Why don't aliens initiate contact?

Since I'm getting warned about one line posts (remmeber: on ATS quantity is more important then the quality of post), from now on, I'm gonna write every post as a multiple lines poetry:

Why don't aliens initiate contact?
Because some of them read ATS

Why don't aliens initiate contact?
Because they tried posting on ATS

Why don't aliens initiate contact?
But they got warned for profanity, one liner posts

Why don't aliens initiate contact?
They simply quit, figured it's easier to post on cornfields instead

Originally posted by sufusci

3. Cautious of us.
I don't buy this, we have barely scratched the surface of modern weaponry, and we wouldn't stand a chance against a civilisation who has had technology for much longer than us. I certainly wouldn't be scared, I think thats giving us too much credit.

One tack I try to take is to view alien visitors as explorers. Obviously there would be a fuel cost to take 'weaponry' on explorations. We didn't take weapons when we visited Mars, for example.

When I posit this kind of thing, it's more of an exercise in logic and an attempt to distance any conjecture from the 'Hollywood' type of alien contact. I imagine what we do or would do on excursions to other worlds.

So, I'm not saying it's wrong to think of aliens as hostile, or aggressors or at least as imperialistic, looking to conquer territory. I'm just trying as an exercise, to take a different point of view.

In this case, they might have reason to avoid us.

Just a thought.

reply to post by Badge01


Great point. According to some scientists the most likely way to explore would be using self replicating von neumann probes sent out in all directions from your home planet(s). I guess they would probably not contain weaponry, due to their size, but would be able to assemble one if needed perhaps. It could explain sightings of increasing frequency too, if a fleet is being built and is self-perpetuating

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

And to the guy who talked about that bob guy - if I were aliens I would choose someone who isn't clinically insane.

// sufu sci

reply to
post by sufusci


Sorry if I miss any post, but we are forgetting the fact that the aliens are a intelligent society, like dolphins, whales and us, that means they also have opinions, and I think that in the any of the possibilities you listed, any intelligent specie whould 'listen' to the communications, and decode it. We've done this already and we keep doing, just think about the war we had here, both sides were always 'snooping' for information.

Now let's go back to the point.

Q: What our bradcasting media (satellites/TV stations) streams about aliens ?
A: Mostly, movies where they are the bad guys trying to kill us and get beaten, thats the cliché.

Ok, I know that sightings are as old as humanity, even older, but in my opinion, more frequent and common than nowdays.

That led me to these questions:
Do they have any kind of "listening" program ?
How long ?
Could the program start even before we develop the use of photons to transmit our culture globally ?
How to do that ?
Does abductions have anything to do with that ?

I don't know if I'm wrong, and I'm just speculating, but the cases of abduction are becoming very rare, I mean, the rate slowed down. Does that have any relation with our ability of brodcasting information ? Unfortunately that's something very hard to measure, so let's keep it aside.

Ok, in your post I can group the choices in 3 kind, offensive, neutral, and friendly. In any of these groups, they would implement a listening program, first abducting people and 'reading your mind', and later just "wathcing" TV.

If they are attackers, I honestly think they would keep the program for some months and then attack or leave, since they would see we were just post caven-age intelligent animals. I think they would attack if they were looking for resources, and leaving if they were looking for slaves.

If they are neutral, they would implement the program and just listen and wait until something happen or they just got bored and leave, I have to mention the following option too in that class: we could be some sort of a "protected area" on the gallaxy, but were they cant interfere by some reason or law. Anyway they are neutral, and don't want anything with us, even more when we started saying they are the bad guys.

If they are friendly, they would contact, trade and maybe teach us or wait until we're prepared to the contact. The first case sounds like a joke, but could happen, and there are some people that says it happend already, since we're not alone in the universe and the universe is pretty big. On the second case, my only opinion is that they wouldn't contact us because our public images say they are the bad guys, so we aren't ready yet.

Look, I'm not saying we are not prepared for contact nor prepared. I'm saying that we are forgetting to think they are as "human" as us, that includes social networking, liking and dislinking, individuals that interact with others individuals.

