Can we use Hydroxy fuel for diesel powered boats?

First off there are several threads regarding converting you car (gas) to run on Hydroxy fuel and a couple regarding submarines but nothing regarding diesel powered boats (surface). What is the feasibility of running a boat powered by 2 MTU Type 16 396TB94 rated at 3366 hp diesels on hydroxy fuel.

We have all heard about global warming / cooling and that we should be more green in our thinking. I feel that this should also carry on over to boats as well. With thousands of diesel powered boats burning tons of fuel a day, why not use a renewable resourse and get off the oil as much as possible.

I know that ATS has many people in the know regarding alternate fuels so lets discuss, can we do it for diesels?

[edit on 1/14/2008 by pstrron]

I would think there would be a severe pre-ignition problem in a diesel engine.

Hydroxy as in HYDROXY CUT diet Pills????

(now I am super GLAD I never gave 'em a try if they make a vehicle fuel from it)

[edit on 13-1-2008 by theRiverGoddess]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess

Hydroxy as in HYDROXY CUT diet Pills????

Hydroxy refers to hydrogen oxygen as a fuel derived from H2O.

Do you mean water-powered boats?

If so, then yes that is possible.

reply to post by TheoOne


Water powered in the sense that water is split through electrolysis into hydrogen and oxygen. What I would like to know is how feasible is it with a diesel. Gasoline powered vehicles have the advantage of ignition via a spark. The diesel being a compression engine reaches high enough temperatures during the compression stroke to ignite the hydroxy mixture prior to full compression.

My understanding is that a diesel can be run on a hydroxy mixture but not 100% because of compression. Is there a way around this? I am sure there is but just unknown to me. Frankly, consuming 137 gal an hour is a little costly though it beats the dog out of 10 - 20 mt a day. If the consumption could be dropped to 78 gph or less would be great. In fact if the only diesel used could be to prevent autoignition and lubrication that would make for a very green vessel.


[edit on 1/14/2008 by pstrron]

the diesel engine is designed for the diesel fuel and i think using 100%Hydroxy as fuel would present ignition and heat problems the same if you used gasoline in your diesel engine. What i can imagine you could do though is a mixture of both.

You can connect your hydroxy generator to the air intake just to "lace" or introduce only a small amount of hydroxy to the fuel-air mixture, thereby making the mixture a little bit more explosive.

with the correct amount you can have more torque and can use less fuel in the process.

i have been designing this for my diesel car but i was set-backed by the problem of hydroxy metering. you have to meter your hydroxy production and introduction to the fuel-air mixture proportional to the demand of the engine. i was not prepared for experimentation with my car as my engine could explode if i messed up my proportions.

introducing too much hydroxy would make your engine very hot or worse explode!

this idea is perfect for diesel generators though where rpm is constant.

good luck!

A diesel engine cannot run on Hydrogen, the ignition cycle will not promote efective combustion with hydrogen as fuel. It would be much easier to burn gaseous H2 in a turbine, or the next best case in a conventional fuel injected 4 cycle engine with some minor modifications to the fuel injection map.
I dont think the H2 combustion cycle will provide enough heat to to over come the compression.I dont think it would do anything, it will never light. A diesel works because the very compression ratio of the engine heats the fuel mixture to the point where ignition can occur. As a liquid at room temp, diesel fuel does not burn. It has to be vaporized, then heated to a fairly high temp before it will combust. The very high compresion ratios are what provide the heat. I dont believe that the combustability of H2 changes that much with pressure or temp( pressure and temp are directly proportional), as it is combustable at room temp and atmoshperic pressure, as diesel fuel is not.
In a boat you wuld be better off using a fuel cell to chemicaly combine H2 + O2 to get H20 and some heat as a by product, and then drive a generator to provide electricity for propulsion.The electricity could then be used to electrolyze water into H2, and O2.
The newest generation of swedish submarine use such an arangment. They evidently have found a way to get around fouling the system with waste salts, derived from electrolyzing seawater.

A reciprocation piston engine is so not the way to do it, if your are going to use a piston engine you are better of using a hydro carbon of some sort. There just isnt enough energy available in the (2*H2+O2= 2*H20) reaction to drive the pistions and overcome all off the frictional lossed in the piston engine design.
There are two ways to go about diving a boat using hydrogen as a fuel.
One way is a totally fuel cell based system, where O2 is chemically reacted with H2 to get water vapour, heat, and a flow of electrons as a by product. You use the electricity to break more water into H2 andO2, and repeat the cycle, with some of the energy going into propulsion.
If you can generate an excess of H2 then it can be stored in a metal hydride, that will give up its gaseous H2 with the application of a little current.
The other way is to again use a fuel cell, to break water into H2 an O2, the H2 is copmressed or stored as metal hydride. Then it is burned in a turbine, that in turn drives a generator that drives an electric motor.
If you get really tricky you use a vainless Tesla turbine.

reply to post by punkinworks

a vainless Tesla turbine

I am very familiar with the standard turbine engine (axial / centrifugal flow) but have never heard of a vainless Tesla turbine. Could you enlighten me regarding this type of turbine.

en.wikipedia.org...

Very exciting stuff

reply to post by pstrron


Perhaps possible, but I doubt it is practical.

I drive a truck for a libing, so this is one subject I am familiar with to a large extent. The diesel engine has the advantages it has (long running times, reliability, high torgue) due to the simple fact that diesel fuel is a very sow-burning mixture. Instead of using a spark to ignite a highly-explosive mixture such as gasoline, the pressure from compression alone serves to ignite the fuel.

Pumping even a small amount of gasoline into a diesel engine will cause an explosion that will destroy the engine. It is simply not made for that hig of an explosion. So to try and introduce hydroxide into it would make for an even worse situation.

My feelings on alternate fuels for diesels is that here is an area where organic fuel is very acceptable. Unlike the traditional gasoline engine, which has trouble burning the alcohol in 'gasohol' (now renamed as 'ethanol') efficiently, diesels were originally designed to run on peanut oil. Willie Nelson now has a bio-diesel refinery and operates a truck stop at Carl's Corners TX where he pushes the benefits of his 'Bio-Willie' fuel. Other truck stops across the nation are offering the fuel mixture, with Love's Truck Stops apparently leading the way. Drivers are reporting better fuel efficiency and increased power from the mixture compared to pure diesel.

The drawbacks? The fuel systems tend to collect impurities over time, and bio-diesel has a detergent property to it; it tends to break all that sediment loose. That in turn tends to clog the fuel system for a few thousand miles of operation after starting on bio-diesel. As far as I know, this is the only problem. No problems with engine longevity have been reported. So I think this may well be the best concept overall for diesels.

As for hydroxide, doesn't it take as much energy to split the water molecule as is produced when it re-combines? I hadn't heard much about a new method of electrolysis; did I miss something?

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck



the redneck missed the topic of the thread.
I filled my tdi with petrol(gasoline) by mistake and it didn't explode - syphoned the lines, primed the filter with deisel and quite a few car betteries worth later she started up again with a puff of smoke.
Apparently diesel engines are compatable with this "pretty easy to build yourself" technology. see: waterpoweredcar.com...
and here's the diy design: smacksboosters.110mb.com...
good luck sailors!
Danny

You can

run upto 80% hydroxy and 20% diesel
Read the hydroxy course
www.panaceauniversity.org...