Sea Sheppard Captain shot by Japanese Whalers

Originally posted by gormly

Originally posted by Grommo
No, it's only an assault if you throw something at someone!

grommo seriously?

so much of what you have said in this thread is just so fraught with inaccuracy it's frightening.

Inaccurate? really?

I think you are grasping at straws.

To throw rancid butter on the deck of an inanimate object is assault is it? Really?
But to fire a bullet aimed at someone's heart is what ... constructive criticism?
What accurate term would you use to describe firing a bullet at someone, aimed at their heart?
If someone threw some rancid butter or food thickener onto my patio, or dropped their pie onto the deck of my boat I should scream assault right?
I thought these were meant to be tough seamen, not pansies.
Funny how they can slice up pregnant female whales (reportedly approx. close to 40+% of the catch), and spill the unborn foetus onto their flensing deck yet it is rancid butter that makes them feel like vomiting.


Are my comments about whaling in defiance of Court orders inaccurate?
Do you deny that there are armed military persons on board the whaling ships in defiance of the Antarctic treaties?
Are my comments inaccurate that Japan has been instructed by the IWC not to whale in the southern ocean sanctuary?
Are my comments that there is global moratorium on commercial whaling inaccurate?
Are my comments that Japan does not publish legitimate scientifically accepted peer reviewed papers in scientific journals or present the results of their research innaccurate?
How many minke whales have Japan slaughtered yet why were they ignorant as to the vocalisations of Minke whales untill non-lethal research was carried out by Australian scientists.

Do you also disagree that due to the relative acidity I have outlined, throwing vinegar or orange juice would be more accurately labelled an "acid attack" than throwing rancid butter?
Are my comments about the nature of butyric acid inaccurate?
Can you tell us all the ph of rancid butter and explain to the forum if it is really less acidic than orange juice and vinegar as I have stated.
If I am correct then your statement about my "inaccuracy" in this regard is rubbish.

Are my comments on the use and nature of Methyl Cellulose incorrect? The same applies.


And to fire an explosive and have it detonate inside another creature's body and have it die slowly in agony over 20 minutes is what? What "accurate" words would you use Mr Gormly? Please answer that question before making any other comments.
Pleasant?
It tickles?
Kind?
Humane?
Easing the path to the other side?
Refreshing?
Exhiliarating?
What do you think would be be an "accurate" description.
I have used the description "cruel"
Please explain why this description seems inaccurate to you if you believe it so.


Pro whalers comments here also have condoned attempted murder.

Can you state the number of People killed and Injured by Paul Watson to contradict my comments?

Can you show me video or images or where the Lloyds shipping reports state that whaling ships did not ram protest vessels in all recent years of southern ocean protests?


Can you contradict my first hand knowledge of oral history and archaeology of the Yuin aboriginal nation, my personal associations with Elders such as Max Harrison, Guboo Ted Thomas, Burnam Burnam, Neville Penrith, Ozzie Cruize (some of these persons are now deceased.)

Can you show me archaeological evidence of Japanese whaling in Antarctic waters prior to the 20th century?

In what way are my comments on the Taiji Dolphin slaughter drives inaccurate?
What scientific research has been carried out on the Four finned Dolphin that you can present to us to show my comments are innacurate?

Have a hard look at yourself.

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Grommo]

Omg, again I repeat myself but hopefully with abit more clarity:

The situation would be totally different if it were a bunch of hippies stoned out of their minds throwing flower bouquets and chanting happy songs. This however was not the case. This was a bunch of known terrorist throwing unidentified substances onto a vessel. I suppose you claim that the captain should've been psychic and known that it was just butter. The captain has the responsibility to keep his crew safe and if shots were fired then it was totally legit.

If the whalers want to keep there crews safe, they can stop breaking the law.

I agree... if whale hunters weren't breaking the law, then the whale protectors wouldn't have to resort to vigilantism. It's not like the US coast guard is going to venture all the way out there.

If I know international waters law correctly. A ship has the right to defend itself from those who open fire.

The whale protectors have every right to mount deck guns and sink the whale hunters ship the next time the hunters shoot at the protectors.


I say hunt the whale hunters down. Knowingly endangering a species for a few bucks should carry the death penalty in my opinion.

