If you are going to hoax, please do your homework.

Disclaimer: I do not in any way condone lying or hoaxing. But, it's going to be done every single day on here. I feel that if you must, to make your life feel better; you better come hard, and I mean super hard.

Also, I have read the T & C and feel that I fall in line with this post, if I am not, I will gladly take the heat and take any actions seemed fit for discipline.

Some people are going to take this the wrong way, some people will think I am trying to help hoaxers lie better. But, read between the lines, this guide will in essence provide insight so that we can spot them easier.

Analogy:

If a system administrator (a person who has oversight over computer systems) knows how to hack, he can prevent attacks against his network probably better than someone who studied computers in a book.

I am going to pick some widely debated topics and post how they could have been better and more believable.

Also, I am not calling anyone a liar here, but they could have provided better evidence to show that they are indeed telling the truth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Excuse the dramatics of this title. But I felt it would gather attention to the thread away from the hoax of the other guy. I want you to ask away. But please, remember other threads and posting I have written. Don't ask me about anything scientific. I am not a scientist and won’t be able to explain dark matter to you. That’s not my job.

With that said, and the mod's approval. Ask away.

This thread was put in skunk works because a mod says until he can prove he worked at Area 51, this thread will stay in skunk works.

Many asked for some inside information:

-Cafeteria Set-up
-People
-Conversations
-Security Protocols

I can understand not providing security protocols because of the obvious, but, if you are going to go to this extent, if you are going to risk it all and post, you better come with some hard evidence, even if it's fabricated.

He could have posted an id badge, with his name, face, and other identifying marks blacked out. Even a glimpse of the badge could have held more weight. For example:


Source: www.discovery-automotive.com...

I know it's not the best, but you can get an idea.

Also, when people asked about area 51, we have not obviously been inside there, and he could have described more about the inside, the people, the food, and overall atmosphere. Get into details.

Next:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am neutral on this one. But, I do feel for the people who ask for proof.

He left me a birthday card, which said " See you on the other side " which was the same as the book inscription.

Now, he states that he gets a birthday card, granted we don't save every single birthday card, but if you know something as important as people getting taking away for a project and you want explanations, that piece of evidence would hold so much weight.

He could have even went to Walgreens (An American store; general items) and bought a card, wrote some phony message, and scanned it, and posted it here. I am not saying lie, but if you know this to be true, to make people believe you and you are TELLING THE TRUTH, then coming up with a piece of evidence because you lost it, and you know you are going to need proof, I would say that would get you more believers on this board.

Conclusion:

I could go all day, but wanted to keep it short.

If you are going to hoax, lie, or cheat to feel better and feel important, please do so in an educated manner. Do your homework! Don't post a little bit of information. If you are going to go out and risk it all, come hard. Find out as much as you can about that particular subject and breathe and live it.

Edit to fix badge photo.


[edit on 15-2-2008 by jhill76]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by jhill76]

But on the other side, if you are indeed telling the truth, but lost all evidence. You better think outside the box and fabricate, AT LEAST TO GET SOME LISTENERS. I know people won't share my same reasoning on that one; and if you are found out to have fabricated, well, you know the story.

For example:

You are visited by your dead relative; she talks to you and stuff. At the end of the whole ordeal, she says I will leave you something so you know I was here. She leaves her signature on a napkin or something. You are freaked out by this and throw it away. Several years pass and you feel you want to get your story out. But, you know people won't believe you without that signature. IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, if you know you are telling the truth, I don't think it would be wrong to produce a signature to just get your story heard, now in a murder investigation or something like that or in court, of course not. But I can see the arguments.

I would love to be debated on this and hear other peoples take on this. If I offended anyone I truly am sorry. I chose those two threads because they are still fresh in active readers minds here on ATS.

Also to add:

People might think well we don't need evidence for everything. Let this ponder:

If you are accused of murder, and they said, we have no evidence but we know you did it. How would that ride with you?

Surprised no replies. I guess mods you can close this thread.

I think a lot of hoaxsters WANT to look bad. I think they are disinformants out to make ATS look bad so they don't care if the hoax is good or not...in fact, better if it is outrageously bad!

I find it somewhat interesting how so many people are more convinced by a crappy hoax than by something with more detailed information. One of my personal favorites is the "Dropa Stones." I don't know whether this originally started as a hoax, or was simply a bit of imaginative fiction. The story had a few blurry photos and some names that when checked out nobody never heard of.

But this thing continues to pop back up in all kinds of forms and I think it has a lot to do with it having just the right amount of detail to be interesting, but not enough to expose it as a complete hoax. The more details there are, the more things can be checked out, and the more likely a hoax will be exposed. A good hoaxer has to allow the gullible to fill in the blanks on their own. A blurry UFO photo is believed by some people easier than a nice, sharp photo.

The Dropa Stones story is a good one because a lot of it takes place in some remote region of China, where nobody is likely to do any personal investigation.

Personally, hoaxers have their work cut out for them with me. I don't believe anybody until they cough up good evidence. And if something comes from anonymous or questionable source, then it goes right in the dumpster. Around here, whether it has to do with UFOs or any other kind of conspiracy, everybody is guilty (or wrong) until proven otherwise.

reply to post by chromatico


Never thought of it that way on that aspect. That is indeed a good point. They know they can't just come in and say ATS is bad, so they get involved and try to make the site look like a total nut house. Great thinking....

Originally posted by Nohup
I find it somewhat interesting how so many people are more convinced by a crappy hoax than by something with more detailed information. One of my personal favorites is the "Dropa Stones." I don't know whether this originally started as a hoax, or was simply a bit of imaginative fiction. The story had a few blurry photos and some names that when checked out nobody never heard of.