Thank's and best regards.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by tiagoratto]

[edit on 15-2-2008 by tiagoratto]

It's a great, great question. I've met people claiming to be from inner earth, people that seemed to be from somewhere else, people who claim to be in contact with Venusians. I've heard the "high vibration / low vibration" excuse and others. I still wonder what "rule" the space people follow that prevents them from just popping up at the Rose Parade or the Super Bowl. They only semi guess I have is that they are not very far away (inner earth or solar system) and they dont want to start an all out brawl between the good guys and the bad guys. Perhaps they "Respect" the karmas humanity on earth is going through and do not wish to pile on Karma by making a formal presence known. May they read the Brookings Illuminati BS ad belief we couldn't handle it? :->

AS John Lear has stated on several occasions, "Contact will come on an individual basis."
This being the case, perhaps not all of the earths beings have evolved sufficiently for contact to happen on a wide scale.
I have watched them via satellite on live streams of NASA tv. Within minutes the program is changed and the pictures scrapped.
My belief is that they use the abundant water supplies on our planet for their transportation systems big and small.
Many of the small scout ships we see are actually gathering water for the larger Motherships docked outside our atmosphere at almost any given day.
Fresh water is what they need. This being said, in the coming years we will see Governments and World banks privatizing water rights worldwide. This way 'they' ensure the contracts with the distant visitors. It is illegal to enter into contract with space visitors, why?
It is also my belief that we are all connected to alien DNA and scientific experiments. All of us ,animal, vegetable, mineral.
Rather than be frustrated over the non disclosure of Governments, try meditating and raising your own level of consciousness which in return raises the levels of everyone and everything.

reply to post by Breadfan


I am sorry that you are having a bad experience here. Please dont take it personally. You are as welcome here as anyone else, just remember the chat room is always open to one line posts. Like the Eagles song sings...

"Take it easy, take it easy, don't let the sounds of your own wheels drive you crazy. We may loose and we may win, but we will never b e here again, so open up I'm climbing in, so take it easy."

Originally posted by ReelView
It's a great, great question. I've met people claiming to be from inner earth, people that seemed to be from somewhere else, people who claim to be in contact with Venusians. I've heard the "high vibration / low vibration" excuse and others. I still wonder what "rule" the space people follow that prevents them from just popping up at the Rose Parade or the Super Bowl. They only semi guess I have is that they are not very far away (inner earth or solar system) and they dont want to start an all out brawl between the good guys and the bad guys. Perhaps they "Respect" the karmas humanity on earth is going through and do not wish to pile on Karma by making a formal presence known. May they read the Brookings Illuminati BS ad belief we couldn't handle it? :->

If you help your child in a test by giving them the answers, do they really know or have learned what they have been taught?

Would you want a surgeon operating on you, who had an administrator letting him or here pass their medical school without the study and due diligence required to be a good surgeon?

If we are allowed to get help out of our social and political problems, what is to say we do not do it all again later, but with more powerful technologies we get from contact and technology advances that then hurt others and not just ourselves?

Simple logic. Let the child fall if they must so they learn to walk on their own.

ZG

The crafts that can dis-assemble by demolecularization are the crafts from a more refined world, the ones that cannot perform that feat Expect it to be our own governments own or one that is part of our local neighborhood.


The ones that are lightships, those are the ones that can go through different layers of the onion.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by menguard]

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Simple logic. Let the child fall if they must so they learn to walk on their own.

Maybe. On the other hand, we let children fall because they don't have the experience, motivation, or the capacity to learn completely by example. When it comes to getting alien information, we're probably not talking about something physical like learning to ride a bike, or do brain surgery, where you need actual experience to do it right. We're talking about grown, rational adults who would be highly motivated to learn about sciences or philosophies that are different and maybe better.

I had this discussion via mail several years ago with Jacques Vallee. It was also his contention that "they" (whoever they are) might somehow be subtly teaching us or leading us toward something, but very indirectly. Kind of like training a horse or dog to do a trick. My argument was that past a certain point in education, like when you start going to college, you become self-motivated to learn. You understand that it's in your best interest.

