How much of Ufology is disinfo or just BS ?

Its seem the older i get and as time drags on you start to hear the same old claims from the same old people, then you start to wonder how much of Ufology is disinfo or just plain ol BS ?. Im willing to say that 95% of Ufology is BS or have just takens half truths from the other 5% in the know or the government have inserted the BS where need be. After all the best way to hide a piece of gold is in a tonne of fools gold and this is the current state of Ufology, spending your time sorting the wheat from the chaf.

I'd probably file this post into the "chaff" bin as its just an attempt to get people to answer to a ridiculously simple question but thats just me

reply to post by helium3


I'll have to agree with you.

If you look back to the time of the first sightings, way back when it wasnt "cool" to have seen something strange in the sky. The stories very much more different then today.

Now that it has become as "cool" as religion, there are basically 100's of sightings reported every day.

It's a classic case of people seing what they want to see, and that makes it very hard to tell the real sigtings from the "cool" sightings.

I'll even top your statement and say 99.5% BS and leave 0.5% for the sake of it.

What they'd like to tell you is "UFOlogy" is more biased and perspectual rubbish then it is facts.

Attaching ology to UFO is drama rather then fact. to affix ology to ufo is to assume "the scientific study" of UFOs. Scientific study requires the ability to do double blind studies to check for results that can be PROVEN.

Being that UFOs are Unidentified Flying Objects and have no means for measurements of any frequency, thus not only could such "tests" be reproduced, they couldn't even be produced once.

This is from known understandings in the public eye.

So the term itself UFOLOGY or UFOLOGIST is a false front and bogus. This would make all the infomation out of such stupid groups disinfomation.

I'd rather someone call themselves a UFO historian.

reply to post by helium3


According to MUFON, The COMETA Report, The Disclosure Project, The National UFO Reporting Center, and UFO Magazine, 90 - 95% of all the reports are BS in one way or another. Be it a mental instability, hoaxes, or misidentification of natural phenomenon, or observational errors. That last, small percentage of reports are credible. I'd even argue that they are actually true. There's alot of data to support the ET hypothesis of UFOs. But you have to dig through alot of crappy information, government disinformation, incomplete reports, fake reports, and Official Stance. After you're done with that, you have to deal with ridicule. Ridicule amongst your peers, the media, and the government. You have to expect to see lots of resources devoted to discrediting alot of research. And you have to start from square one very often. This is the problem with UFOlogy, it's such a strange concept that it inherently carries with it a level of mysticism. And this mysticism adds to the level of disbelief and dubious information, and blurs our ability to discern what is and isn't real and correct information. This make UFOlogy inherently displeasing to keep up with by anyone other than the most patient of people. It is also easy to get discouraged in this field of study, as well as it is to lose perspective. And the very nature of this study field, as created by the government, is designed to psychologically break down all but the most robust and well informed of researchers. Everyone else is left to argue about it, and deal with the social stigmas attached to it.
To me it just makes it all the more fun. And it really is like being on a different planet once you've dug deep enough. I've don't see the planet Earth the same as I used to. That alone is enough to scare the hell out of almost anyone.

Keep digging and keep asking questions. That's the best way to go about it. And don't get discouraged.


[edit on 3-2-2008 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-2-2008 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by BionicEBE
I'd probably file this post into the "chaff" bin

Sadly its thinking like that im sure pays people like Al Bielek rent. If people wanna believe 100% of what people say that fine, but how is that getting us closer to the truth ?. Sadly its witness likes pilots that having nothing to gain and everything to loose by coming forth with there stories and people like Bielek that get WAY TO much press, hence my first statement

[edit on 3-2-2008 by helium3]

Originally posted by Incarnated
Attaching ology to UFO is drama rather then fact. to affix ology to ufo is to assume "the scientific study" of UFOs. Scientific study requires the ability to do double blind studies to check for results that can be PROVEN.[...]

So the term itself UFOLOGY or UFOLOGIST is a false front and bogus. This would make all the infomation out of such stupid groups disinfomation.

I disagree with this assessment. And I think you are confusing UFOs and Aliens.

UFOs are a fact - there are unidentified flying objects in our skies. They have been photographed, they have been recorded on video, they have showed up on radar, and so on.

Their origin and their nature however is what hasn't been proven yet.

The same way that astronomers and cosmologists don't know what dark matter is made of or how to capture it, but they have observed it's influence on galaxies and the Universe. The search for dark matter is hardly unscientific.

