How Much Health Care Are YOU Entitled To?

How Much Health Care Are YOU Entitled To?

www.stuff.co.nz

New Zealand
Wellington mothers are being "bribed" with $100 grocery vouchers to leave hospital within six hours of giving birth. The policy, set to take effect during December and January, will put pressure on mothers who are most in need of support and leave vulnerable babies at risk, clinicians and women's health advocates say. "My midwife was horrified. This is treating women like numbers, that is if you push your baby out quick enough, here's your $100 reward."

(visit the link for the full news article)

I live in an apartment complex where one resident has a grand-daughter who was born with half of her intestines outside her body. She had other problems too and is none too bright. She’s now 3 years old and $2 million into medical care costs. Even if the child’s parents did not have insurance, it would not matter now because almost all our policies have a $1 million cap.

Had this tragically malformed child been born before the 1950s or 1960s, the delivering doctor would have quietly placed the child aside and asked the head nurse to call him when he she or it had expired. The hospital records would show the infant to have been “still born.” The mother would have been assured they did “all they could” for the child (which is no lie). It was generally understood and widely accepted that such children should be allowed to die peacefully. The child I mentioned has had more than 40 surgeries which must itself be a record for surgeries without contracting an infection! I have no idea what the child's life expectancy is, nor what quality of life she enjoys. Or endures.

Had this birth occurred in any small town in America, and had the hospital undertaken to treat this child, the hospital would have been bankrupted and be out of business. So how much is ONE life worth? Someone has to “do the numbers.” We cannot commit to spend an INFINITE amount on ONE child or person. The so-called PRO Life movement - I say so-called because they are really ANTI choice - has rampaged and now have us in a moral dilemma we cannot easily extricate ourselves from. See our own 2004 Florida Teri Schiavo political exploitation drama. The Bush brothers stooped so low a snake could not have passed under them.

All the Dems plans to make health care universally available in America have no provisions for containing or limiting the fast rising costs. We already spend $2.2T annually on health care with only mediocre results. It will not be long before the US reaches the 20% of GDP on health care. Every fifth dollar for heath care and they tell us to KEEP your nose out of this!

You may say yea or you many say nay, but there will be nothing done in the US until we have CFR for real. Campaign Finance Reform. We slid down this slippery slope egged on by leaders who mislead the voters to think they were getting something for nothing! That someone else was paying the high cost of campaigning. That was one admonition my father often repeated to me, “Never take something for nothing.” It will kill you as it has America.

www.stuff.co.nz
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 1/28/2008 by donwhite]

This isnt really a breaking news story because the article dates back to November. But the topic is worth discussing never the less. The political aspect of a private vs public healthcare system and the practical aspects of the debate are often ignored .

A better question might be this.

What price can you put on a good quality of life ?
I ask this question because here in NZ elderly people who have paid tax dollars there whole lives and require elective surgery get struck on 18 month waiting lists. That is assuming that the person in question isnt taken off a waiting list . The question also wider implications which go beyond the scope of this thread. I have a disabled cousin who is unable to perform basic bodily functions without a assistance.

With a public run health system there is still limits to the amount of money that is spend as already noted waiting lists are a symptom of this as well as staff shortages e.t.c . Longer life spans in the Western World are putting pressure on both private and public health systems .

A person who is facing bankruptcy due to private healthcare costs isnt going to be able to barter goods and services as a way of paying a two million dollar bill.

Well those are my thoughts anyway.

I have 1 million $ coverage so i wont be getting kicked out.

I am quite concerned about this also. I have absolutely no idea what the correct course of action should be. I know that health care is very expensive here in the US, but I am worried about Universal "free" health care that some political candidates want to implement. To be honest I need to study up on these more, because I do not know all the ins and outs.

I will say 1 thing for certain though, I have never, ever heard a good story from one of these countries that provided free health care. Not once. It is all about people waiting months on end to see a doctor, and then waiting months on end to go back for check ups. I would much rather pay my fee every month and see a doctor when I want. I am open to someone convincing me other wise though.

Well there aren't any waiting lists to see doctor if needed I just make an appointment and then go at the set time. Once criticism of public health care I have read is that people aren't able to choose what doctor they go to. This simply isnt true if I wanted I could visit a GP across town but it is more likely that I would go to GP who is nearer to me.

Public Health Care has its shares of flaws if its opponent's have to resort to creating myths or just lying then they are in the wrong on both counts.

I believe the problem lies in insurance. Take away insurance and see if medical cost don't go down. Also it regulations that government puts on drug companies.

In 1970 I was in high school, had a part time job and worked on Dad's ranch. I got sick, went to our family doctor, he checked me out, gave me a shot and a 'scrip for antibiotic pills for a week.

That Doctor office visit, shot and "scrip cost me 7.00 $. Now what has changed? Health insurance, more Doctors being sued by more and more people, Doctor offices needing more people to just work there for the increase paper work and billing.

