Columbine/many shooters

[edit on 11-6-2005 by Charlie Murphy]

Someone mentioned it before in this thread but no one really commented on it, one the the top fbi investigators son who was at chs, previouslly made a video with people wearing trenchcoats blowing up the school, wonder if this has anything to do with a possible cover up ?

Yeah, 2 people couldn't have carried so many explosives into a school without being caught or seen. Also, I think they did the nazi salute just before they shot themselves. That's what I heard, which means there would've been a video camera where they shot them selves. I don't suppose that footage ever got released?

State, federal and local officials have confirmed that ballistic evidence collected by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation at the crime scene shows only bullets, fragments, live rounds and shell casings from the weapons carried by the two gunmen and police.

Sources said that no fingerprints found on guns or bomb materials could be traced to anyone other than Harris or Klebold

Fingerprints

And about those fingerprints:

Apparently...Salon.com article

Criminals like the TEC 9 because it's relatively cheap, small (about a foot long) and therefore easily concealed, and can carry 36-bullet clips. Its manufacturer, the Miami-based Navegar, has advertised the gun's "excellent resistance to fingerprints,

Different source regarding the TEC 9 fingerprint issue

It wouldn't be unreasonable for this to explain why Klebold and/or Harris' fingerprints weren't found (if that's true).

(Apologies for being guilty of Thread Resurrection In The First)

looks like only two to me...

Warning VERY GRAPHIC Harris Kiebold dead

Columbine wasn't the only school shooting that bears the hallmarks of a covert op. These things are more common that you think:


Jonesboro, Arkansas, Westside Middle School, March 1998, Two lone nuts--Golden, 10 and Johnson, 12
--"According to witnesses, many of the students knew immediately who was responsible for the shooting, and they told their teachers when they reached the safety of the gym, naming Andrew Golden, Mitchell Johnson, and a third shooter, reported to be an older student at a nearby high school."

--"A teacher who was with the children in the school gymnasium immediately after the shooting stated emphatically: The boys hadn’t been arrested at that time. [All the kids in the gym] were crying and they knew [who had done it]. Actually they said it was Mitchell Johnson, another person, and Andrew Golden. They said there was a third person who to this day and [as long as I live], I will believe there was a third person."

--"The possibility of a third shooter was apparently investigated by the police and found to have no merit, but some of those who were in the line of fire still believe that a third shooter, situated on a hill near the elementary school nearby, was involved and eluded capture. Some community members also speculated that a third person, perhaps someone older, had helped the boys plan the event or had discussed it with them. This issue apparently was not part of the investigation."


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Erfurt, Germany, Gutenburg School, 4-26-02 One lone nut--Robert Steinhauser, 18
--"Denise Hoffman, 15, and five of her fellow students saw what occured. There were two masked men, both about 5'9". One of them had a weapon strapped to his back and was shooting with his pistol. The other one only had a pistol. "One of the two", remembers Steffen Holzhauser, 15, "followed us out to the school yard and ran away. I didn't see where. But not back into the school." " (Thuringer Allgemeine Zeitung 4-27-02)

--"Up to the evening of the attack, police were looking for a second gunman, who the students spoke of. Did he exist? Or did everyone just see Robert Steinhauser, though seemingly everywhere at the same time?" (Stern 20/2002)

--"The police first concentrated on securing every corner of the school. Witnesses told of a second shooter...." (Thuringer Allgemeine Zeitung 4-29-02)

-- "A few teachers and students are certain that there was a second shooter, who escaped with the fleeing students, who now apparently freely roams the streets of the city. One source was a group of 7th graders who fled to the basement library and who told of two masked gunman holding pistols, one of whom had something strapped to his back(the shotgun, presumably). One was wearing light-colored clothing, the other one wearing dark clothes."(Spiegal, 19/2002)

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Beslan School #1, Russia (9-1-04)
--www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8294414/
"Dudiyeva(Beslan Mother's Committee) said the committee had uncovered important details about the hostage-taking, such as that the truck carrying the militants to the school had a police officer as an escort and that weapons had been stored in the school ahead of time ."


-----------------------

Red Lake High School, MN, 3-21-05 One lone nut found dead in classroom
--startribune.com 3-21-05 at 6:03pm
"(Beltrami County chief deputy)Lyons said the shooter was in custody. He did not identify the assailant or say how the suspect was caught. He also said authorities are investigating the possibility that there may have been more than one shooter."