Of course there's a lot of people in Ufology who do not follow scientific methods for searching and researching UFOs, the same way that there are quacks in all fields of science.

Originally posted by danx
I disagree with this assessment. And I think you are confusing UFOs and Aliens.

UFOs are a fact - there are unidentified flying objects in our skies. They have been photographed, they have been recorded on video, they have showed up on radar, and so on.

Their origin and their nature however is what hasn't been proven yet.

True, however it doesn't take an 'ufologist' title to analyze a video/photo/story of an UFO, a lot of people here on ATS do that on their free time. However, when names like Jaime Maussan start popping up I get disgusted. The only difference between him and the rest of us is that he makes money out of the UFO phenomena, however that one difference gives him the title of 'UFO expert' or 'ufologist'.


[edit on 3-2-2008 by daniel_g]

The Falcon and the Snow-Job

The above link may be of interest to the readers of this thread.

It collects the information on CIA / AFOSI manipulation of the UFO studies and UFOlogy and sets out in clear terms the control and manipulation strategy represented by the Zeta Reticuli mythology.

Originally posted by daniel_g
True, however it doesn't take an 'ufologist' title to analyze a video/photo/story of an UFO, a lot of people here on ATS do that on their free time. However, when names like Jaime Maussan start popping up I get disgusted. The only difference between him and the rest of us is that he makes money out of the UFO phenomena, however that one difference gives him the title of 'UFO expert' or 'ufologist'.
[edit on 3-2-2008 by daniel_g]

That's quite true and the fact is that many others, beside Jaime, who have built their lives on regurgitation of the same old crap over and over again, are considered UFO experts of some kind. Hell, I think we are helping it happen here, all we are doing is repeating what we read or seen elsewhere and peddling the "agenda" further.

The field had not seen truly new information in two decades, it's all the same stuff, rewritten in yet another edition of the book or another title. And the lights in the sky keep showing up as if they are perpetuating the conspiracy of lousy reporting and objectivity.

To make the matter worse we get our heads turning every time a new video with bright lights in the sky shows up on the Net, or a shadow that could look like anything on our (or a distant world) pops up in some photo. These are all the tools of psyops which are ensuring that we are fully distracted from real issues that are going on around us right now.

And let's not even start on the profiteers in the field who have built their names around stale information, or using fabrications because masses want more and are willing to part with their money so lacking the real stuff they make it up as they go.
It's ever slightly pushing the envelope, testing how far they can go to squeeze a few more views, dollars, presentations, dollars, fake photos, dollars, bribed testimonies, dollars...

At least the UFO/paranormal field is not such where they would go as far as killing us to make a buck...like some other more corporate fields (cough*pharma*cough)

The thing that destroys credibility and hinders progress, in my opinion, is the attaching of UFOs to asinine conspiracy theories. Most of which you can find discussed at this very forum. Hundreds of them.

Honestly, it makes the UFO-believing community look like a bunch of crackpots.

The word "disinfo" has been run and run and run to the point where people cant make up their minds.... .think about that for a second. Why are you even asking this question ... their plan has worked....

But.. there is one way you can figure everything out.... And "they" will tell you your crazy or wrong... thats how you know your on the right track.. cuz they dont want you to know these things...

Trust yourself.. and beleive what you feel is correct.. that will be right

and the fact that your asking makes me presume you allready know the disinfo stuff and how its crap... but you doubt... so your searching/asking for answers but .. you may not recieve the answers you seek because the powers that be.. will NEVER tell you the truth.. thats why you must trust your feelings for there you will find the truth....

Stop doubting!!!!!

Originally posted by Lokibear
The thing that destroys credibility and hinders progress, in my opinion, is the attaching of UFOs to asinine conspiracy theories. Most of which you can find discussed at this very forum. Hundreds of them.

Honestly, it makes the UFO-believing community look like a bunch of crackpots.

Your a destroyer of truth! This post up here is a good example of "subtle pro-system and truth discrimination.

This is the stuff that keeps us doubting and beleiving lies.

Originally posted by danx
I disagree with this assessment. And I think you are confusing UFOs and Aliens.

(blah blah)

Of course there's a lot of people in Ufology who do not follow scientific methods for searching and researching UFOs, the same way that there are quacks in all fields of science.

You don't disagree with me. You disagree with what you wanted me to say that I didn't. You don't have anything to disagree with.

My point was UFOlogy is a unrealistic name and so anything coming up from the sudoscience would be disinfomation.

You state that people are not going to follow the scientific method. Thus is is a sudo science.

