Abduction Rationale?

First off, Hey. I'm new here. I've been reading the forums for a few weeks. To be honest I wound up here mostly for entertainment reasons. And I have read some crazy, funny, way out stuff. But I also have gleaned some neat, strange info. I think a lot of what is proclaimed here is lies or the work of gullible or mentally troubled people. Please don't start to flame me just yet. I also believe there is real information to be got here. I for one, lean more towards belief in alien visitation to Earth than disbelief. I think Bigfoot may also be very real. The point is I own an open but skeptical (that seems to be despised around here) mind. Now with that introduction, I have a question to any and all.

I've read posts discussing abductions and contact...Drakfiir (sp?), sleeper and many more. It seems common that contactees make claims that confirm the existence of aliens on Earth. But when questioned they come up with reasons why they cannot provide evidence. Many of these people claim secrecy is of the utmost importance to the aliens. But then, it's as if the aliens are abducting the most eager to believe and eager to speak people. If the aliens are so super intelligent would it not make sense for them to abduct the skeptics; the people that would be ashamed to speak of their presence here? Yet the aliens seem to abduct people that are not only eager to believe, they abduct people with little or nothing to lose and sometimes much to gain by speaking out. Why do these aliens not focus on abducting people like senators, congressmen, doctors, lawyers, teachers, professional sports players; you know. professional people who would tend to keep their mouths' shut and keep the aliens' secret? You know, it just seems odd that the aliens themselves overlooked this rationale...Any thoughts anyone?

Hello Threadfall

I've read posts discussing abductions and contact...Drakfiir (sp?), sleeper and many more. It seems common that contactees make claims that confirm the existence of aliens on Earth. But when questioned they come up with reasons why they cannot provide evidence. Many of these people claim secrecy is of the utmost importance to the aliens. But then, it's as if the aliens are abducting the most eager to believe and eager to speak people. If the aliens are so super intelligent would it not make sense for them to abduct the skeptics; the people that would be ashamed to speak of their presence here? Yet the aliens seem to abduct people that are not only eager to believe, they abduct people with little or nothing to lose and sometimes much to gain by speaking out. Why do these aliens not focus on abducting people like senators, congressmen, doctors, lawyers, teachers, professional sports players; you know. professional people who would tend to keep their mouths' shut and keep the aliens' secret? You know, it just seems odd that the aliens themselves overlooked this rationale...Any thoughts anyone?

Well as you can understan there are many thoughts about the abduction scenarios and the aliens involved.
I beleive however it has a more deep and grim meaning to it than what many think.

As to the abductees that comes forward and speak about their experiences (not everyone) it might be because of several reasons:
1. They might unknowingly be disinformants.
2. They are delusional
3. They are totally making things up on purpose to get attention.
-
There are probably a number of reasons i have not mentioned though.

But the grim part about the abduction scenarios, and this is my opinion only.
I do believe that there are people getting abducted, alot of people.
However there are not so many that comes back from these abductions to talk about their experiences.

This is where the disinformants work starts.
They tell a tale of such magnitude that it will make the credibility of any abduction case weak in many eyes.

So what is the aliens agenda into this?
I have no friggin idea!
But i do believe that they do cooperate with a few governments on this planet, and also gains their help to get away with this.

There are a great deal of things that could make this very plausible.
There are alot of missing people out there, yes many probably 'go away' because of personal issues, and there is also alot who disapear because of criminal activities.
However i do not believe that all of the people missing are missing because of this.

If the Aliens overlooked this? Would we not notice when people vanish? Ofcourse we do, and we do have alot of cover stories, alot of numbers to work with on these cover stories.
I dont think the Aliens give a damn who they abduct.

The big question in all of this for me is, and guess it's in many other peoples minds also, WHY?

If they are so advanced, what are their needs with us? What could we possibly have that they need?

As you see, the more questions you ask, the answers will only lead you to more questions.