--www.kstp.com/
03/21/2005 06:21:01 PM
"The shooter is in custody." "There is also a suspect in custody, they aren't saying what type of suspect or anything else."

--KTVU.com "..... Paul reported that the suspected shooter was in custody."

-----------------

Here's another more recent example:


Tacoma Mall Shooter 11-20-05 black trenchcoat-wearing Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, six wounded

"GRACE: Just as the holiday shopping season is about to kick off. Straight to "Seattle Post Intelligencer" reporter Jake Ellison. What happened, Jake, at that mall?
JAKE ELLISON, "SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER": Well, apparently, right around just after noon, you know, a well-dressed young man, as you pointed out, walked into the mall, at first carrying a guitar case and wearing a black trenchcoat, right in front of the J.C. Penney store...
GRACE: Oh, well, wait a minute. Wait a minute right there. Anybody that covered the Columbine shootings, you walk in with a trenchcoat and a guitar case into a mall, just everybody jump on your stomach that moment! Go ahead, Jake.
ELLISON: Well, you know, walking around the scene on the outside, there were a lot of young men wearing long black trenchcoats. In fact, several of the witnesses I talked to wore them, and I saw a lot of young men just sort of hanging around the bus stop there later in the evening wearing long black trenchcoats. Seems to be quite of a trend there







"Ezekiel 25:17, The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

The seventh anniversary of the Columbine High School massacre is upon us. The public needs to be reminded that this henious crime was never truly solved, and that involvement by unidicted co-conspirators is highly likely.



--Why did numerous ear-witnesses say at least one attacker was firing a fully-automatic weapon?

--Why did police concentrate on setting up a perimeter at the same time dispatch(via phone) is hearing the sound of gunshots within the school?

--Why did it take police so long to enter the school, and why did it take almost three hours for them to reach the library, the area where the shooters were last seen? Who gave the orders not to go in?

--Why did over 100 eye- and ear- witnesses dispute the official theory of only two shooters? Why did over 40 of those witnesses identify other participants BY NAME?

--If the two shooters committed suicide shortly after noon, as police claim, how come at least 35 witnesses saw or heard suspects/gunshots/explosions after that time?

--Why are there conflicting eyewitness accounts on the place and manner in which at least four of the dead victims were killed? Were victims being moved around? Was the crime scene being rearranged?

--Why did investigators ignore dozens of other promising leads that led to evidence of a wider conspiracy?

--If left-handed Klebold shot himself in the left temple, why was his suicide weapon found clutched in his right hand?

--How did students manage to keep seriously wounded teacher Dave Sanders alive for more than three hours while awaiting rescue, yet he was dead within 20 minutes of the police taking control of him? His corpse was later found with his shirt off. Is that first-aid? Or a sure-fire way of sending someone into shock?

--What was the motive? Why would two teens who were not bullied, did not hate everyone, and were not psychopathic suddenly decide to destroy the lives of a dozen fellow students and themselves just six weeks before graduation?

--Why would Harris and Klebold plan for a suicide mission and at the same time make normal plans for a post 4-20 future? Like seeking help on an English class essay from a teacher a few days before the attack, like making a date to see a movie the day after, like putting in a work schedule for the next week, like going to an out-of-town college with your dad to pick out a dorm room, like making plans to visit your old friends in New York.

--Where is the gun shot residue(GSR) test evidence for Harris and Klebold and the other suspects?

--Why was fingerprint evidence for Harris and Klebold not found on all but two of the hundreds of obects gathered at the scene? Whose fingerprints, if any, were found on the weapons seized?

--Why does the official story claim, without a shred of evidence, that it was Harris and Klebold that set the South Wadsworth diversionary bomb (an incendiary device that exploded a couple of miles away from the school at the same time the shooting started)?

--Why did authorities claim the two shotguns seized had no serial numbers when later documents clearly show they did have serial numbers? Why did they not try to find out who sold Harris and Klebold the Hi-Point 9mm rifle and the pump-action shotgun that were used in the shooting?

--Were the school administrators warned, as rumored? Who was Principle Frank DeAngelis looking for, as reported by one student who saw him running up and down the interior cafeteria stairs right before the shooting broke out?

