for "unpaid" overtime for the past years working at your factory I know at least 3 factories who needed to close up their factory, and rumor said that at least one big injection molding factory "compensated" 30million RMB. Another factory worked out a deal paying "only" 200K, instead of the claimed 2 million (First hand info). Many of these complainers are being setup by greedy labour-law lawyers, who are trying to take advantage of the new labour law and gather a group of willing-to-lie workers. After all, a worker not being paid for their overtime hours will never stay longer than a few months!

The ironical thing is that many workers don't even know what the new law means, and refused to sign the new labour contracts, so many workers of my suppliers just left the factory. Not knowing the longer you have stayed in one factory the higher the compensation and the more protected from business owners. Many of those workers think they can earn like two or three times more at the neigbour factory or so, that's why you see many "volunteering unemployed" workers wandering around doing nothing even when some factories are crying for labour. You will see these guys and girls back when their pockets are becoming empty.

Suppliers hate dealing with the big retailers/multinationals, whose terms & conditions and strategy are simply here to screw the businesses. And I for one will not deal with a factory who is supplying Foxcon or Walmart, especially not if a big portion of their production is for these bullies. For the same money, next day they are bankrupt because of these volume creators.









[edit on 1/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

[edit on 1/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
reply to post by TheMaker

 

Hah, you are lucky that not more workers went to the labour court to file compensation for "unpaid" overtime for the past years working at your factory

I know at least 3 factories who needed to close up their factory, and rumor said that at least one big injection molding factory "compensated" 30million RMB. Another factory worked out a deal paying "only" 200K, instead of the claimed 2 million (First hand info). Many of these complainers are being setup by greedy labour-law lawyers, who are trying to take advantage of the new labour law and gather a group of willing-to-lie workers. After all, a worker not being paid for their overtime hours will never stay longer than a few months!

The ironical thing is that many workers don't even know what the new law means, and refused to sign the new labour contracts, so many workers of my suppliers just left the factory. Not knowing the longer you have stayed in one factory the higher the compensation and the more protected from business owners. Many of those workers think they can earn like two or three times more at the neigbour factory or so, that's why you see many "volunteering unemployed" workers wandering around doing nothing even when some factories are crying for labour. You will see these guys and girls back when their pockets are becoming empty.

Suppliers hate dealing with the big retailers/multinationals, whose terms & conditions and strategy are simply here to screw the businesses. And I for one will not deal with a factory who is supplying Foxcon or Walmart, especially not if a big portion of their production is for these bullies. For the same money, next day they are bankrupt because of these volume creators.

[edit on 1/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

[edit on 1/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

You are right. It is becoming impossible for medium and small size factories to survive. I guess a lot of them will go down within 2008. Even though I have a lot of loyal customers, I think I will be leaving this sector and go into the medical field in a couple of years.

The big corps strategy is to make as much as them can and just squeeze you dry until you are dead. The medium size US importers are not doing much better than we do these days, imagine giving the retailers 120 to 180 days credit! There is no doubt that there will be hyper inflation in the US in the very near future and I do feel for the average Americans who will be suffering.

Just to give some hope for the sick, ever wondered why the elites and Presidents never have cancer? Aids, MS, AS and tons of non-curable diseases actually have cures but the big pharm corps just won't let them out because everyone will have to spend their life savings on meds. We do have something in the making but I keep telling my partner this is too big and we may not be able to ever get it out to the market. So if you don't hear anything from us within a year or two, well you know what happened. If no one has been able to get these cures to the market, I don't think we can either. I think I would either be killed or pay an abscene amount of money to shut up!

Looking around at other topics, on this forum, you can see that they (Chinese) are doing genecidal practices on every outlying provence they control.

Well, if it's up to me then I'd say Bring it On. This is racism. You have some issues you want to complain about, ask your government to talk to ours. And our leader do have names not just 'The Chinese People', it's chairman Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao.

Now seriously, unless the west do succeed in bringing us down back into stone aged poverty like you have done before , all this you are doing is creating an enemy that is becoming powerful, which is stupid, you should just nuke us and get it over with before we can truly nuke you back. I did believe the common people of the west are better educated and even more civilized than ourselves for the time being. Until I decided to spent some time and browse the forums. Now I think we are all equally screwed up.