Christians and Non-Christians its all the same!

I have found nowhere in the Bible (that has not been explained in other forums) where it says that non-believers will suffer eternity in torment. Through my own reading of the Bible I came to the following conclusions (opinions):

1.) God does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation.

2.) Jesus does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation.

3.) The choice remains with us.

4.) If we choose to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, we will continue for "eternity" to be with God and Jesus under their council, not control.

5.) If we choose not to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, we will get exactly what we wish for, eternity seperated from God, whether we change our minds or not.

I came to these conclusions through reading the whole Bible NT and OT
Jesus died for Sin, not just the sins of believers but all sin for all people for all time, believers and non-believers. (most Christians do not want to see this as it takes away from their specialness in the eyes of God, in their opinion).

Any opinions and comments are welcome, If you can show me that my opinions are wrong I am open to considering your ideas.

woohoo,I'm saved!!

End of the day,as an agnostic,this is kind of the theory I've been going by.

If there is a god/higher being,then I don;t think that they're vein enough to need to be worshipped day and night. And I don't think that they're wrathfull. It's the forces that be that keep it the way it is. Through fear and manipulation,the masses are controlled.

reply to post by RedmoonMWC

Yes, Jesus did in fact die for the sins of the WHOLE world. Of course, before I came into the faith, I was an unbeliever and now, I have been given faith and moved into the realm of the believing. This fact applies to everyone. Which of us, which now believe, were not first unbelievers? Yes, Christ died for the entire world, and, out of that entire population, He is taking and translating people from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.

Originally posted by RedmoonMWC
I have found nowhere in the Bible (that has not been explained in other forums) where it says that non-believers will suffer eternity in torment. Through my own reading of the Bible I came to the following conclusions (opinions):

1.) God does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation.

2.) Jesus does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation.

3.) The choice remains with us.

4.) If we choose to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, we will continue for "eternity" to be with God and Jesus under their council, not control.

5.) If we choose not to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, we will get exactly what we wish for, eternity seperated from God, whether we change our minds or not.

I came to these conclusions through reading the whole Bible NT and OT
Jesus died for Sin, not just the sins of believers but all sin for all people for all time, believers and non-believers. (most Christians do not want to see this as it takes away from their specialness in the eyes of God, in their opinion).

Any opinions and comments are welcome, If you can show me that my opinions are wrong I am open to considering your ideas.

Er.... would you mind explaining a bit more? It seems like you're saying two different things. In one sentence you say "god does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation"; then you say if we don't believe in Jess that we spend eternity separated from him. So... which one is it? DOES he damn us for eternity, or DOESN'T he(and don't give me the "it's our choice" answer, because there's no reason an omnipotent God[especially one who's been incarnated as a human] would blame us for all eternity for not believing for a few decades).


And I completely agree with Acidtastic.

Core90

It is our choice, If we want God involved in our life God will be involved.
If we do not want God involved in our life, we are left on our own.
God is mearly giving us what we show that we want by our thoughts words and deeds.
We all make choices about who we associate with everyday, so you tell me, if someone doesn't want you arround do you force yourself on them?
I don't think so, you leave them alone, whether you could help them or not, because they want to be left alone.
As you honor their choice to be left alone, God honors our choice to be left alone

Btw I also agree with Acidtastic



[edit on 15-3-2008 by RedmoonMWC]

Hmm very interesting Glad we never talked about this back in our drinking days. Honestly I had never thought of that good job

I don't believe in eternal torment either. However you are missing a very key point. There is a second death.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death."Rev 2:11

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."Rev 21:8

I believe the second death is basically you burn up into non existence. I did a thread on Hell www.abovetopsecret.com... where we discussed it in great detail.

Originally posted by RedmoonMWC
I have found nowhere in the Bible (that has not been explained in other forums) where it says that non-believers will suffer eternity in torment. Through my own reading of the Bible I came to the following conclusions (opinions):

1.) God does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation.

True, we condemn ourselves

2.) Jesus does not condemn anyone to eternal damnation.

Same as above

3.) The choice remains with us.

True

4.) If we choose to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, we will continue for "eternity" to be with God and Jesus under their council, not control.

True again

5.) If we choose not to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, we will get exactly what we wish for, eternity seperated from God, whether we change our minds or not.

True again. If we choose not to believe, that is the same as denying Christ and it has been our chosen path; so there again, anyone who doesn't believe, with all the evidence available, has simply chosen their own path...an eternity without God.

I came to these conclusions through reading the whole Bible NT and OT Jesus died for Sin, not just the sins of believers but all sin for all people for all time, believers and non-believers. (most Christians do not want to see this as it takes away from their specialness in the eyes of God, in their opinion).

We are all the same in God's sight. The only difference is our chosen path. You have done well, my friend, in your interpretation, I believe. However, as BW states, there is an eternal damnation for those who choose to deny the truth. But you are right, that THEY have chosen it; God did not choose it for them. He has given more than adequate proof that he exists, is available, and willing to accept all who will accept him.

Any opinions and comments are welcome, If you can show me that my opinions are wrong I am open to considering your ideas.

I'm of the opinion that our physical existence, life in the flesh is the 'Lake of Fire.' So being cast into in the lake of fire and brimstone, the second death, is probably alluding to a spiritual concept or cycle that designed to correct those negative qualities mentioned. Fire and Brimstone, purify. Just a thought that I'm leaning towards.

Don't Blame GOD ALMIGHTY, ME,TIME,Equal and Unequal REACTIONS or Others But blame your Self Inner-Conscience Consciousness Why You? Are mot yet and many are still TRAP always in their Major Physical Weaknesses.







Even though there are many Books that they Called Best Seller There is A Signature Pattern To Seek and Know the Ancient Knowledge (^^,)

I am not getting into a 2012 debate on this thread. Plenty of room for that in other places.
Sorry about a one line post but sometimes it can't be avoided.