--Why did a science teacher tell his students that they had been expecting a fire drill? Was a bomb found in a trash can on 4-19, as one source indicated? Were bomb threats phoned into the school on the morning of 4-20, as two others claimed?

--Why didn't the Final Report conclude that shooters entered Science rooms 1 and 8, when numerous shell casings were taken from these areas?

--Why didn't the Final Report mention the brief exit of a shooter on the east side, according to many eyewitnesses?

--If the person seen on the roof of the school was a repairman, as police claim, why do witnesses say he was holding a weapon? Were shell casings found there, as some said?

--Who scheduled 'crisis training' drills at Columbine High Schol(CHS) in the weeks before and what was the exact nature of this training?

--What was a Denver police officer and a JeffCo sheriff doing at CHS that morning before the shooting started?

--What does reputed video evidence from the library and admin office areas show? Why does local media refuse to release on-scene video footage from the first half-hour of the incident?

--What happened to all the evidence taken from the computers of the trenchcoat mafia gang?

--Where are dozens of missing interviews of students, especially those in the science hall? Why are there still thousands of pages of investgatory materials that have never been made public, including hundreds of reports of non-Columbine witnesses and tipsters?

--Why has the school district's own report on the shooting, which included the extensive disciplinary records of the trenchcoat mafia associates, not been made public?

--Did investigators even try to interview Harris' psychologist, the man perhaps best positioned to know his mental state at the time?

--Why did investigators show a remarkable lack of curiousity about connections with numerous similar school violence-related incidents occuring around the same time in the metro-Denver area and around the country?

--Why did LAPD and Los Angeles Sheriff's Office personnel travel to the scene afterwards? What was the subject of a 10-minute phone call made by the NYPD to the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office on 4-20?

--Who invited the FBI and the ATF to the scene?

--Why was the US Attorney's Office (federal) consulted on 'prosecutive decisions' for this local crime?

--Why was all but one of the seven 'investigatory' teams headed or co-headed by an FBI man? (the one exception was a team headed by a CBI man, who was himself 'ex'-FBI) Was the entire crime scene 'federalized' soon after the shooting started, under powers granted by the 'Anti-terrorism Act' ("for the protection of the people and the state") signed by President Clinton exactly three years before- on April 20, 1996?

--Why did FBI special agent Dwayne Fusilier not recuse himself from the investigation, as his son helped make a Columbine school video two years before that eerily mimicked the shooting?

--What were two high-ranking military figures (a colonel and a general) in cami uniforms doing at the scene? Why was a memorial service at a public park afterwards ringed by military trucks? Who authorized a flyover by military jets and why?

--Why did the Federal Emergency Management Agency(FEMA) hold a four-day disaster training course 18 months before, "designed specially to adress the needs of Jefferson County," for future Sheriff John Stone and other county representatives?

--Is it just coincidence that the episode of CBS' television show "The Promised Land" that was scheduled to air that week featured a kid firing a gun in front of a Denver high school? Or that the plot of the WB's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" for that week was a student gunman and a plot to kill every one at school? Or that MTV aired a Justice Department-produced program called "Warning Signs" about violence and its effect on young people on 4-22-99 (date was scheduled before Columbine)? Or that, before 4-20-99, the History Channel had scheduled to show a program called "Slaughter at Schools" (hosted by Mike Wallace) for May 10?

--When ABC's "20/20" news program decided to do a show about a disturbing new educational phenomenom called 'Death Education,' back in the early '90s, why did they choose Columbine High as the featured school?


[edit on 14-4-2006 by starviego]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

just wrote a reply in another thread, which can be viewed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Today is the aniversary of the mass shooting at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. In April 20th 1999, 12 students, 1 teacher, and 2 gunmen lay dead. It remains a topic that is seared into the memories of many folk, because of it's suddeness, because of it's sadness and because of it's brutality. But despite this unique atrocity, despite the controversy that led on to debates about gun control, on Marilyn Manson, bullying, parental responsibilty, the game Doom, drugs and the like, there are still unanswered questions that linger around the events of April 20, 1999.

I've went and did some research on the Columbine Shooting and I found a great site called columbine-research.info...
It's done by a small group of determined folk who have tried to gather as much information of the atrocity as they can. They are known as the Columbine Research Task Force. They've gathered so much information that I don't have the time or the strength to examine every account, and every bit of information. So I will just point out the strangeness of the witness reports, contray to what the Official Version of Events say which are:

*Students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold planned and did the attack by themselves
*They were dressed in trenchcoats and black trousers.
*The shooting started at 11.19 am and ended at 12.08 pm. Harris and Klebold then kill themselves.

