SWAT officers invade home, take 11 year old at gunpoint.

People now days are such freakin busy bodies and can't wait to make a 911 call if they see something in there reclusive expert opinion needs authoritative attention. When we did not have 911 I wonder how many kids bashed there skulls and momma looked at it, rubbed the owie and with a kiss said, there, there, now your fine, run along dear. I know I bashed my head all the time as a kid from falling off my bike, ash boxes, fences, ledges, garage roofs and everything else I climbed up on.

The population is being conditioned into a catatonic state to report thy neighbor for every little thing. The NWO just loves squealers and loves to confront the citizen with terrorist tactics to justify more funding for cops and social services etc, etc.

Like that soda pop commercial on tv says, WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Okay. If I am reiterating someone else's post, I apologize beforehand.

Now on to my two cents' worth.

I have been a paramedic/firefighter for nigh on 16 years now. I have had incidents where a child has been injured and 911 was called. We respond and arrive on the scene. Once we get there if the parents or legal guardians don't want us to treat or transport, then we have them sign a document stating that they were advised of the need for medical treatment and evaluation by a physician. Now are there instances where I would contact the local law enforcement? Yes. If I suspected abuse or that by delaying treatment that it would cause further harm to the patient. The article states that it was an accidental fall. Okay, so no abuse. It does not say how badly the child was injured. If it were I in that situation I probably would have had the parents sign the informed refusal and gone about my day after documenting the heck out of the call.

Now during my 16 years in Emergency Services I have worked as the Fire Chief/Chief of EMS. If ANY of my paramedics or firefighters had gone that far without a good reason they would be out of a job and their patch would be on my wall. By having the SWAT team bust into the home like they did causes further harm to not only the child, but also the family members. Not all trauma is physical.

I think this family has a good lawsuit.

if you're not a paramedic, cop, social services, involved in magistrate courts, or anyone else that was involved in this case, then you probably don't really know what you're talking about. this is not an attack to anyone, but i used to have the same opinions too, until i became a cop. i'm gonna have to say that the kid is fortunate.

Assuming this is a factual case and actually took place...Regarding the posts crying "police state" and such, the swat was simply doing what they were told to do they had no say in the reason behind the issue. I believe the issue lies in the paramedic who, in my opinion, probably has some kind of quota and that is why they were so insistant that they should b taken to the hospital...This all stems from child abuse cases which is why social workers and such have so much power when it comes to childrens future...My hopes are that the hospital gets the crap sued out them and that paramedic loses thier job...

I guess that I should reply in my own thread.

I think the truth lies somewhere between the story I mentioned in my OP and the local papers version on the previous page.

The way people spin things these days, who can even be sure of what happened here.

Did the guy refuse treatment for his son due to religious beliefs or the ol' "father knows best" mentality? Was it because it was to expensive? Social services offered to foot the bill, or is that what they just told the press afterwords.

The version in my original post points a mighty harsh finger at LEO, Social Services, and the local magistrate, leaving the latter posted version seeming like a whitewash or backpeddling and retelling of events. Or are we just seeing it from another view?

It seems like this story is going to be nothing but fingerpointing back and forth until it ends up in a court and goes nowhere.

I would really love to see a copy of the warrant that LEO had.

Originally posted by zerotime
Hundreds of thousands of children die every year from head wounds. Just because we were ignorant in the past doesn't mean we have to keep being stupid.

If you haven’t already had a child with traumatic brain injury (TBI) in your classes, chances are you will before you end your teaching career. Approximately 1 million children and adolescents receive a head injury each year. Of these injuries, 16,000 - 20,000 will be serious enough to cause lasting effects, and one in 500 will be severe enough to cause hospitalization.

www.lapublishing.com...

Every year hundreds of thousands of American children die from head wounds that they have received in car accidents and falls, or from gun shots or being shaken, struck or thrown. No fewer than 1,000,000 are head-injured each year. Traumatic Brain Injury is called The Silent Epidemic because so many cases go undetected

www.authorsden.com...

Very confusing quotes you listed here. Hundreds of thousands DIE of head injuries in one quote and 500 need hospitalisaion out of a million in the other quote. Well that's quite a range. I see you picked the second one to support. Now if some kid gets a bullet through the head I'm all for taking them to ER - streuth again!!

[edit on 9-1-2008 by RogerT]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

In this case the child really did need a CT scan.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

He did not NEED a CT scan. A CT scan is an option in a country with the most expensive and arguably one of the least effective medical establishments in the world. It is a very expensive option, which would probably have cost the family their home and their lifestyle. This kid did not need some high tech observation at the cost of his family.

If the US had a free medical health system, like all civilised countries offer their populations, then perhaps a CT scan would have been the best way to go.

Personally, I would do all I can to keep my kids away from the leading cause of death in America today, which is of course the medical industry, not head bumps.