So you see? You actually agree with me.

I never said UFO's don't exist. It's known they do.

However If I drop an apple. It will fall.
you can get an apple and drop it and it will fall.
gravity is proven.

You CAN't get a ufo upon request. There is no scientific method.

It's a bunch of wankers and wannabees wasting time and arguring vainly.



[edit on 4-2-2008 by Incarnated]

reply to post by helium3


If someone is going to look you in the face and without lauging at themselves tell you they are a "UFOlogiest", they think too highly of themselves and don't know what reality is.

UFOlogy = 100% pure grade A BSology.

reply to post by Lokibear

Well if you're not into 'conspiracy theories' and not making connections and labelling the membership here as 'crackpots', then why are you here? Surely we are here to discuss possibilities and far-reaching consequences, and a lot of the alien issue is tied up to our mysterious origins / history / controlled society here on earth. Secrecy, suppression of reverse-engineered free energy technologies etc for example. We can't help but try and connect the dots the best way we see fit.

Yes, there is disinformation in almost everything we read. That is true. But it's not maliciously done, it is passed on as one genuinely believes or has been told by their sources. This is the beauty of compartmentalisation - this is how the secrecy is maintained.. so no one sector knows the total truth. To gain further understanding of this issue, please watch the Richard Hoagland video interview over at Project Camelot, he can express it far more succinctly than I can:

www.projectcamelot.net...

And if you think "oh that guy's just another BS artist", I challenge you to watch the video first before committing fingertips to keypad. He has a lot of interesting stuff to say on this subject - weeding out the disinformation, and construction of 'the lie'.



[edit on 4-2-2008 by RiotComing]

[edit on 4-2-2008 by RiotComing]

Isnt this argument as old as "UFO sightings" themselves, is it just to easy to cry "show me your evidence" everytime a new case appears.

I am a skeptic.... but as skeptics shouldnt we bend a little when reading various cases, especially here. How can we expect people to produce more evidence when all they have is a home made clip on their hand held video recorder.

And what about the people themselves, that see these UFOs, how many of them out there feel "awkward" or "embarrassed" about telling their story. And in their mind they know full well that they will be ridiculed by us, but still they come forward. Why, wheres the logic in that?

I think for this argument to progress, one side (skeptics or believers) has to give a little, and I think it should start with us. Lead by example...

Nice thread...

Regards,

JQ.

reply to post by helium3


You can also throw a 'crazy' into that mix with half-truths, false assumptions and good old BS. Back in the 1990s my friends and I were members of MUFON. We went to their Annual International UFO Conferences. The very first thing that I released was there were many people attending these conferences that I would call 'crazy.' I hate using that term on people but I honestly do not know how else to describe them. In simple conversations I realized these people had emotional problems. And I'm not talking crazy like the ATS reptilian posters - most of which can form sentences and present cohesive arguments - even though I laugh at the videos. These people I met claiming to be UFOlogists were one step away from a loony farm. Some were funny and some were down right disturbing.

All that being said - I also made some great new friends from those conferences and I heard some of the best UFO information ever in speeches and presentations. I also listened to people who I really believed may have been abducted by aliens.

The biggest thing that I learned about UFOlogy from the MUFON conferences in the 90's was that UFOlogy is a circus. I find it amusing that people believe Government Agents are planting disinformation. I don't believe it. From my experience there is no need for disinformation from Government Agents. The (crazy, attention whoring, money grubbing, etc.) real people involved in UFOlogy plant much more damaging disinformation than any government agency. If you want to research UFOlogy then be prepared to weed through the muck. And good luck, after 10 years I decided that it wasn’t for me anymore and moved on. I still enjoy new UFO events but I do not have any more delusions that disclosures are coming or that anything is going to change soon.

I believe a lot of it is disinformation and B.S. For example, I always saw Corso's book as misinformation with respect to Roswell and what happened because of it. I know some people firmly believe what Corso wrote but the government wouldn't ever let that slip out. I think the truth is shrouded in his book with respect to E.T. crafts crashing there but not with much of it surrounding the story.

That goes for a lot of other things too.

Originally posted by RiotComing


www.projectcamelot.net...

And if you think "oh that guy's just another BS artist", I challenge you to watch the video first before committing fingertips to keypad. He has a lot of interesting stuff to say on this subject - weeding out the disinformation, and construction of 'the lie'.


[edit on 4-2-2008 by RiotComing]

Yes but out that, you get what he wants you to believe is true. Doesn't make you any better off.