At that point, nobody has to "trick" you into studying. You'll do it on your own, and work much harder to do it than you would if somebody was just manipulating you from the outside. At that point, the instructors make everything as clear as possible to facilitate your education. There are no secrets. They devise a way to present the information, and show you exactly how to access it. Then it's up to you.

I personally think that anybody (any alien) who knew enough about humanity to provide us with any useful information would know that if they give us a chance, we'll devour new ideas and information at whatever rate they wanted to throw at us. If aliens wanted to give me the Secrets of the Universe, you can bet I'd pull a few all-nighters to study it. They would know you don't have to train us like dogs to do flips. We'll flip all day on our own if you give a good reason to do it.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Nohup]

reply to post by Nohup


Point well taken, and I can't but agree.

Still, the "grown adults" are the ones holding back technology for dubious reasons as many might agree. When they decided to go ahead and detonate the first nuclear fission weapon, with a good % of scientists worried it would ignite the atmosphere on fire, it said something about the character of the "adults", who, being so anxious to offset the Japanese and cold war and balance of power in their favor they would gamble with everyones life. And the whole fricken planet. So, as an alien race, I might not think it was prudent to give Earth science something like black hole technology or superluminal propulsion to dink around with.

"Hey thanks for the Black Hole technology! We brought you one we grew to show you, in our superluminal starship we just made too. If you don't give us more we'll detonate, so It is not quite stable yet but,.... where did you go??? What the! Oh crap, we accidentally sent them to an evil universe."

I have not read Vallee's works, but so respect his reputation and his careful approach. I don't agree with everything he said the other night on C2C, but he would probably respect that. I am very interested in his dimensional physics thoughts. I tend to think that is in play.

And I do think the level of awareness at play in some of these stewarding species if we can say that, have abilities we might call super-intuitive, or trans dimensional and wide-field. They know what might transpire with a fair degree of accuracy when they drop some gear and some of their own people in a fiery crash on some poor suckers ranch in Podunk Backwood Nowheres ville. Maybe they can see the butterfly effect like we know where a billiard ball will go when hit.

In any case I think we are likely managed. I don't even question whether they are here any more. Everything in the sky we can't explain is not AI or robotic.

I too would make such teachings my life work if they gave us the study guide. I would also burn the midnight fusion-bulb to not take it for granted. The problem though is that we are not the norm, nor of the same mind as those more hungry for power over others rather than their own growth and understanding.

ZG

[edit on 2/15/2008 by ZeroGhost]

y? its like this: U are watching a people from a distance. Do you want to be seen. So only a few people see you.

reply to post by sufusci


They will land, when we are ready to welcome them peacefully. So far, we have been shooting them down, and retrieving their ETVs and their bodies, dead or alive. Heck, we don't even considerer them as living creatures, according to some laws in the US.

There is your answer my friend, make peace between the nations, and then peace with them, and maybe they will land and have a cold beer with us

ETD.

Originally posted by ETDisclosure
reply to post by sufusci

 

They will land, when we are ready to welcome them peacefully. So far, we have been shooting them down, and retrieving their ETVs and their bodies, dead or alive.

our land, our rules. Perhaps they should have not try to sneak in without pre approved permission?

My father asked me this question once, and so I answered by asking this question.

Me: "What would you do if you saw an alien?"
Dad: "I'd kill it!"

Enough said I think only a small percentage would accept it. Others would fear it, or try to put fear into others by saying the aliens are evil or some work of the devil.

reply to post by Nohup


"I personally think that anybody (any alien) who knew enough about humanity to provide us with any useful information would know that if they give us a chance, we'll devour new ideas and information at whatever rate they wanted to throw at us. If aliens wanted to give me the Secrets of the Universe, you can bet I'd pull a few all-nighters to study it. They would know you don't have to train us like dogs to do flips. We'll flip all day on our own if you give a good reason to do it."

Nohup, that is exactly what I believe. As a scientist I believe this is exactly what they should do *if* they were here.

