A just and holy God

Why would a just and holy God want us to die after only living 70 years and prevent us from having a unified world with one language.

It would seem that allowing humans to live for millenia would allow them to acquire knowledge, wisdom and to evolve beyond our pitiful current existence. It would also seem that a unified language would allow the world to live together in harmony. Is there any mention of war prior to the tower of babel story?

a just and holy god knows what you are to do to ascend.

who are you or any one of us to question why god allows us 70 years.

some live longer, some live less. the whole point of life is for each
and every one of us to learn what we are hewre to leanr and correct.

anything else is a waste of time.

And how do you know that your are right. Your response sounds like the same cut and paste response I've heard all my life, "just shut up and do what you are told". Maybe you should think for yourself!

We never REALLY die, our bodies aren't really us. If we're driving in a car and it breaks down do we break down too?

There's more then one way to communicate with people other then speech, like being nice and friendly with people and observing their reactions.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by Shawn B.]

Oh, or maybe a conundrum that you can't answer:

1)It is not the will of the Father that any should perish

2)Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments

3)Jesus said the second commandment is, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"

4)Jesus said, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

5)Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

6)Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

7)I among others I am sure have asked God that all humans may inherit the kingdom of God

8)If you are a Christian and haven't asked that all humans may go to heaven you are not following God's will

9)Therefore it would seem that all people would inherit the Kingdom of Heaven

after all Jesus said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

Now I ask, "do you love Jesus"?

Yes!

Cain killed Able,
Then before Noah, fallen angels raped normal women,(Or they were willing)
and had giants who were tyrants!
Sound familiar?
(Greek and Roman And Sumerian mythology)

The land grew evil and 'violent', and Men began to cooperate in their evil at Babylon. They became VERY powerful!
God said that if they continued as One, that Nothing would be impossible to them!

So, God unleashed the Great Flood.
A rainbow was his sign to Noah that he would not flood his creation totally again.
However, after man is One again, during the reign of the antichrist, God will bring down fire and brimstone as one phase of many judgements.

reply to post by Clearskies


But is there a mention of nation warring against nation?

reply to post by arius


It really isn't a conundrum at all. Your question was first proposed by greek philosophers thousands of years ago and, after some thought, an answer was given and it's been "case closed." Its called the rationalization of transcendent actions question. The most popular form of the question is the "why does God allow evil?" question, which was also figured out quite a while ago too. But yet people keep asking it thinking its unique...

While entire tomes and dissertations have been written in answer to such questions, very simply put: the actions of a transcendent being are by logical extension actions which are executed on a plane of existence that is far beyond the human mind. It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend even the most basic qualities of those characteristics which we ascribe to divine beings: eternity, immortality, omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence, etc. How much more difficult is it to understand the actions of a being who holds such characteristics? There may very well be a perfectly logical and rational reason behind why we only live for 70 years that is consistent with the actions of the Deity in question, but we are bounded by our rationality in our ability to understand it.

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by arius

 

It really isn't a conundrum at all. Your question was first proposed by greek philosophers thousands of years ago and, after some thought, an answer was given and it's been "case closed." Its called the rationalization of transcendent actions question. The most popular form of the question is the "why does God allow evil?" question, which was also figured out quite a while ago too. But yet people keep asking it thinking its unique...

While entire tomes and dissertations have been written in answer to such questions, very simply put: the actions of a transcendent being are by logical extension actions which are executed on a plane of existence that is far beyond the human mind. It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend even the most basic qualities of those characteristics which we ascribe to divine beings: eternity, immortality, omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence, etc. How much more difficult is it to understand the actions of a being who holds such characteristics? There may very well be a perfectly logical and rational reason behind why we only live for 70 years that is consistent with the actions of the Deity in question, but we are bounded by our rationality in our ability to understand it.

So the "answer" is "We don't know! Accept it!"

That's some answer.

I've gotta say I agree with the OP. Christians call their god ever-loving and merciful, but quite frankly the only other deity I can think of that causes so much destruction in their mythology(no offense meant by that term, I'm just using that as an umbrella term) as Yahweh does is Loki(who ends up semi-inadvertently bringing about Ragnarök).

It's my opinion that if the supreme deity IS the Abrahamic God, then he will surely give non-believers a second chance, as we are all his children; and that many of the fire-and-brimstone stuff about non-believers going to hell is the perversion of God's will.

Actually the "answer" is "we know exactly why, and anyone who cares to actually investigate the matter rather than try to fit everything into their preconceived religion bashing ideology could figure it out."

These are the absolutely classical religion bashing arguments which are almost always logical fallacies. Any reasonable student of religion knows that the substance of a religion cannot be judged by its followers, since people do not always follow a religion or choose a religious label to accomplish other means. Of course the comical reality is that if you actually did judge the followers of religion, you would find the vast majority of them to be good people and servants of their God. But that doesn't help people bash religion, so its just better to find the hypocrites and bash them.

