Mandatory DNA database rejected

Mandatory DNA database rejected

news.bbc.co.uk

There are no plans to extend the DNA database to contain information from all people, the Home Office has said.

The statement issued by the Home Office said: "There are no government plans to introduce a universal compulsory, or voluntary, national DNA Database and to do so would raise significant practical and ethical issues."

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.timesonline.co.uk
news.scotsman.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Police Illegally Seizing DNA from Drivers
Uk dna register for everyone coming soon?

In my paranoid opinion, this is a very good thing. Despite the rest of the article (from what I quoted above) being about how good a DNA database would be, I remain convinced that national databases of any sort that allow instant profiling of any person are wrong. I can't pin my finger on why they're wrong, but I believe they are.

This article links in somewhat with the discussion S.F. Chronicle Exposes 'Elite Control scheme', in that they are both related to the general populace, and what it means to be a private citizen. Are we seeing the first steps towards exposure and resistance of a new world order? (if you are a believer in that, of course)

There seems to be a lot of media spin on this, all towards having a DNA database.



From first additional news link. Emphasis mine.
Now that doesn't scream of spin? They could have said anything there, about privacy laws, about profiling success rates, but no, they immediately, within the first sentence, cast this positive move in a negative light.

From second news link:


Only those suspected of criminal activity?

View all this any way you like, but I know how I see it. And as is said a lot here, I hope I'm wrong.



news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 22/2/2008 by watch_the_rocks]

This is good news!

We really don't need this. And I like that you pointed out that people are beginning to stand up. I hope this trend continues.

reply to post by watch_the_rocks


Welcome to Big Brother - brother! The UK is the most intensely spied-upon nation on earth today - it makes North Korea look decidedly laid back. There are more secret CCTV cameras all over the country than anywhere on earth.

Apparently, the average person is secretly filmed around 200 times a day or so. Mandatory DNA samples are the logical next step - which is why the UK government and police are bitching about this possible EU ruling against it. They'll get their way in the end though - just you watch.

J.

Well just say that this was introduced and some nutter government got in to control in our country. They would have the ability to track anyone down who they feel is an enemy, from journalists to your average person on the street. It is not to be trusted, all this stuff about it will help out with crime is a fair point but i feel the potential cost is too high.

I have a BIG problem with a criminal conviction hanging on DNA evidence collected from a crime scene.
Your DNA collected from a crime scene shows you were there, it doesn't necessarily mean you were there when the crime was committed or that you are guilty. And, given the police and CPS push to meet targets, unless you have a cast iron alibi, backed by several witnesses placing you elsewhere at the time of the crime, you are going to have a hard time beating a conviction.
Take into account as well the shift from the authorities having to prove guilt, to the accused having to prove innocence, and the scope for wrongful convictions increases.

Originally posted by jimbo999
The UK is the most intensely spied-upon nation on earth today

Thats crap. Back it up. May I also suggest you visit my thread:

Lets settle this "UK is a Police State" rubbish, right now..

Originally posted by jimbo999
- it makes North Korea look decidedly laid back. There are more secret CCTV cameras all over the country than anywhere on earth.

Thats utter crap and not only insulting to us in the UK, but trivialises the suffering and hardship of North Koreans. To compare the Uk to NK is offensive, ill informed and downright stupid..

Any CCTV in the UK, be it privately operated by businesses and homes (which is 95% of ALL CCTV in the UK) or by local Government (the other 5%) has to have adequate signs displayed so people know they are being filmed and also provided contact details for purposes of Data protection.

Originally posted by jimbo999
Apparently, the average person is secretly filmed around 200 times a day or so.

Maybe so, but 95% of ALL CCTV is privately operated by businesses and homes and is not even monitored unless a crime is committed, when they will submit CCTV footage to the police for review.

You got a problem with CCTV catching people responsible for muggings, murders and rapes? Because it does. Without CCTV, the Ipswich Prostitute murderer would have been much harder to track and convict.

Originally posted by jimbo999
Mandatory DNA samples are the logical next step - which is why the UK government and police are bitching about this possible

They're not, at least the Government aren't. The Home Office just ruled it out. Read the article instead of believing paranoid BS. The Police, however, are never happy about their current powers. They always get the criticism when something goes wrong, so they always want more power to deal with stuff. However, they don't get to choose their powers, thats the Governments job and no Home Secretary in the world would risk votes on something as unpopular as this.