There is conflicting witness statements which are contray to what the first bulletpoint of the Official Version of Events say. Outside the school, various witnesses have reported seeing a young bloke dressed in a white t-shirt, and a pair of jeans. Remember, that both Harris and Klebold were dressed in black pants. Harris wore a white t-shirt underneath his trenchcoat, but he certainly didn't wear jeans. Also, many folk saw all three of them at the same time, getting rid of the possibilty that it was just the two gunmen. I will put this witness report in case your interested.

Chris Wisher, student (written statement made 1.30 pm on April 20, 1999): "Me and my friends were about 100 yards away from the people. There were 3 of them( 2 wearing trench coats and one wearing a white shirt. We heard what we thought was a gun and started running. Then we figured that they were fireworks and went back. We saw one of them aim a gun at us and started shooting at us. We heard the gun shots going by our heads so we fell to the ground. We got up and saw the kid in the white throw what looked like grenades on the roof. That is when we got back up and started running" (pg 1,262)

Bleh, it's exhausting work but there is loads of other statements that support this statement.

Jake Apodaca, student (written statement made 1.30 pm on April 20 1999)

"Me and my friend were at the soccer field and we heard what sounded like fire crackers and we looked over and saw 3 men by the school and they were shooting guns. One of them threw a couple of bombs on roof of school. And then they shot what looked like a shotgun at us." pg 654

There is loads and loads more information on this. Go visit the website. Cause there is alot more then it seems. There is also statements showing that about several students saw a fellow student, but not Harris or Klebold, taking part in the shooting. He was identified by his acute acne, bad teeth, massive height, odd way of walking. Otherwise a distinctive bloke that you couldn't confuse with either Klebold or Harris.

Bijen Monte, junior (interviewed April 30, 1999 by Agent Jerry W. Means and Agent Ricky S.Mundine, Colorado Bureau of Investigation)

"MONTE stated she was near the cafeteria when the shooting started and she saw one of the gunmen. She stated the gunmen she saw was not one of the guys identified on television. (i.e., Harris and Klebold)"

Monte was sitting outside on the south side of the building at the time. "She thought she saw fireworks sparkling on the sidewalk, and then saw a guy in a trench coat coming down the hill. Three kids went 'down' to the ground, and the guy in the trench coat was standing over two of the downed kids. She stated she knew it was (redacted) in the trenchcoat, standing over the downed kids, because she recognised him...."(pg 1016-22)

The other folk who were involved in the shooting have had their names redacted. But that said, the censors sometimes slips up and occasionally his name is snuck through untouched.

Anyway, there is more information then I can handle right now. My head hurts and I'm not sure if this is a conspiracy or not. But something is very strange about Columbine. The police continue to not release full autopsies for Klebold and the majority of the victims. Why? The balistics information has yet to be released fully. Why? Some bullets recovered from the scene cannot be matched to the guns of Harris, Klebold or any law enforcement. Who else was shooting that day? Some Columbine students have died in unsolved violent deaths since April 20 1999, while many report getting death threats by telephone. There are so many hidden secrets, so many dark corners to fill an entire book, which may happen someday, but until then, the best place to look for answers will probebly be the Website of the Columbine Research Task Force.
columbine-research.info...

I'll add more later...

I wonder if any of the people here that beleive witnesses saw 3 shooters are the same people who don't believe the hundreds of witnesses that saw a plane hit the pentagon on 9/11.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Eyewitnesses are believable only when they corroborate the official story?

No... I just wanted to point out that I think there may be some people who believe the minority of the witnesses in this case who saw 3 shooters, but in no way believe the overwhelming majority of witnesses who saw a plane hit the Pentagon.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by evanlong]

Links to 30K+ pages of government documents related to the April 20, 1999 attack on Columbine High School have been posted to the internet.

www.xmail.net...

I've also created a video on the documents called "The Columbine Cause".

www.xmail.net...