Since we're talking about God, I'll give you a Christian answer. Death of humans coincided with the first sin. Not that they immediately died but that the flesh now became mortal. The tree of life was immediately off limits to us but it was a blessing in disguise. Now that sin had entered the world, God knew what it would do. Do we really want people like Adolph Hitler living forever? No. We also know that the lifespans of humans decreased as the effects of sin increased. This was also a blessing. Frankly, I'm glad we don't live for 1,000 years.

Only upon death can we be perfect again and reunited with God. We cannot be perfect in these sinful bodies or be reunited with God. No one wants to endure 1,000 years of pain, disease, suffering, violence, injustice, etc. We're only here for a little while. To learn, love, and be tested. After that, we shed this "mortal coil" and are free of sin and its effects. I'll take 70 years of life over 1,000 year or eternity any day of the week.

Originally posted by arius
Oh, or maybe a conundrum that you can't answer:

1)It is not the will of the Father that any should perish

Reference to the spirit, not the flesh.

7)I among others I am sure have asked God that all humans may inherit the kingdom of God

ALL flesh shall see the SALVATION of God- Luke 3:6

[edit on 18-1-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by AshleyD


Very nicely put, Ashley! As the Psalmist, David phrased it:

"LORD, make me to know my end
And what is the extent of my days;
Let me know how transient I am.
5"Behold, You have made my days as handbreadths,
And my lifetime as nothing in Your sight;
Surely every man at his best is a mere breath. Selah.
6"Surely every man walks about as a phantom;
Surely they make an uproar for nothing;
He amasses riches and does not know who will gather them.
7"And now, Lord, for what do I wait?
My hope is in You.

Psalm 39:4-7


We are only in this world for a very short time and will only know true peace and joy when we stand at the last before the throne of our King and hear the words, " Well done thou good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your rest."

God would have us leave. ITs are sins that demand ours deaths. But those that are saved will not die. They may sleep for some time but end the end all souls will go to judgement day and your sins will shown to you and then death or life after will come. Its your choice, if you have a pure heart and a relationship with God. Faith and works is the key. Jesus in your heart will lead you to the door.

Originally posted by slymattb
Its your choice, if you have a pure heart and a relationship with God. Faith and works is the key. Jesus in your heart will lead you to the door.

Thank you, slymattb; sometimes in the course of the daily grind it's easy to forget that good works only come through faith and that faith apart from works is not enough; James 2:18-26.

Blessings,

LS

Originally posted by arius
Why would a just and holy God want us to die after only living 70 years and prevent us from having a unified world with one language.

That's why we get as many lifetimes as we need and/or want. TIME & SPACE are actually just how GOD's unlimited mercy and patience manifests in materiality!

It would seem that allowing humans to live for millenia would allow them to acquire knowledge, wisdom and to evolve beyond our pitiful current existence. It would also seem that a unified language would allow the world to live together in harmony.

Yes...for most everything all we need is ONE. After all there is but one race on this planet: the human race!

Is there any mention of war prior to the tower of babel story?

Not in the bible...but that was in ancient Sumer...and I do know there was no such word as religion in that society. No word has ever been found in cuneiform that means 'religion.'

AND SO...without religion, IMO, there would have been no wars. Just an opinion, however.

♥

Originally posted by arius
reply to post by Clearskies

 

But is there a mention of nation warring against nation?

Nation is a concept from French Revolution 1789.

Originally posted by Vojvoda
Nation is a concept from French Revolution 1789.

From freedictionary.com:

Nation:
1.
a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country.
b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out.
2. The government of a sovereign state.
3. A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality: "Historically the Ukrainians are an ancient nation which has persisted and survived through terrible calamity" Robert Conquest.
4.
a. A federation or tribe, especially one composed of Native Americans.
b. The territory occupied by such a federation or tribe.

The concept of 'nation' is far older than the 17th century!

reply to post by arius


Because an increase in knowledge does not coorespond with an increase in wisdom. Humans will use their power, gained by scientific advancement, for evel.
I do not know about war, before the flood, but it did not take long, afterwards, for war to start.
"Cush was the father of Nimrod, who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth."

It would seem that allowing humans to live for millenia would allow them to acquire knowledge, wisdom and to evolve beyond our pitiful current existence. It would also seem that a unified language would allow the world to live together in harmony.

Yes...for most everything all we need is ONE. After all there is but one race on this planet: the human race!

If we're saved we get a life time. when your saved life does'nt end. it never stops. So stick to GOd and Christ and get baptised be born again. and you wont ever have a life that ends.