But this thing continues to pop back up in all kinds of forms and I think it has a lot to do with it having just the right amount of detail to be interesting, but not enough to expose it as a complete hoax. The more details there are, the more things can be checked out, and the more likely a hoax will be exposed. A good hoaxer has to allow the gullible to fill in the blanks on their own. A blurry UFO photo is believed by some people easier than a nice, sharp photo.

The Dropa Stones story is a good one because a lot of it takes place in some remote region of China, where nobody is likely to do any personal investigation.

Personally, hoaxers have their work cut out for them with me. I don't believe anybody until they cough up good evidence. And if something comes from anonymous or questionable source, then it goes right in the dumpster. Around here, whether it has to do with UFOs or any other kind of conspiracy, everybody is guilty (or wrong) until proven otherwise.

Exactly, people will believe two lines of text and nothing really concrete. I do blame it on some part of the people to let it go that far. I can't believe that those uncredited threads go on for 50 something pages and the real thought out threads get two pages of replies, simply amazing.

Do you really believe that fabrication evidence to support a true story is a good thing to do!?

That's pretty match what the Us gov did for going to war although their truth was their distorted view and believe.
Now think how far this went and what this caused.

When your fabricated evidence blows, and it will almost certain blow somewhen dont full yourself, your story becomes untrue und you a hoaxer and there is nothing you can do do make it reverse also when your story was ideed the thruth.

You can not do anything worse than fabricating evidence when you have have a true story.
Byway why is it importand that many people believe you? Isn't this absolutly unimportand in that case? The right ones will listen and will be able to judge your story right also with thin evidence about the others you really don't have to care.

I don't doubt a story because thin evidence..I doubt a stroy because I detect contradictions in the story or in the fabricated evidence.

reply to post by g210b


I see where you are coming from. I am just saying, in my own opinion I would not think you out to be a bad person because of it. But I can see your argument. Also, you keep saying you, I don't have a story to tell if that is what you are referring to, I could be wrong but that is how I took it.

I started a thread discussing hoaxes, some time ago. Like you as well, I initially had no readers.

Sometimes, it appears that our society places too much importance on believing something. We forget that, regardless of our belief in its shape, the Earth has probably been spherical for a great part of its existence; certainly by the time humans arrived on it. Clearly, our 'divine heliocentricism' was an insignificant belief, in the face of the galaxies we caught glimpse of.

Readers love stories. When a hoaxer produces a hoax, they aren't just fooling people because it's Thursday. Hoaxers carefully craft a tale which is meant to be believable enough, and in such a way as to elicit sympathy from the audience. For instance, there are usually "authorities" either trying to foil the [hoaxer's] plan ("Secrets "THEY" don't want you to know!"), or gently preventing the hoaxer from providing incriminating details ("They said humanity isn't ready yet: they might be upset if they knew I was telling you this").
The audience is 'psyched' into siding with the hoaxer -- and the hoax takes root.

A hoax is only successful when 'belief' is involved: one only has to believe the speaker. The fact is, though, that anything can be believed and, to a large extent, supported with evidence. That doesn't make everything believable, much less "fact." As long as we remember that even humans are prone to erring, we don't have to get taken on joy-rides, which end with our pockets empty, our mouths agape, and our feelings hurt.

reply to post by Mr Jackdaw


Exactly. It seems as though people love to go for the ride. But when an intellectual thread comes about, something that makes you think, no one seems to want to respond to them.

But a hoax and people respond and people sign up just to reply.

Originally posted by chromatico
I think a lot of hoaxsters WANT to look bad. I think they are disinformants out to make ATS look bad so they don't care if the hoax is good or not...in fact, better if it is outrageously bad!

Agreed. I could see how disinformation agents could be sent to (maybe not all) some well known conspiracy sites and purposely create lies for the sake of trying to paint conspiracy theorists as quacks and not worth listening to. Think 9/11. Everyone here and even outside this site agree that something went incredibly wrong and that the government didn't tell the entire truth. So, in order to avoid any questions from concerned citizens and conspiracy theorists. Create extravagant/impossible lies and make us look like we're crazy so that people end up accepting the government's story, lest they want to be called "crazy conspiracy theorist"

reply to post by Mr Jackdaw



I see what you mean, in one of the hoaxes that the OP quotes above, there was a particular individual who said that people questioning the hoaxer were ruining his/her entertainment because he/she enjoyed reading these kind of threads.

To be honest, that made my blood boil because I honestly don't like to support that idea. If I wanted entertainment or enjoyment, I'd watch american idol or Fox News. Here in ATS I'm more interested in finding out answers and sharing knowledge/eperience with ATSers. I'm not saying enjoyment can't be had... but don't try to pull people's legs by trying to claim a "personal experience" is fact when indeed it was just a hoax. You're only making yourself look bad and to be honest, while hoaxers may get attention, it doesn't mean they will get any respect once they're found out (not from me anyway)

By the way OP, like the area 51 badge a lot! I'd actually consider making it my avatar, but to be honest I still like mine and I don't want to get rid of it just yet.... so instead I'll just mix em he he


[edit on 15-2-2008 by Question]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Question]

Thank you both, Question and Jhill76. As you may have both observed, many people love stories, and are inspired by them. However, stories are recounted differently than experiences. I generally try to watch out for that.

Originally posted by chromatico
I think a lot of hoaxsters WANT to look bad. I think they are disinformants out to make ATS look bad so they don't care if the hoax is good or not...in fact, better if it is outrageously bad!

The only problem I have with this perspective is that, if unchecked, one might presume then that every 'hoax' that appears on this site has been created solely for the purpose of discrediting this site. But as I have alluded before, that kind of attitude is a hoax-magnet, because certain individuals might view it as an invitation. There can be multiple reasons behind a hoax. Until any of those reasons are uncovered, it is usually best to avoid any specific viewpoints