I don't know - maybe prior to all citizens being put in the DNA database, we should do a 5 years study and enter all government employees & representatives.

Seriously though - I think if they did have such a database the most important thing would be that nobody could be exempt and all DNA profiles would be available to anyone with a computer - that way certain persons couldn't exclude themselves because of position. Or those administering the process couldn't lose the evidence when it was found that a crime had been committed by one of their own. It would not eliminate planted evidence, but it would make for a more level playing field.

I think one of the biggest problems we have is there is a sense of inequality when it comes to bad behavior. If you are in a position of power due to money or your job, you get away with criminal behavior and are often exempt from prosecution. That alone angers the population enough that they don't want to give the police additional tools, because those tools are often misused and not used equally to all persons. If it becomes an us against them we will see revolutions erupt once again.



[edit on 23-2-2008 by verylowfrequency]

There is only one reason that the government would not introduce it.....

It must be too expensive.

Its the holy grail in terms of leader-ship and control, and im guessing that the technology is not quite there yet. You can celebrate it as much as you like, but there will be a situation or omni-corp that manages to introduce it when the technology is at the right price.

Looking slightly further ahead
Eventually it would be required by medical facilities when their technology gets to a certain level.

Its possible that eventually the consumer will even demand it, i mean actually carrying a passport is so 70's, we don't carry gold bars any more do we?

Just a matter time really. Just because its not in the public eye does not mean its not already going on.

The fact they are already trailing some of the hardware, means despite what the home office say, they are interested!


[edit on 23-2-2008 by 2ciewan]

I think its a good thing the idea is being dropped.

The British Governments recent records on data security would suggest that they've thought long and hard about the overall security implications of the scheme.

It also seems to kick into touch the idea of biometric ID cards, which again is a good thing I think

of course cops are going to push for this. the way i see it, its the only logical solution to a problem like:

rapist identified by DNA (not in the data base yet)
rapist identified again on victim 2
rapist identified again on victim 3
rapist identified again on victim 4
rapist identified again on victim 5
rapist identified again on victim 6

they know it's the same guy. but they are powerless to do anything, only because his DNA a not already in the database.

i remember something about a serial killer in florida too. they knew who the guy was based on his DNA matching on all the victims, but he wasn't in the database yet so they cant find him.

Your DNA collected from a crime scene shows you were there, it doesn't necessarily mean you were there when the crime was committed or that you are guilty. And, given the police and CPS push to meet targets, unless you have a cast iron alibi, backed by several witnesses placing you elsewhere at the time of the crime, you are going to have a hard time beating a conviction.

i was reading about DNA databases and they actually free more people from suspect lists and get them out of prison than they do to convict anybody. it seems like DNA is most valuable in serial crimes anyway. in individual crimes DNA is going to need to be backed by more evidence. a convienant store robbery who places the suspect on tape with a black hoodie or something, and then another CCTV that shows the same guy (but not his face) dump it into a random garbage bin can have DNA taken from the hoodie and matched up with the DNA in the databank.

DNA signatures juxtaposed with CCTV is a pretty good safeguard I figure. its not actual DNA so abuse is not as likely as some people suppose.

how about CCTVs rigged with some type of advanced lasers that can read your DNA when you walk under it? might never happen but you know im just sayin.

the only control i see here besides paranoid what-ifs is the ability to control criminals and control justice.

Originally posted by Mr. Ree


how about CCTVs rigged with some type of advanced lasers that can read your DNA when you walk under it? might never happen but you know im just sayin.

the only control i see here besides paranoid what-ifs is the ability to control criminals and control justice.

Well Mr.Ree that was part of the vision in the movie Minority Report everywhere you traveled you were tracked as the little lasers would scan your retina's & then both market products based on your interest when you walked through a department store & of course check with the police database to see if you were wanted.

Though the premise of the movie (future murders dreamed by drugged up psychics then captured by computers so cops can stop them from happening) is a giant leap beyond the reality of our capabilities, most of the rest of the movie is not too far off the mark.




[edit on 23-2-2008 by verylowfrequency]