Holocaust survival

I have recently been reading up on the holocaust. It seem that the people blindly followed the authorities and did whatever that they were told. From what I have read many just did not think that the concentration and death camps could be true.
Will we as americans fall for the same trap? Many here say no, but we have not been through that experience.
I was wondering if there are any survivors from this that might give the readers here some insight as to what was going on in the minds of those being persecuted and later executed.
I in no way want this to turn into a debate as to weather or not the Holocaust actually happened or a bashing of the Jewish people. I am sincerely interested in the mindset of the time and how people reacted. I certainly don't want history to repeat itself in the same fashion.
If we can learn from this page of history we might be better prepared for the future.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Unfortunately, we are not all "John Rambo" or "Jason Bourne". When authorities tell us what to do, as tough as many of us think we are... we will still fall right in line and do what we are told.

I think there are very few real "rebels" that would cut and run when the stuff really hits the fan. I think that for the most part, the average Joe would cry and moan, but in the end still do what they are told.

I think that if a holocaust type scenerio ever happened in the US, it would happen in a very similar manner. People are people after all and many would still think that this type of thing could never happen to them and that the government would never do this sort of thing.

The biggest deterrant from this type of thing happening in the future, IMO, is mass media. The hopes that info on it happening would leak out and it could be stopped sooner. Although, with the cable cutting going on now, it is being shown that steps can still be taken to control information to the rest of the world.

reply to post by Karlhungis


I can't really deny your logic and hindsight is of course 20/20. I just find it hard to believe that so many would go complacently to their deaths.
It seems worthy of study to find out the way that the masses were manipulated to achieve an end result that nearly wiped out a race of people.
I have heard it said that many of the guards had no ammunition for their weapons?
The social and mental aspects of this phenomenon astound me. This is not meant to belittle those taht this happened to, just an attempt to learn and understand.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Well I definitely would not march in line with the lemmings I never have and never will... and as far as the mass media being a last hope I would forget about that the media is owned lock stock and barrel by the CFR and the same people that would have you marching in line.

Mass media is nothing new everyone had a radio when Hitler did what he did and people still chose to ignore what they were hearing, it is no different today people like in hurricane Katrina will be standing there like Cuba Gooding Jr in Jerry Maguire fitfully screaming help me help me (love that scene) and standing waiting for their handouts and help instead of helping themselves that is unless of course there is a pair of Nike shoes in it for them..


two cents spent
Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 2/4/2008 by geocom]

Lately there seems to be a growing awareness and concern for the possibility of mass genocide being executed against the American population. It has been and still is being practiced in various places worldwide ever since WWII Germany. This can be accomplished in many ways other than summarily marching the population off to gas chambers. I believe that most likely that type of execution will be a last stage cleanup after accomplishing most of the task in more obscure ways.

I expect the first stage will be some type of a devastating virus being unleashed on the people. As that takes it's toll the growing social unrest will also add to the death toll. At some point it will be time to "cleanup". By then the people will be so demoralized they'll gladly report in for protection. I want to be wrong but I think that's how we'll be brought into that mindset.

Reluctantpawn, that is a very important question and very timely. The best first defense we have is to understand what we see happening. You can't deceive someone who understands. Life should be a constant attempt to understand. Thanks for bringing this up.

Basically it boils down to the law of 5%. That in a group of 20 people 19 of them will follow the actions and determination of 1 person. By manipulation or extermination of the one you can control the other 19. The problem being if the other 19 see the loss of the one as a martyr or not.

The FEMA death camps (if that is what they truely are) will be where the 5% will be discovered and converted, removed from the general population or outright executed.

While the government would like to believe themselves to be the 5% of the nation...it also applies to them as well. Out of the 500 and some representatives in the US House of Representatives I can only name about 6 or so off the top of my head.

We can name more senators but how many honestly heard of John Kerry before his bid for the presidency? It works with celeberties as well. There are many bit actors and actresses that people on the whole never hear discussed. Always the "yeah, that guy that was on that one show" actors.