As this was your first post here, and you asked very valid questions about something that usually only is met with contempt you will get a Star & Flag

Thanks for the good words. Im glad you realized that I wasn't trying to dump on people. It's just that I think some of the logic doesn't add up, and this is one thing that's bugged me.

The OP poster makes a number of false assumptions. All kinds of people from many professions do get abducted. Many or most who do AREN'T the type that want to go out and talk about it. They may appear anonymously on a documentary with their face in shadow. They don't make money from it and gain no fame, but usually only ridicule if they become known. And that's just the few who remember they've been abducted. People who are abducted have usually had there minds cleared of the event with some kind of induced amnesia, that's why it doesn't matter who gets abducted, because they shouldn't remember anyway. Most memories come out under hypnosis. So that should clear up some of things you said.

And if you want to guess at the motivation of the aliens, then you simply need to see what it is they're doing to people they abduct. It's that simple. Since it seems that virtually all abductions seem to revolve around our human reproductive system, then that must be the reason. Women are given pregnancy tests, men have something placed over their genitals to make them ejaculate, so that should lead one to some possible conclusions, such as they're using us to populate other planets (perhaps that's how we got here), or they're looking to preserve the human genome and life on earth, so when end-time events wipe most of us out, they can repopulate this planet.

-Elhardt

I don't want to doubt people who talk of these experiences, but I have many problems with them. First and foremost is that this kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years. Some of the first things ever written describe exactly what we now call alien abductions. So I have trouble believing this sort of thing has been going on so long.

Also, as a person who has experienced almost every know sleep disorder (and probably some unknown) I can tell you from experience that a lot of weird, creepy things happen at night.

Again, I don't want to doubt what people are saying, but I would like to hear a plausible explanation as to why this can have been going on for thousands of years.

Elhardt, I didn't say that only people with nothing to lose talk of abductions. And I certainly didn't mean to imply that no one has lost things by claiming to be an abductee. I was mostly commenting on what I have come across on these forums. But on a larger scale, there are definitely more varied types of people claiming to get abducted; I'll agree with you there. But you can't tell me with certainty that they are (people lie for millions of reasons). My original intent was to say, basically, it seems like many people who claim to be chosen by these aliens to be contactees are actually un-extraordinary people here on Earth, so why do Aliens want them? I liked the first replier's response; it make logical sense at least.

The memories of those who do remember seemed to be half buried, which begs the question, what happens if its fully buried? Would you know?

As for why people get abducted, the aliens tell a different story for every abductee. Its usually to:

• Impart knowledge of future catastrophe
  
• Alien Hybrids
  
• Unusual medical procedures
  
• Spiritual purpose
  
• other
  

Personally, I think the aliens are having a laugh at our expense, which is as feasible as any of the other opinions

Originally posted by Threadfall


I've read posts discussing abductions and contact...Drakfiir (sp?), sleeper and many more. It seems common that contactees make claims that confirm the existence of aliens on Earth. But when questioned they come up with reasons why they cannot provide evidence. Many of these people claim secrecy is of the utmost importance to the aliens. But then, it's as if the aliens are abducting the most eager to believe and eager to speak people. ...Any thoughts anyone?

Excellent question and quite valid......check out this site.

www.ufoabduction.com...

A Personal Note:
www.ufoabduction.com...
I wrote most of the information on this web site based on more than 42 years of UFO research. In addition, since 1986 I have conducted over 1,000 hypnotic regressions with abductees. I have tried to be as objective and as "agenda free" as possible. I have no New Age, spiritual, religious, transformational, or transcendent program to promote. I try to stay as close to the evidence as I can. However, there is no possibility that I have avoided error. The majority of evidence for the alien abduction phenomenon is from human memory derived from hypnosis administered by amateurs. It is difficult to imagine a weaker form of evidence. But it is evidence and we have a great deal of it. Still, readers must be skeptical of what I say and of what all others say in this tangled arena of alien abductions, hypnosis, popular culture, and memory. Abduction researchers are mainly amateurs doing their best to get to the truth knowing that objective reality may elude them.

