Going to Hell

reply to post by saint4God


Saint,

You may not know this, but the idea of "hell" has been around longer than the bible has. As a matter of fact, Hell is never mentioned in the bible, and the word actually has it's origins on Norse Mythology. So there is certainly a point in discussing it past the biblical interpretation. As a matter of fact, if you want to be strict about the meaning, we can exclude the biblical interpretations since it isn't technically hell.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Saint,

You may not know this, but the idea of "hell" has been around longer than the bible has. As a matter of fact, Hell is never mentioned in the bible,

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Matthew 23:15
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Luke 12:5
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Luke 16:23
In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

This is where the idea of hell comes from. There are many many more Biblical references that express the idea without saying the word hell as well.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
and the word actually has it's origins on Norse Mythology. So there is certainly a point in discussing it past the biblical interpretation. As a matter of fact, if you want to be strict about the meaning, we can exclude the biblical interpretations since it isn't technically hell.

Entymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old English helan to conceal, Old High German helan, Latin celare, Greek kalyptein
www.m-w.com...

Dictionary says Greek word originally, not norse. New Testament was written in Greek. So if the idea comes from the Bible and the word itself comes from the language the New Testament was written in, there seems to be good comparative between the two.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Correct, The bible never uses the word HELL, this was switched by the Catholics from Shoel to Hell. Its no surprise to find out the source for the concept of hell came from mythology because all of the changes to the bible and general doctrine beliefs have been altered by the Catholic Church. Christmas was another one that came from a source outside of original biblical concepts;

en.wikipedia.org...[/url]

reply to post by saint4God


Not to get into a religious debate. This is actually what I was trying to avoid. But...

www.helltruth.com...
Hell in the Bible

The word “hell” is used 54 times in the Bible. It is translated from several different words with various meanings, as indicated below:

In the Old Testament:

* 31 times from the Hebrew “Sheol,” which means
“the grave”

In the New Testament:

* 10 times from the Greek “Hades,” which means
“the grave”
* 12 times from the Greek “Gehenna,” which means
“a place of burning”
* 1 time from the Greek “Tartarus,” which means
“a place of darkness”

I'll give you that it may have originally been a Greek word. I was referring to Hel, Odin's daughter and ruler of the underworld. but in any case, Hell was only translated and inserted into the bible long after the concept of Hel and the underworld was around.

Let's clear some apparent confusion.

Is the original poster talking about the Norse "Hel"?

In ancient Norse mythology Hel is the ill-favoured goddess of the underworld. Only those who fall in battle can enter Valhalla; the rest go down to Hel in the underworld, not all, however, to the place of punishment of criminals.

Is Fallen One talking about an ill-favoured goddess? Is Fallen One talking about a place without punishment of criminals? Let us examine the following text:

Originally posted by Fallen One
I want to know if people have been to Heaven or Hell.

Hel in this context seems to be used as a place, not a goddess. Notice opposition mentioned as Heaven.

Originally posted by Fallen One
she said i spoke in growls in my sleep which sacred her and one time i woke up with my hair with smoke rising from my skin

Smoke come from ... ? Does Hel or Hell have fire? The Norse goddess or Hell in the Bible?

Originally posted by Fallen One
its funny that you mention having to be a demon thing because

Are there demons in the Christian Hell? Are there demons in the Norse goddess?

Originally posted by Fallen One
i think that if you ar etortured its more psychological in natural then physical because honestly i can think of far worse torture then being burnt

but i do belive in evil and good creatures are demons evil no just misunderstood just as i believe not all angels are good

i agree i think there are good demon as well as bad angels. i think that there are Fallen ones that have regret for rebelling and wish to get back to God so they try to do good instead of evil. And opposite for angels.

We can go on, but is there really any point? Between the dictionary, the Bible and the original poster, I'm hoping we all can get on the same page instead of discussing the meaning of "the".

[edit on 11-1-2008 by saint4God]

Saint,

There was no distinction or forced direction of this conversation into the Christian Hell until you brought it up. We were having a great conversation about different interpretations of hell, everyones individual hell, dreams and feelings. Then, as usual, it turns into Christian Hell or none at all.

Lets get back to the conversation with everyone's different interpretation of the afterlife and whether Fallen has visited any of them. Because we all know that if it isn't Christian it doesn't exist right? Right, well let's get going then.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Saint,

There was no distinction or forced direction of this conversation into the Christian Hell until you brought it up. We were having a great conversation about different interpretations of hell, everyones individual hell, dreams and feelings. Then, as usual, it turns into Christian Hell or none at all.

You're blaming me for the deviation of topic between hell and a norse goddess? I provided documented information about the subject matter of the topic.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Lets get back to the conversation with everyone's different interpretation of the afterlife and whether Fallen has visited any of them. Because we all know that if it isn't Christian it doesn't exist right? Right, well let's get going then.

I'll use testimony as well then. Although I have not been to hell, I have spoken to one from there and had a friend who witnessed communings with the same. If this is of no help, I apologize for the "interruption" and agree with Rasobasi that the thread has -somehow- gotten off topic because of some Norse mythological interjection.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by saint4God]

(Norse mythology was only brought up after this comment to show that there are other concepts of hell and the afterlife outside of the bible)

Originally posted by saint4God
If you reject the idea of God as presented Biblically, then the idea of Hell would be equally rejected and discussion useless (since it too is defined Biblically).

Now that that is finished......

I'd imagine hell to be hell for some, but heaven for others. I deny the idea that we're separated after we die. If anything, all spirits are joined into infinity and infinite unity with a single universal oneness that encompasses all that there is. Trees, stones, birds, pygmy marmots and humans all exist in this unity. If this unity is displeasing to one, it may be hell.

I for one dream of this unity on occasion myself, but I can't say it's real since I may have developed the idea after hearing it somewhere else and applied my own understanding of it based on my ideas and preexisting sensory notions.

If there was a hell I would think it should require conciousness in order to be effective, lets agree on that. If all that would be required is to be aware of it then thats what hell would be.

To clear up confusion i was talking about any version of heaven or hell. I have no real religion to think of just an amalgamation of different beliefs and ideas from many diverse cultures and religous structures. I dont belive
in a tradtional hell or heaven per se, but i do think that our souls do go someplace.

and as for the smoke i dont think it was from hell. when i awoke my skin was hot to the touch, but it wasnt hot in hell i think that if anything it was from whatever energy took me to where i went.

i know there are a lot of skeptics out there or a lot of religious people who think im steeped in darkness already because of my name and avatar, but i assure you im not any more than anyone else. This is really happening to me and i just wanted answers.

And as for the religious debate thats ok too its a little helpful getting to see everyone different views.