Surviving after being caught (which is what I think the OP was getting at). Basically try to blend in with the 19 as much as possible. Think carefully as to your personal and group actions. Basically keep your head down and appear to go with the flow but always be aware and ready for the right opportunity. Check the risk versus reward on a planned escape or coup. Watch their propaganda, be able to spout it on command. Make yourself look like you have been educated. But always be aware and ready.

i know you wanted survivors, i am not but i would like to post anyway.as for myself, i am preppared and ready for a variety of scenarios, i am disabled though so there are certain areas of weakness wherre i have to rely on the 'system' for assistance. this could be one way in which i could be led to slaughter. the other way is my family. i believe that my family comes first. my youngest child is thirteen, and my wife is employed by the school system. so if 'they' gained control over the schools (a very likely scenario) then i would probably fall in line in the hopes that there would be no retribution. remember, at first we would not be aware of the dire results awaiting us. just that we are being rounded up in a cenreal location (like the american japanese during WW2) hope that sheds a little light on possible reasons for compliance

reply to post by Ahabstar


Consider this...We here, right now, are the 1-in20's determined to plan, prepare, aid and rebuild in the event of social catastrophe, that is what our small survival forum is dedicated to...the first thing would be to appear UNeducated UNprepared UNarmed and a UNthreatening and only by doing so, can we 'fly under the radar' of those in panic, those who are not prepared, those in authority, and those who would choose to detain us to preserve a compliant status-quo.

reply to post by SemperParatus


Semper ,
I pray that this is not what is to befall us. But then isn't that exactly what the Jews felt!
Certainly I am not one to follow others. There are members in my immediate family that would not think twice about turning me for reform. They believe that I am utterly paranoid and that I follow nonsense. They are incapable of forming an opinion themselves or doing the leg work. In their words it is simply unthinkable that the govt. would take any measures such as this. They are here to help us. They cannot even fathom REX 84 or operation Garden Plot.
I am not sure what I would do if they held my family hostage in the school system. I see this as a real threat to help keep the people in line.
As to flying under the radar, I think that it may well be too late for that. I am almost positive that I have made a list somewhere.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


I have the same thoughts about 'making the list' here RP...whilst your family may not believe you, it is imperative that you hold firm to your beliefs, as one day, at least 19 strangers and community members will!

:peace:

reply to post by reluctantpawn

As to flying under the radar, I think that it may well be too late for that. I am almost positive that I have made a list somewhere.

There are always precautions that can be taken. For instance, if you're always talking about going to a particular location, don't go there. Never do what any profile on you says that you will do. That is as far as I'll go about that on a public forum. Just a little food for thought. Sun Tzu is an excellent read.

Yeah, I am quite on a few lists for sure for things, organisations and people I have known over the years. No, I am no Billy Badass or anything like that. Most would note me as a "good guy to be treated with respect".

As for other lists. They very well may say execute with extreme predjuce just to be sure. As far as the gov't having their act together in order to round up the "evil doers" they have problems sending mail to proper addresses. Shades of SunTzu to give false securty, maybe. But I believe more in their comparmentalised incompetence as a whole to be a positive factor in any escape from problemed situations.

The actions surrounding Katrina are a wake up call for sure. But that was New Orleans. The rest of Louisianaand Mississippi could have cornered, contained and eleminated that small force with no problem. Re-enforcements would have had several hunderd miles of land to get through to help the pinned soldiers had that have been the Sit-X that we needed to defend against.

And yes, I did happen to be in NO a few months afterwards. Very few street lights were replaced and mounds of trash were piled on many street corners. It looked for all the world like a medivel city than what I recall of NO in 1989.

I have problems with the US take over scenario on the grounds of 5% of 300million is still 15 million. 15 million that are spread out across the country and no idea what their loyalites are would be a scarry proposition to any would be dictator.

But I think it should be pointed out that the Law of 5% deals with natural leaders not resistance fighters or survivalists. Leadership maybe be counterproductive or complimentive to the state of things. Even today we have militant pacifists like PETA, Greenpeace, MADD, Moral Majority, Scientology...etc. that have their own agendas that lead their groups of 19 that would be at odds to the facist state as well as the resistance fighter or the survivalist that just wants to be left alone. These leaders and their followers would still be out there too.

Everyone knows that Joesph Smith formed and lead the Mormons. Few know that he had a city with its own milita in Missouri or that he was going to run for President of the US before his death by a mob.