David M. Jacobs, Ph.D.

I think this quote should give you an insight into this hotly debated ATS subject. Good luck, have patience and have fun learning.

Nothing I'm about to say is new. A lot of it is probably trite. But ....

Before we were abducted by aliens, we were abducted by demons and hobgoblins. There is a sleeping disorder which simulates abduction characteristics, and popular culture and the imagination can often provide the rest.

There are liars who say they've been abducted because to tell the truth might get them or someone else into trouble and the story snowballs. An abductee might claim, for example, to have been in a truck with his friends when a UFO came and took him away. The truth might be that he was an annoying git and his friends decided to teach him a lesson that went badly wrong, leaving him for dead. A week later, this guy turns up alive and his pals think, oh my god he's gonna talk. But no. Now he has something on them, he can spin this out a bit. He's an annoying git, remember. He says something offhand like "Hey, I must have been abducted" and the papers get interested. His pals back him up because the truth is so horrendous. Next thing you know, they're making movies about his story and throwing money at them all. Happy ending.

But in there somewhere there might be the occasional legitimate claim and this is where we are probably culturally incapable of understanding why aliens woud take so much interest in us over so long a period. Some of these senarios have something going for them:

The government is behind it:
Social and political control can only be painlessly achieved by gathering information, including psychological data, on how people react to being manipulated and somehow turning that to acceptance. If you believe you have been abducted by an alien entity and are currently under scruitiny in a flying saucer, what are the chances you'd try to escape? Where would you go? How do you hurt an alien? The government (by which you may read Illuminati/Masons/NWO/Neo Nazis/Microsoft or whatever your private bugbear might be) is behind these abductions for their own sinister, controlling reasons and are controlling the media response in order to control the public attitude.

The government is behind it II:
Aliens have contacted the earth leaders and explained what they want. The earth leaders, thinking it's a good idea to stay on the right side of these guys - with a view, perhaps, to overthrowing them later and taking control of the universe for themselves - agree to let the aliens do whatever they like. There are plenty of people, one or two won't be missed. So, cows get mutilated, people get taken away, and all because the aliens want (a) our water (b) our minerals (c) our babies ..... Government controls media response and, through this medium, public reaction to abductee stories.

The aliens are nosy:
When we tag animals in the wild, we are the aliens doing the abducting for medical/ecological research. The animal in question knows less about our motives than we can guess about a Grey's. Though wholesale population growth control seems unlikely (we cull antelope and protect siberian tigers), aliens are probably individuals, too, and some are poachers while others are honest scientists. Maybe our ovaries are a delicacy in some restaurant on Sigma Alpha V.

The aliens are us:
Once upon a time in a galaxy very, very near to home..... If you accept evolution, you will accept that it's happening all round us, very, very slowly. If you accept that science has the capability of cracking every mystery, then you may accept that time-travel is just around the corner for us. If you accept that humanity is basically thick, then you'll have figured that we're going to mess up our planet and quite possibly our entire future.

What does the future do when it fails to learn from its past mistakes? Only time can tell .......

TO BE CONTINUED .....




[edit on 12/3/08 by hidatsa]

Thanks for the response bro. Apparently threads that want to examine the phenomenon from a distanced, objective view aren't very popular considering how few response I got. For the record, I did not say that I think all abductees are liars or crazy people. Maybe there are much more subtle factors involved, like the sleep disorder mentioned. Maybe it's an ancient collective fear of the unknown, bound to our minds from prehistoric times when it paid to be terrified of the (dangerous) unknown. And maybe the stories stem from people getting abducted from aliens. I just find it curious the type of people that often claim to be abducted, or even "chosen," by a superior race are frequently the yokel pumping gas at the corner grocer (yea, I know there are exceptions.)

reply to post by Threadfall

Apparently threads that want to examine the phenomenon from a distanced, objective view aren't very popular considering how few response I got.

