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...so watch your comments as they may be used against you, such as displaying denial, lack of logic, or bringing up irrelevant points.
Originally posted by Heronumber0
The struggle comes from tracing back our human lineage back to its logical origin - a pair of humans.
Originally posted by Heronumber0
Also it comes from tracing back language to its common origins - a single proto-language.
Originally posted by Heronumber0
There is also a struggle in the explanation of how the brain seems to have a level of consciousness higher than a supercomputer.
till very gradually it formed a cloudy pillar extending from his shoulder to his feet and close to his body. Then he shifted himself a little sideways, the cloudy figure standing still, but appearing joined to him by a cloudy band at the height at which it had first begun to form.
Originally posted by stumason
But that isn't a logical conclusion. You seem to be under the impression new species just "appear". The change is gradual. You don't just have monkey's one day then all of a sudden a monkey gives birth to a human. So attempting to trace back to a pair of humans would lead you no where, as this is not what happened.
Language, again, would have been a gradual process. Many animals today have a variety of sounds and calls that mean things. As time goes on and the animals abilities increase, they would naturally increase these sounds and calls to encomapss other meanings.
It's not as if Og and Ug woke up one day and suddenly turned to each other and went "fancy a pint?". That sentence, the grammar and the meanings would have evolved from simple animal calls to more complex sounds bundled together until it became a language.
The brain is more analogous to a quantum computer, rather than the current configuration of computer cores, be they "super" or not.
The human mind can think up abstract thoughts, plan for different outcomes and imagine possibilities beyond what the current input is telling it. A computer can only go on what it has been told can happen.
Originally posted by Heronumber0
Don't think so stu. The Eve Theory suggests that mitochondrial DNA evolution points to a small number of progenitors of the human species. This then led to the genetic homologies that we all carry which is an evidence of matrilineal descent. This is a genuine hypothesis/theory. Eve Theory
Again, I don't necessarily believe in the imposition of a language on humaity but it makes sense to have language appear with consciousness. However, there must have been an original language with its lexemes and grammatical constructions that gave rise to variants. Proto language
The brain is more analogous to a quantum computer, rather than the current configuration of computer cores, be they "super" or not.
The human mind can think up abstract thoughts, plan for different outcomes and imagine possibilities beyond what the current input is telling it. A computer can only go on what it has been told can happen.
None other than Penrose assume that computers/supercomputers/megacomputers will NEVER be able to show algorithms that will copy human emotions etc...
Penrose
Originally posted by stumason
Way to go on completely misunderstanding something there!
That does not in any way prove we are descended from some Adam and Eve pairing. Obviously, humans as we see them today had an original parent, but the mutations happened over generations. A monkey did not just give birth to a human. The population that eventually led to the rise of our species had been evolving for eons. That isn't to say the population of said animals was small.
Each genetic mutation, that conferred an advantage, would have survived within the population and been spread. As time passed, additional mutations, that conferred advantages, would also have been added and kept in the population. So over time, you have a gradually evolving population. A small population actually speeds up genetic mutation, and thus, evolution. So it stands to reason.
It is actually summised that the Human species came out of a small enclave of early humans that had a distinct advantage, thus spreading out.
It could also be the case that the early population of humans was almost wiped out by some sort of disaster or disease. This would also account for the mitochondrial DNA study done.
If I was to take a baby human and deprive them of linguistic input for the first 25 years of their life, they would have no concept of language. That isn't proof of lack of consciousness, mind you.
However, one could still communicate at a basic level initially with the person and, if you so wished, develop and entirely new language out of the interactions between you.
Language isn't proof of consciousness and lack of language doesn't mean your a mindless animal. Gorilla's and Chimpanzees can be taught sign language and communicated with at a fairly advanced level.
You do know what a quantum computer is, don't you? I already said standard 1=1, 0=0 computers won't be able to do what a human mind does, so your proving my point.
A Quantum computer is entirely different, so who cares what Penrose say's. That link you provided was written in 1989. He hasn't a clue back then of what is being thought of now.
Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Another one of those christian fundis
If you believe that the bible is gods word then explain to me how the south american sloth and koala bears got on the ark?
If you cant then you can talk all about how evolution is wrong but im not going to believe a word your saying
Originally posted by Thousand
Not only do I fail to see what this has to do at all with Darwinian evolution, but your tone and admission of your future plans leaves me both surprised and a little disgusted.
Originally posted by ben91069
I see what you were trying to say but it does not prove a thing other than the guy was probably fraudulent in certain occasions. Science stands on its own, and whether this guy believes in one thing and flip-flops in other matters does not make the evidence of science stand down.
Now, I wish it were so because good evidence is all most atheists ask for, but clearly faith needs a bit more than a contradiction of beliefs in one man to justify turning the tides.
Originally posted by Heronumber0
The OP was not quite clear Elhardt. Are you saying that Wallace believed in other life-forms apart from humans or believed that humans had a soul? I think that these thoughts could be interpreted as mutually exclusive from Natural Selection/Evolution.
Originally posted by Heronumber0
But that isn't a logical conclusion (responding to Heronumber0). You seem to be under the impression new species just "appear". The change is gradual. You don't just have monkey's one day then all of a sudden a monkey gives birth to a human. So attempting to trace back to a pair of humans would lead you no where, as this is not what happened.
Language, again, would have been a gradual process.
Originally posted by Legalizer
This form a charlatanism was all the rage in this time period. Look it up, its called spiritism.