I'd sink em.

With a big smile on my face.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Omg, again I repeat myself but hopefully with abit more clarity:

The situation would be totally different if it were a bunch of hippies stoned out of their minds throwing flower bouquets and chanting happy songs. This however was not the case. This was a bunch of known terrorist throwing unidentified substances onto a vessel. I suppose you claim that the captain should've been psychic and known that it was just butter. The captain has the responsibility to keep his crew safe and if shots were fired then it was totally legit.

roflmao !!!!!!!

There were no known terrorists aboard the Steve Irwin.
Sea shepherd is not a terrorist organisation.
www.cdi.org...


The poachers of course know exactly what is being thrown onto their decks and sea Shepherd has publicly stated on their website over the last few years what is thrown.
The poachers know well ahead of time what to expect.

Why do you bother to post B.S.?
Do you believe anyone will take your post seriously.

The Steve Irwin crew are attempting to protect and uphold the Un Charter for nature. They are acting on behalf of the Sovereign nation of Australia to protect the Antarctic whale sanctuary, and Australian and French territorial waters and are enforcing the IWC directive to disallow any whaling in the Antarctic whale sanctuary.

You make absurd statements and condone attempted murder.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Omg, again I repeat myself but hopefully with abit more clarity:

The situation would be totally different if it were a bunch of hippies stoned out of their minds throwing flower bouquets and chanting happy songs. This however was not the case. This was a bunch of known terrorist throwing unidentified substances onto a vessel. I suppose you claim that the captain should've been psychic and known that it was just butter. The captain has the responsibility to keep his crew safe and if shots were fired then it was totally legit.

With attitudes like that, it appears the Finnish are finished and I will be writing to my Fisheries Minister requesting denial of access to our territorial waters (wth are they doing down here anyway?...oh that's right, they fished out their own waters)...yes I'm angry, yes I'm intolerant of this ignorance, yes, I'm drunk, but I still know that our waters are ours and they can gtfo.

I may also point out that the Poachers are carrying out no behavioural studies of Cetacean social structures and culture.

As has been determined from Non lethal research of other Cetacean species and other wild creatures such as Elephants, such social groups have key individuals upon which the survival of a much larger number of individuals depend.
Matriarchs of elephant herds are a good example and parents of human families are another. Remove the parents of a group of humans from a large family comprised mostly of young children and the survival of the rest is greatly compromised out of all proportion to the number of individuals removed.

Thousands of whales have been slaughtered but no investigation has been made to the social disruption caused by this. The social groups that are attacked are not tagged and studied as to their social disruption and survival prospects. The poachers just move on and look for other groups to slaughter.... sorry... "Research".

Imagine how our knowledge of primatology would have been compromised if Jane Goodall and Dianne Fossey had wandered about Africa chasing after terrified primates in trucks and randomly shooting Chimps and Gorillas, paying zero attention to their social behaviour and knowing nothing of their calls except their screams of fear and agony as they struggled on the ends of ropes untill they died after many minutes.
Imagine if they then just cut out a few samples from their heads and then cut them up as quickly as possible to sell the meat to bush-meat traders to help pay for their "research".
They might call anyone trying to protect the primates "eco-terrorists" or "too sentimental" and claim Africans have an inseparable cultural tradition of eating bushmeat. Anyone who opposes such primate slaughter of course would be racist.

But no-one would tolerate such behaviour would they? Well, most of the population would not, but I imagine they might have one or two supporters on this forum.




[edit on 13-3-2008 by Grommo]

Well it appears Sea Shepherd and crew are making a difference.

www.news.com.au...


QUOTE
Japan, which says whaling is part of its culture, had planned to kill 850 minke whales and 50 fin whales. Under international pressure, Japan dropped plans to also kill up to 50 humpbacks, beloved by Australian whale-watchers.

Jiji Press said the total catch would likely be somewhere more than 400 whales. Kyodo News said it was expected to be somewhere between 500 and 600.

Cheers
Mungo

The Steve Irwin has headed to port having run low on fuel.

Captain Paul Watson Shot Defending Whales, Strong language advisory. F-Bomb used when man shot.