I have to agree with you on that sentiment.
It probably has something to do with us n00bz here that we are not respected yet enough to get respected responses from the users on this network.
Or that our input is valued less than the others...

I think that is against everything that ATS stands for "Deny Ignorance"
Now i am not saying that everyone on ATS is like that....

Maybe there are much more subtle factors involved, like the sleep disorder mentioned. Maybe it's an ancient collective fear of the unknown, bound to our minds from prehistoric times when it paid to be terrified of the (dangerous) unknown. And maybe the stories stem from people getting abducted from aliens. I just find it curious the type of people that often claim to be abducted, or even "chosen," by a superior race are frequently the yokel pumping gas at the corner grocer

Sleep disorders is something that the 'shrinks' often use when they have not enough information to determin what the cause is, or that there is something that is unexplained in their scientific world

Fear is still one of humanitys strongest emotions and instincts.
The unknown has always been a cause for much of this fear.
I think you have point there as it to be one thing to be collected into the research.

The people choosen, they may seem just very ordinary non-descript people.
I dont remember where i read this, that many of the abductees are also shy and dont socialize as many others do.

If i dont make sense it's because i am tired

Originally posted by Balez
Sleep disorders is something that the 'shrinks' often use when they have not enough information to determin what the cause is, or that there is something that is unexplained in their scientific world

That may be a little unfair. Unfortunately, I don't have that good a memory, so I can't give any of the scientific details, but I'm sure it's googlable, but I've seen a couple of documentaries that isolate some symptoms from which just about anyone can suffer and that share much in common abductee reports.

Firstly, the body essentially paralyses itself as it falls asleep. This is important for restful recouperation. Second, the brain is already on the threshhold of enhanced imagination which will lead to dreaming. It is a creative time which has influenced poets, novellists, musicians and painters for centuries.

Under some circumstances, such as external disturbance, the brain can briefly become conscious of this paralysis. Now, remember, it's already starting to fantasise. In days-gone-by, the fantasy may have been of demons or hobgoblins, the scary fairy-stories of their times. Today, marginal consciousness might produce images of the aliens we know so well and deduce that they have paralysed us deliberately.

The rest is, essentially, a dream based on these misinterpreted data. The more widely reported the dream, the more likely you are going to adopt that scenario yourself. You might elaborate with space ship designs, specific characteristics of the aliens involved, medical procedures - which might be the result of discomfort from lying awkwardly in the first place (I've had nasty dreams that have been related to tooth-aches, aching muscles and even one where I dreamt I'd had my leg amputated. In that case, it was my girlfriend who was lying awkwardly across me.) - and so forth.

But it's the smaller per centage of credible witnesses with incredible stories that deserve closer examination, just as in UFO reports, Ghost sightings and the whole range of extreme realities that confront humanity on a daily basis.

reply to post by Threadfall


Threadfall, your a brave man (or woman). Welcome to ATS!

I think there are real Alien abductions and sadly I think there are mostly false abductions with lots of crazy reasonings. Just like there is real UFO phenomena and fabrications. I think at it's center there is a nucleus of truth to aliens and visitation but sadly it's surrounded by a heap of people that just want to muddy the waters in a futile attempt at notoriety.

Of course these types of people will never admit as much because it would jeopardize their 15 minutes of fame. It's sad but true that the world is full of confidence tricksters and the "me too" band wagon jumpers but that's the human condition for you.

You just need to remain skeptical but open to new ideas and theories - so long as they resonate with your own common sense. Never make leaps in logic and never assume you know the whole game. Keep your eyes in the stars and your feet on the ground!

It's true, there are members at ATS that won't respect this point of view and call you all kinds of things but they are as entitled to their opinion as yours. That's just the way it goes mate. It's a forum. It's up to you to separate the wheat from the chaff. Believe me, there's lots of chaff!

Keep asking questions no matter how uncomfortable it may make others. As the ATS motto proclaims, "Deny Ignorance".

A star and a flag for your bravery

InfraRedman Out!

[edit on 18/3/08 by InfaRedMan]