I too, have had a long time interest in WW2 and the things that proceeded it, amoung these factors was how Hitler polarized public opinion against the jewish population.
The second step was to convince the jews that they were being relocated for thier own safety and well being.
It's my understanding that there were rumors in the jewish community about the camps, but the majority couldn't or didn't want to believe the rumors.
In addition you must remember that Hitler came to power right after WW1. He ran on a platform of reconstruction of a desimated economy.
Gradualy the goverment was accepted and trusted to fix what was wrong in Germany right after thier defeat in WW1.
So you have several social factors at play.
First polarizing the public opinion. ( divide and conquer )
Second Govermental control and intervention in all aspects of peoples lives. ( Big brother/governmnt)
Third , Blind obediance to authority figures ( at no time did the guards out number the people they were guarding. )
Fourth control of the media. ( tell the people what opinions they should or should not have)
Fifth and most important FEAR, make people fear ( in the case of germany it was the Jews, in the case of the Jews, it was fear for thier own safety )
I see a contagion as a very real possibility as it easily fits all the preceeding critera for manipulation.
In addition to that look at the real defferences and similarities between Martial law, and a Quarantine .
In the case of a mass hysteria following a much publisized outbreak of a disease the people would not only welcome the military on thier streets, but would probably demand them there.
It was once said " the only thing we have to fear, is fear it's self"
I understand that to mean watch out for those who try to tell you whom and what you should be afraid of.

reply to post by 1ShotDeal


excellent 1shot! That is the type of insight I was searching for.

What would make the people follow blindly as the were destroyed. I have a hard time trying to fathom standing in line to go to the gas chamber. I can't say what these people thought because I wasn't there. We must understand the times and the mental state of the Jews in particular.

Why didn't they believe the stories? Why, when they were hated did they trust the govt.? I am not being critical here, I just want to understand the thinking of the Jewish community.

I am beginning to see many parallels to our society today in the U.S. Will the American people stand by and watch history repeat itself? Who will be the Jews this time? The illegal Mexicans? The Muslims? The right wing Christians?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


That whole period is a facinating study in human behavior and manipulation of human behavior.
The jews trusted the goverment because they were the authorities one should turn to when they are assaulted or abused.
It's a dirty little secret but alot of things came out of the third reich ( sp ) that are still the " gold satandard" of today. For instance the Volkswagen ( People car literaly translated) was developed and manufactured in responce to Hitlers promise to give every family in germany afordable transportation. Alot of the labor used in the factories during WW2 was jewish slave labor. All that aside the brand is still around and the simplicity of design and manufacturing were emulated by alot of companies after WW2.
Alot of horrific experimentation on live humans was conducted at the camps, but much of the information gathered from these experiments provided seed technology for alot of the medical advancments we enjoy currently.
Himmlers technigues using propoganda and disinformation to manipulate public opinion was still taught at " The School of The Americas " when i was an alumni.
NASA wouldn't exist except for the german scientists imported from Hitlers labs during " Operation paperclip".

Human nature is a funny thing. One thing that makes us so easy to manipulate is that most people can't imagine anyone being capable of things they themselves are not capable of.
Just as a child can be lured into a van by a predatory monster, because the child is too innocent to imagine the things the human monster is capable of.
Another thing to remember about the jewish community is that they are very steeped in the history and traditions of thier race and religeon. Unfortunately for them thier history is also filled with stories of enslavment and persecution.
They made the perfect victims as they were in effect a culture of victims. Even thier God had on several occasions punished them in horrific ways.
My interest started becuase I had 6 uncles involved in the invasion of europe. One died at Normandy, One was trained by the Brits as the first cadre of the 75th Rangers ( my old outfit) 2 were with the "Big Red One " 1st infantry, and 1 was a gunner on a tank under Paton.
The 2 that were with the infantry and the 1 who was with Paton, all witness the condition of the Jews when the camps were liberated.
They actualy had a chance to see and talk with the survivors in the camps. many years later, as they would tell me of thier experiences during the war these stone faced ex grunts would actuly sit and cry when discribing the inhumanity they had seen.
They spent decades not talking to anyone about thier time in the service, but they chose to share with me in order for me to learn by thier expereince how to live with my own nightmares.
I agree, it's easy to see many parallels between Nazi Germany and now. It doesn't keep me awake at night, but it does cause me to keep my gear in order, and an eye on current events.
There are a few people i trust with my back beacuse we have shared a history that has proven thier trustworthiness, but in general the only one I
trust completley is sitting at my key pad right now. ( and sometimes I have to wonder about him LOL )
Anyhow. good luck on your search for knowledge. As the sayings go " Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it", and " for warned is for armed "
Ps.
As an after thought I know alot of folks in goverment are better educated than I am. That makes it hard for me to believe they are repeating errors of the past without knowledge and forthought.

reply to post by 1ShotDeal


First thank you for your service to our country. I may not like what our govt. is doing but I certainly appreciate those that gave part if not all of their lives to keep us safe. I too have seen things done, that people would not think should be done. Much by those in service to our country. All that aside, I concur with you on the fact that many people just do not comprehend the evil that is often perpetrated on our fellow man. This in itself may be one thing that allows it to begin all over again.

respectfully

reluctantpawn