Japanese Open Fire on Sea Shepherd Crew: Three Injured

Sea Shepherd Captain Paul Watson Survives Shooting Attempt in Antarctica

Japanese Scramble to Spin Shooting Story

Japan Coast Guard protects whalers from terror attack


Sea Shepherd Heads Home As Whaling Season Comes To A Close

Operation Migaloo Homepage with wmv video clips from the Migaloo II shooting.

Speak'

[edit on 14-3-2008 by SpeakEasyOne]

We have received verbal confirmation that the Australian Embassy has been advised by the Japanese that a crew member on board the Nisshin Maru fired “warning” shots. In addition to the lead bullet lodged in Captain Watson’s Kevlar vest, up to seven flash grenades were also hurled by armed Japanese Coast Guard Officers, injuring two other Steve Irwin crew members.

www.seashepherd.org...


SO they admit firing, yet go to all the trouble of making a propaganda film?

Who do the Japanese think they are fooling?

The Japanese people I suspect.

Cheers
Mungo

reply to post by watch_the_rocks


You obviously don't know as much about SSCS as you think you do.
SSCS has never sunk a ship by ramming it. Sea Shepherd never rams ships for the purpose of sinking them. All ships sunk by the SSCS have been in port, and no people have ever been on board.
Ramming ships at sea is for the purpose of asserting our intent, and to cause monetary damages to our adversary. It is, in fact, quite difficult to cause the sinking of another ship by ramming, unless your ship is much bigger than the other, and/or you T-bone it (one ship's bow slamming into another ship's side).

Also, to clear up this "Assault" thing...
Assault can be defined as any type of threatened attack on a person - verbal or any other way insinuated.
It can also mean a military action, but as you can see from the webster post, it's broader connotation is any type of threat, or implied threat:
1 a: a violent physical or verbal attack b: a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces c: a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)
2 a: a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact — compare battery
Battery is actually inflicting harm on someone.
So assault can be a violent action, but it can also be considered assault to simply threaten... so all parties here are guilty of assault, which isn't to say assault isn't warranted.

My personal Opinion

Why are people so uppity about whale hunting? I perosnally don't see anything wrong with whaling as long as the meat is being eaten by someone.

Wouldn't letting the meat go to waste after the scientific research is conducted be a shame?

The same people moan and complain about canada and the seal hunt and I don't understand why people can't make a living.

What is this fanatical religion of environmentalism ever done? harassing good honest people at work? the myth of global warming? etc.

And how is Japan breaking the law? Or do people want other countries to enforce their laws in soverign countries? would you like the united states to enforce their laws in your soverign country? think before you act people you could be opening a pandora's box!!!

Well that be my personal opinion me mateys ah har har har

reply to post by fooffstarr


there is absolutely no need for anyone in this modern world to slaughter these creatures for food. It is a disgrace and the world should band against those countries who still participate in this barbaric practice. I just cannot believe it myself.

Japan was using acupuncture and other special remedies over 2,000 years ago while we were still quite backward - what has happened to them do they think this is intelligent behaviour. Thank God for Sea Sheperd and Paul Watson. I will read everything you have on this and hope the world stops this soon. We must shame them into stopping NOW.

reply to post by Miishgoos


Removing a species, essentially a key component to any environment, from that evolved environment can cause major atmopsheric imbalance.

For instance; what would happen if we caused to rapidly go extinct the existence of worms or ants?

What purpose do they serve? How do they keep the Earth in balance? Can the Earth adjust fast enough? Will another species take over the jobs of those species? Will another species quickly evolve? We just don't know and are trying to rather be safe than sorry until we can know the implications.

Originally posted by Grommo
No, it's only an assault if you throw something at someone!
As the video evidence can show, none of the butter was thrown in the direction of any person.

That is not the point of the exercise. The idea is to distribute the liquid over the deck to cover a large surface area and maximise the evaporation.
Methyl Cellulose was also thrown which is an edible food additive that thickens pies , is used to make kids' "slime". It is part of the "horrific chemical attack" but in reality was intended to make the deck slippery for the poachers.

That sounds like Vandalism and Criminal Damage to me, and making the deck of a fishing ship intentionally slippery is not all that charming either, what happens if the crew slip overboard and drown? then the crew who threw that slime will be in court on something like manslaughter at the very least.