Sincerely,
Evan Long

starviego.
i was looking at a lot of your questions and they are all paper thin, and look extremely easy to debunk with a tiny amount of evidence, some i could even use a fraction of logic to rule out, without having any knowledge of the columbine shooting. like the repairman on the roof, and witnesses claim that he has a weapon. Well a repairman has numerous tools and such that from faraway, while he's on a roof, could very well look like a weapon, especially when you know there's a shooting going on, someone could think that the guy has a weapon. and who said that? a lot of your questions can be answered and thrown away like the garbage they are with very little logic, i'm just too lazy to do so. and that other dude has a point about the pentagon. i hate conspiracy theories. they're all bull#. especially 9/11 ones. al-queda attacked us because of favoritism of israel. jumbo jets and structural failure are responsible for the collapse of the twin towers, and a plane hit the pentagon. that is why there is plane debris, and that is why all of the light poles in the path were knocked down. wings of a plane will knock things down. not a missle. witnesses say they heard something that sounded like a missle. people that have never heard a missle before, or the sound of a boeing 747 flying into a building before. i'm sure the two sound similar, but people saw a plane, and there are people that were on that plane that died, and people that knew those people that know they are dead. you trying telling the parents or spouses of the people on that plane that it was a missle that hit the pentagon.

reply to post by starviego


you realize that half of these questions are really, really farfetched?


Seriously, the point of bringing up the tv show coincidence makes no sense whatsoever. It's just a coincidence, an MTV program is not going to have any connection to a school massacre whatsoever.

And also, think about the mindset of all of the students who were at the high school during the shooting. They were all probably terrified and anybody who was walking around the school alone with an object that looks like a weapon would be suspicious to people who are losing their minds at the moment. The person on the roof of the school was not a gunman, if he was, wouldnt he have injured a police officer? If I was a student there during the shooting and I saw a man on the roof, who probably had TOOLS with him, I would assume the worst as well.

Are you suggesting that the police and government WANTED to have a hand in a massacre? Some of your questions are interesting but without cited information you're as unreliable as all of the official reports your talking about. Please enlighten me on why the government would want to randomly kill innocent students at a high school?

The incident was commited by two boys, there are journal entrys from them which support this as well, but I had to reply because your questions are just plain paranoid.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Agree whole-heartedly, and would also like to point out that some of the questions like why would a teacher say they were expecting a fire drill, and why would they have crisis training the week before (or whatever that was) are just a matter of Basic Functions of a School in the Last Decade or so. I'm a teacher, and sometimes we're told (roughly) when to expect a fire drill so that we can plan for it -- (i.e. science teachers would be told so they wouldn't be in the middle of an experiment that couldn't be cut short easily; or, in my case, I'm told EXACTLY when so that I can quickly get my five wheelchair-bound students into their coats, or up from their naps and strapped into their chairs, etc). MOST schools, in the last 10 - 20 years have started some kind of program wherein they have a "what to do if the school is invaded" type of crisis and drills and things are practiced. Granted, *many more* started these programs AFTER Columbine -- but many had them in place before.

So, reading your list as someone who spends her life in the classroom, I had a lot of "well, duh" responses to it. *shrug*

There was no conspiracy in this tragic incident, but there was a cover up. Even as there were more participants than Klebold and Harris, the cover up came as a result of the responders' actions following the initial tragedy.

Some students (and a teacher) were shot by the authorities in response to an unknowable situation. Rather than admit responsibility for a poor (yet understandable reaction), the entire incident was attributed to the two young men.

Even as there were more participants in the massacre than Harris and Klebold, the "investigation" was closed so as to protect the responders that shot uninvolved persons.

In the heat of the moment, it would be reasonable to expect that the responders shot what they honestly believed were perpetrators. That innocent persons were shot is simply a result of the chaos; the cover up was perpetrated to protect those unfortunate shooters.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
...you realize that half of these questions are really, really farfetched?

All of the questions I posed are based on the evidence released by the various investigatory bodies. Start by reading the rest of the posts on this thread.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Please enlighten me on why the government would want to randomly kill innocent students at a high school?

....uh..... false flag attack to panic the sheeple into more tyrannical laws?

'You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game,' he said. 'The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people... to turn to the State to ask for greater security. This is the political logic that lies behind all the massacres and the bombings which remain unpunished, because the State cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened.'
-"Vincenzo Vinciguerra, a convinced Fascist who was a member of the extremist Ordine Nuovo organisation and had close links with Gladio

reply to post by MacDonagh


The site you refer too is an ad site with nothing you claim to be within.