This is yet another example of how the brave defenders of allopathy have probably wrecked yet another family's well being.

[/rant]

reply to post by Paloma


Thanks so much for this level headed and very authoritative post. And thank you also for sharing your home birthing/schooling experience. This kind of information, which is widely understood and diseminated outside the US, needs more voice in America where the medics have the tightest grip.

Star for you

Originally posted by Paloma
So if you do not vaccinate, are nursing a toddler, have a family bed, or choose to have a homebirth or unassisted birth in some states, any of that can absolutely be used as fodder against in a family in a call to CPS. And all of these practices are logical, non harmful, and demonstrated to be safe and beneficial parenting practices, although outside of our norm.

OMG, if I lived in the US CPS would be knocking on the door daily if that is the case. Thank god I don't live there then

Sleeping with your kids!
Breastfeeding at 2 years!
Homebirthing!
Not injecting cocktails of toxic chemicals and deadly diseases!

Sounds like an excellent recipe for healthy child rearing to me.

You missed one: when they fall over and bump their head, kiss it better, ask them to recite their 6 times table or favorite rap song and let them get back to playing

Let me see if I understand this...
By law I AM allowed to let my wife starve to death.
By law, I AM allowed to force family and friends not to give my wife water...
By law, I am NOT allowed to choose medical services for my own child.

Oh, it's all making sense now. NOT

Since when, did believing in the Constitution make one a danger? Oh, I remember. that started with Janet Reno.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


(This reply might be a little late, but I'm just coming back to read through the thread now.)

I was knocked out in my early teens. Punched in the side of the head, and toppled like a dead tree in a forest landing head first on the concrete. I still have a knot on my head to this day. I was in severe shock and vomiting when I finally came around. I lost all concept of time and couldn't remember my own name for about 12 hours. I was taken to the hospital by ambulance. When they found out that my parents had no medical insurance, I was sent home with pain killers and told not to get out of bed for a week. An obviously severe concussion, no CT scan.

Furthermore, in this particular case, the boy was immediately released once he finally did make it to the hospital, without the CT scan.

Rereading my quote that you referred to, it did sound a bit harsh, so I think I should explain it a tad better. I am not saying that the father should just let his kid suffer and die so the rest can live comfortably. All I am saying is that it is the parents right to sort of determine the odds. If it's a real long shot that the kid actually had a concussion, then I don't see the need to send him to the hospital. If, on the other hand, he had been injured as severly as I once was, then yes, he should have been taken to the hospital regardless of cost.

But even with all of that, what can really be done for a concussion anyway? Like I said, I just had to lay still in bed for a week. What else can you really do? I really didn't need thousands of dollars in medical bills for the old, "take two aspirin and call me in the morning" routine.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


What you are talking about is Anarchy, not the Constitution. But I am noot trying to be judgemental her either.

It would be great if the "Magistrates" re-election was challenged. It would be great the state attorney general or some legal authority challenged the magistrates competency. It would be great if the family sued for damages.

Originally posted by jackinthebox

Rereading my quote that you referred to, it did sound a bit harsh, so I think I should explain it a tad better. I am not saying that the father should just let his kid suffer and die so the rest can live comfortably. All I am saying is that it is the parents right to sort of determine the odds. If it's a real long shot that the kid actually had a concussion, then I don't see the need to send him to the hospital. If, on the other hand, he had been injured as severly as I once was, then yes, he should have been taken to the hospital regardless of cost.

My point was that he did not know if the child was seriously injured or not.

I believe we should let the crime happen before the punishment. We are a country of FREE people. If the child succumbed because of the injury then we should have the police intervene. His child his choice.

But even with all of that, what can really be done for a concussion anyway? Like I said, I just had to lay still in bed for a week. What else can you really do? I really didn't need thousands of dollars in medical bills for the old, "take two aspirin and call me in the morning" routine.

Yes something can be done. If the brain starts swelling it has nowhere to go. None. It swells it starts dieing. Steps can be taken from just cold packs, then drugs, and finally surgery.


Edit to trim quote.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by LoneGunMan]

IMO, this is a clear case of a megalomaniacal establishment throwing a temper tantrum because their end all be all authority was challenged. I read a quote where the father said that everyone involved would be named in a suit. I’ll be praying for that wonderful, nonconformist, home schooling, Christian family. May they raise many more children.

It seems to me that there were faults on both sides. As far as I could tell the father had no proof of medical training nor informed the EMT's of any medical training when refusing further treatment.

It also appears that the father was very confrontational with the medics, sheriff, and CPS and also ignored a court order.

Due to homeschooling (nothing wrong with it but there is no outside supervision or non-family members) I think that the medics and CPS were more worried about possible child abuse than the actual "accident". I really dont think they were looking to trounce on a poor "constituionalist's" rights for some powertripping before the weekend.