I may not personally like Whaling, I can't accept or believe anything a group of irresponsible activists do or say either. Especially a group that is criticised by Greenpeace of all groups. Also one other thing that irks me about Sea Shepherd is that they cut drift nets and then leave them in the water.... making them a longer lingering hazard to oceanic life as NO ONE comes back to get the nets.

Just remember Humanity are no angels, while the Fishermen or who ever the SS are after at the time may be overly heavy handed in retaliation the SS are not any better especially considering they goad and retaliate back.

And you condone the attempted murder of someone who is trying to protect wildlife

The SS aren't protecting or trying to protect nature properly, what happens if the paint your flinging hits a group sea birds that is feeding on scraps of food on the ship and then die because they gets poisoned trying to clean its feathers.

What happens if those Drift nets you cut loose from their weights and markers and then not retrieve from the ocean are allowed to be washed away to various parts of the ocean by its current never wash up and over the years have all manner of oceanic life get stuck in them they tell others not to litter or leave things in the ocean or flush chemicals into the water ways, what gives them any right to do the same on any level.

If you live by a rule or advocate something you should be setting the example!, if you believe in world peace then you should not use violence or aggression in any way to get what you want, if you believe in cleaning up the environment you shouldn't litter or leave things of your own in the ocean..etc


[edit on 11-6-2008 by Marshall Ormus]

Originally posted by Grommo
Someone earlier labelled him a terrorist. That's Funny!
Someone who has never killed or injured anyone in 20+ years of protest and has striven to defend and protect the lives of countless creatures is labled a terrorist !
What are you smoking? It must be expensive!

So typical of the BS spin from the whalers' camp. The people who slaughter protected species for profit in cruel, inhumane ways and force the toxic byproducts onto their own children are the good guys, and those who strive to uphold international conservation laws and agreements are the bad guys......... riiiiiiight.........

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Grommo]

Don't need to kill someone or a group of people in order to be a terrorist, if I blew up lots of unoccupied buildings and never injured or killed anyone does this mean I am not a terrorist? wrong I would be a terrorist.

Also with regards to the toxic by-products and such stuff, shouldn't the Sea Shepherd's ship the MV Steve Irwin be using something less damaging to the environment then a big clunking heavy oil fueled ship in order to lead by example perhaps a nice big wooden sail powered ship?

Again remember there are two sides to every story, If one group in a spat appears to be very "clean" compared to the other then they are better at manipulating the scene compared to the other group.

Originally posted by johnsky
I agree... if whale hunters weren't breaking the law, then the whale protectors wouldn't have to resort to vigilantism. It's not like the US coast guard is going to venture all the way out there.

If I know international waters law correctly. A ship has the right to defend itself from those who open fire.

The whale protectors have every right to mount deck guns and sink the whale hunters ship the next time the hunters shoot at the protectors.


I say hunt the whale hunters down. Knowingly endangering a species for a few bucks should carry the death penalty in my opinion.

I'd sink em.

With a big smile on my face.

You know humanity aside from regularly endangers the life of millions of species. It also does this to its own species just so various groups can get more land, resources or cash does this mean we all deserve the death penalty?

Yes the Anti-Whaling ships have that right, but then they 9/10 goad (and this as been stated by the Anti-Whalers in this thread) the fishermen and other groups they are harassing into attacking back. By this law the Jap's in this case had every right to retaliate after coming under attack initially, I think they should carry stronger weaponry in order to disable their harassers.

But then I believe that there are better ways (less harmful to people on all sides and decidedly less harmful to the environment) to do this out there.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Yeah, and why is it that food prices are skyrocketing and we already have food riots in some places? Facts say that we should hunt more whales for purely food purposes.

I think that the Japanese government should be severely punished for letting these "research"[not] whaling vessels to do what they did to the crew of The Steve Irwin or any other ant-whaling protest ship and the thousands of whales that they've killed for "research"[not] because these whale are defenseless beautiful, majestic, graceful, jaw dropping and endangered mammals and have coast guard on there that fired at a person of an other country that is out side of there waters is ageist there treaty I fully support the efforts of the crew of The Steve Irwin and vessels like it besides Greenpeace because they "brought a knife to a gun fight" [the Japanese will not learn from pictures]