As for "raising your consciousness" arguments further up in the thread, I don't buy it for a minute. Let me state this: I don't believe in magic.
In my opinion, Aliens won't empower those who believe in magic, as they couldn't get here without GOOD SCIENCE. Remember, any sufficiently advanced technology is perceived as magic to a society who can't understand it. But it still USES the fundamental principles of experimentation and replication. Belief in magic/fairies/gods that aren't there wouldn't give you points if I were the alien! Faith if correct will pay off, but otherwise its useless. Belief in such things is not going to make interstellar travel possible, but it sure can hinder it.

//sufu sci

Some more points:

1. If the aliens wanted to be seen, they would be. No one could cover this up.
2. People seem to be forgetting about the time problem. Given we have only really been advanced (space faring) for 50 years, its more than likely not enough time to get to us.
3. Anyone who says we already have this technology should be taken with a grain of salt. I have worked with scientists who have worked in NASA space programs and there is no one there who has access to technology like this.
4. Anyone who says they have been contacted & talks about it is probably lying or deluded. The likelihood an alien would contact someone who would talk/write a book about it without telling everyone else themselves is pretty small. It seems completely counter-intuitive - if the person is going to tell, why would the alien not just announce?

Please stop talking about things that are pure conjecture. This includes john lear (all unsubstantiated) and others. There's no point talking about "beliefs" as all we can go on at the moment is what we know for CERTAIN. This would include:

1. Aliens have NOT made contact to the general populus.
2. A lot of the "sightings" can be explained away (atmosphere affects, local craft, "lucid" dreaming etc).
3. Our current knowledge believes the speed of light is a maximum, putting restrictions on flight time and thus time to reach a population.
4. We are currently scanning for any signals and have found nothing reputable thus far.
5. We have travelled ourselves to other planets and have encountered nothing.

So any other ideas? If the aliens are here, why would they not make contact?

Originally posted by ThreeNF
My father asked me this question once, and so I answered by asking this question.

Me: "What would you do if you saw an alien?"
Dad: "I'd kill it!"

Enough said

I think only a small percentage would accept it. Others would fear it, or try to put fear into others by saying the aliens are evil or some work of the devil.

Absolutely agree. But as the world wakes up thanks to richard dawkins and other logic-based thinkers, our chances increase every day. We know that the majority of the world believes in "gods" or other things (conspiracies, magic etc) - perhaps what the aliens are waiting for is a belief in science! Hows that for controversial!

Oh, one last thing:

If the aliens did come and ask people to spread the message, why would they ask us to "believe"? Why would they ask us to buy ebooks or videos or memberships? They wouldn't.

They would just come right into the superbowl and announce. They surely would realise at least by now that most of the earth is blinded by faith, and wouldn't need yet another "belief" to fight for minds.

reply to post by sufusci


i whole heartedly agree. i find it quite amazing how people will readily believe anything they want, because they want to.

personally i am of the opinion that aliens do exist, somewhere, just not here.

think about it, an alien species is extremely intelligent and has developed a method of travelling interstellar space efficiently (we will allow that they have managed to somehow overcome the universal maximum that is the speed of light). we can assume that they didnt just HAPPEN upon the technology, it probably took a very long time to develop. that said we can assume in their early years of communication they must of at some point, or probably still do, rely on em waves to propagate the required signal.
just like we do. from the day we started broadcasting, we have have been broadcasting into space, the signal can be found in a shere,with the earth st its center, with a radius of about 60 lightyears or so. so if this alien race is say a couple of centuries ahead of us (this is a minimalist speculation) then their signals would be in asphere of 200 lightyears radius. now we've been listening for a long time and not picked up anything, so we can assume that they are not in our local vicinty (relative to how big the galaxy is). you could argue that the passed through our broadcasts and decided to go and investigate, but why would they be near here, apart from us there is nothing nearby, so they have little reason for being close to us in the first place.

it is also interesting to note that vertibrates almost didnt make it. if they hadnt, we wouldnt be the dominant species on earth, it would have been overrun by giants wasps and stuff. eeewwh