Now I go in and its 25 $ up front and then another 50 to 100$ that the insurance Co. won't pay.

Take vision insurance, we figured it up, my assistant manager and I. I have the insurance and he doesn't. My last pair a glasses cost me 210 $ now that is with Ins. His cost him about the same, he went to a guy a Wal-mart. I went to a vision clinic that is staffed with Optometrists just like a Wal-mart.

So the insurance is just a scam. I'm going to drop my vision Insurance when enrollment comes around.

The problem is I think our economy is built around these types of things.

Roper

reply to post by xpert11


That is just what I was looking for. If you don't mind, can you share where you live? I have to say though, this is just 1 out of many tales that I have heard. There is no reason that there wouldn't be some discrepancies, but I assume others that I have heard from were not lying.

I live in Christchurch New Zealand. The problems after you have been to a GP if you need medical tests done or elective surgery then you could be put on a waiting list.

Cheers xpert11.

reply to post by sputniksteve

I will say 1 thing for certain though, I have never, ever heard a good story from one of these countries that provided free health care. Not once. It is all about people waiting months on end to see a doctor, and then waiting months on end to go back for check ups. I would much rather pay my fee every month and see a doctor when I want. I am open to someone convincing me other wise though.

I think you hear wrong Mr sputniksteve. Every western democracy BUT the US has pre-paid health care. It is usually administered by a civil service bureaucracy. Xpert11 from NZ reports waits for “elective” surgery. In America there might not be any coverage at all for “elective” surgery. Whether or not you have insurance. I often have to wait 2-3 weeks to make a routine appointment with my dermatologist.

The major problem as I see it is the 7%-10% annual cost increase in our health care. We are fast approaching 20% of GDP for health care. It does not matter how it is paid, the fact remains this cost is nearly double that of any other country. When American companies go abroad to compete for large jobs, we are saddled with nearly twice the cost of France or Italy. The UK and Spain are all much lower than our cost. You might as well say we are at a 5% to 10% disadvantage when bidding against foreign businesses. If it was not for the sale of armaments, we’d be way down in the list of exporters. And that means jobs to us.

No private company nor any combination of private companies can deal with the number of people we are talking about. 300 million. It has to be a single payer, Federal system. We can work constantly to make it as good as we can, but that is what the final outcome will look like. It’s an economic imperative.

Well as the source article notes mothers who had just given birth were offered grocery vouchers to leave the hospital sooner so people just have to bear in mind that a Public Health system isnt all a bed roses.

If one company cant cater for 300 million people then how is the US government which is only one entity spouse to do the same thing ?

Besides surely there is more then one company catering for health care in the US. I cant find any exact figures but NZ government has increased spending on the health system and the return on the investment is the sort of thing we see in the source article.

Here is something that supports Don case.

Countries with more efficient health systems are the ones that spend less on health than would be expected by their GDP figures and yet achieve higher life expectancy than would be predicted by their wealth.

Based on 2005 OECD data, New Zealand, along with Japan, Spain, Italy, Sweden and Australia are in this category.

Source

I certainly wouldn't say that the funding of the NZ health care system ia anything like efficient but I don't think that is the point of the article.

IMO if someone can prove that they have insurance they should be able to opt out of any public health care scheme . However all that overlooks the problem of longer life spans someone in there 80s or 90s is unlikely to be paying tax dollars or working to pay for insurance. That is of course when the person will often require the most health care.

I don't know things are like in the US but because Kiwis aren't good savers a public - private SuperAnnuation has made a come back .

Originally posted by sputniksteve
I know that health care is very expensive here in the US, but I am worried about Universal "free" health care that some political candidates want to implement. To be honest I need to study up on these more, because I do not know all the ins and outs.

You need to get informed. No candidate is advocating "free" health care. They are advocating a system whereby normal people can afford healthcare and the lower income people get some"help". The very, very poor may get if for free but thathey already get emergency services for free and that ends up costing our nation just as much. Why would anyone want to have an unhealthy lower/middle class? What good does that do anyone?

You need to look at Medicare. Every year it goes up on the co-pay, well maybe not every year but still it is not free nor is it without it's bureaucratic problems.

National health care will only make some insurance company rich and will have the US citizen running around in circles.

Roper

posted by xpert11
If one company cant cater for 300 million people then how is the US government which is only one entity spouse to do the same thing ? Besides surely there is more then one company catering for health care in the US. I cant find any exact figures but NZ government has increased spending on the health system and the return on the investment is the sort of thing we see in the source article.

1) The US government already has 1.8 million employees and the Armed Forces have nearly an equal number. There are already offices in almost every town in America with more than 2,500 people. And we have a contract post office in every town down to about 200 people.
2) I estimate there are 3,000 companies selling health insurance in America.
3) The US government spends about 20% of the total health care expenditure in the US.
Medicare, Medicaid, active Federal employees, active and retired Armed Forces and dependents, retired civil service employees, Veterans Administration and the Public Health Service - for Native Americans etc.