Teachers giving disinfo

reply to post by birchtree


i have seen "The Castle Doctrine" the verson of that law in CO < where i am > is the "Make My Day Law".
i would kill anyone of they broke into my house with a knife or anything, if someone did break in with a knife and i shoot him down in my house, i could say he was yelling and was trying to stab me with the knife and wanted me dead, for some "unknown" reason i did not "hear" him say.

reply to post by Toy_soldier


no she isn't, not to my knowledge.
what if someone punched me, i was holding a gun and shot him, not meaning to shoot him, is that justified? < only wondering >

reply to post by pc is here


the only reason i dont like her, is she give propaganda ALOT in just about ALL of what she has said is nether true, or is backed by facts.
well, when i move to co. springs i can try to make them like Freedom Of Speech, i enforce it alot .

reply to post by Essan


i never follow what someone else tells me to do.
yeah true, if a kid is looking to steal some candy i might not have im not gonna be like "OMFGZ YOU GONA KIL Me!1one1!!" im just gonna pick him up and put him out side.

reply to post by Legalizer


< op? >
i know students are meant to learn < something? > in school, but when the teachers only give disinfo do you want someone that wants to learn true things to go to that school, or go to a school the teachers have never given disinfo.
the teacher is FUGLY as hell ._.
i have tried homeschooling but after one day of not getting online to do the work i had like....38478293749283 things to do.
well right now its the best way to teach teachers how ignorant teachers are, then teach them that 9-11 was an inside job < i have been trying for....3 years now X.x >
tried to get a girlfriend, didnt work out X_x

reply to post by DaleGribble


not really trying to make her look like a jackass, just wanna show her that she is wrong when she says things like "there is no freedom of speech", and when she says "Fluoride is good for you, there is no way Mercury is in shots" and such things.

reply to post by seanking177


You are correct. Students do not shed their rights at the schoolhouse door.

I am familiar with the case you mentioned.

However, freedom of speech is relative. There are several instances in which free speech can be limited, for whatever reason.

I am simply pointing out that students in public schools have limits on their speech. Same as prisoners in jail, same as posters on ATS.

My apologies, please. I failed to realize that you are correct in your assumption that you know everything about everything. My law degree and Bar Roll Number can not possibly allow me to match wits with you regarding freedom of speech.

Go ahead and go off to school and spout whatever speech you personally feel like. According to you, they can't hurt you, so go all out!

I'll quote from the same case that you did:
"S]tudents or teachers do not shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate. . . . [A student] may express his [or her] opinions, even on controversial subjects, if he [or she] does so without materially and substantially interfering with the requirements of others. . . . But conduct by . . . [a] student in class or out of it, which for any reason . . . whether it stems from time, place, or type of behavior which . . . materially disrupts class work or involves substantial disorder, or invasion of the rights of others is . . . not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of free speech.” (Tinker v.
Des Moines Independent Community School District (1969) 393 U.S. 503, 506.)

You mentioned that limits on speech only apply at school-sponsored functions like baseball games and field trips... why then would it not apply on school grounds? Your logic is faulty, and you have conducted what is referred to as "headnote research." As the Supreme Court stated in the very case you cited, you are "not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of free speech."



[edit on 23-12-2007 by TheHypnoToad]

There is only one effective way to argue with simpletons like this teacher in question.

two simple words .. "Prove it"

This is the deal, I can see what you are saying and what some of your critics here are saying.

Number one it is not a good idea to be taking the conspiracy issues to school. Next thing you know you will be on some stupid list

Number two, to the people that are telling you to just go to school and be a liberal bullet sponge, do not listen to that.

Number three, instead of acting like you are now with the name calling of your teacher. Put that behind you. Do not act arrogant, and do not get mad at what she says ie. (whatever!) Act in a calm manner, always show that you are interested, but if you do not agree, let them know you are going to research it and that you would like to talk with them again about the subject. If it is closed for further discussion, go to your counselor and tell them you feel as though you are being taught political agendas in your classroom. That will include the research that you have gathered and what the subject was about. Let the school know that you are CONCERNED not worried but CONCERNED.

Number four: Always question things, but do not be subversive.

Number five: My Senior year in High School I was asked to complete my final two months at home, so it depends on how committed you are to being who you are. By the way i did graduate with a 3.8. Do not be cocky just be concerned and come with knowledge. PS for the guy that said I dont spend my tax dollars.............bananas, banana, bananas. Ignore that

OK, no matter what you think of your teacher, you should not follow her home with a pillow.

And, you should not follow her up the walk to her front door with a maniacal grin on your face.

Further, you should not walk into her house behind her and brandish said 'pillow'.

Finally, while she's running to get -her- pillow...

(as you stand in the living room pointing to your pillow, looking at your watch and tapping your foot until she gets the point)

...and, while she's in the bedroom, you may not fill your pillow case with as many treats, sodas, candy and lunchmeat from her fridge and calmly walk out the front door.

However, if for some reason you do these things, I think she should give you an 'A' in class for attention and lesson comprehension.

Of course you could remind her that if she touches you with anything other than a pillow, you will have her arrested and sue her for lots of money.



[edit on 24-12-2007 by Badge01]

Your teacher is a liberal gun grabber. Just give her the facts in a calm manner and if she doesn't want to argue with you, then don't. There is no need to try to make your teacher look like a fool in class, if she's already doing it herself. Teachers don't like to be embarresed in class, so don't make it a class issue, talk to her after class.

It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong when you disrespect the person you disagree with. No one will take you seriously if come of in a disrespective or foolish manner.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by Clan in da front]

I have to say here that I find your approach somewhat interesting.

To imply that you are the educated one and your teacher is not yet then make a comment saying that you wanted to slap her is not a particularly mature approach is it?

Teachers around the world do an extremely difficult job and are NOT deliberately spreading disinfo. Without being too familiar with the laws you are referring to, I would imagine that she is simply trying to help you avoid getting into a situation where the law may be unclear. If a teacher tells you to go ahead and shoot someone IMHO they are not fit to be in front of a class.

I'm a teacher myself and there are things that are on the curriculum that I have to teach that I do not agree with. However, it is my job to do so in front of a class. If a student wishes to catch up with me afterwards and discuss it in a mature way I am more than happy to. I'm sure your teacher will be the same.

There is a time and a place for such discussions and in a whole class situation, where there are a lot of students, is not the time to bring up any personal issues you may have with what you are being taught.

At the end of the day, your teacher is an educated professional doing her best to do her job. She is not part of some government agenda - teachers HATE the government (at least in the UK, we do).

Show her some respect and perhaps she'll enter into a debate with you.
My honest advice is drop the attitude and talk like grown up, civilised people.

Take care.

reply to post by more_serotonin_pls


In reply to "There is a time and a place for such discussions and in a whole class situation, where there are a lot of students, is not the time to bring up any personal issues you may have with what you are being taught."

Nonsense, if this is what is being taught by the teacher in a open public forum it is the perfect time for the student to ask questions, and give their views.

You would shut this young person off but allow an entire system in the UK to re-invent or not discuss the crusades or the holocaust because it might offend a muslim student. The supression of knowledge or the sidestep of history for some....but you would not allow this student to disagree with something openly that was brought up in the open.

It should be done respectfully but, freedom of speech. I am tired of everybody coming up with these clauses for freedom of speech.

We should be promoting these types of open discussions in our school, this is how learning takes place. I am sure you are a good teacher but lets get with teaching not supression.

This is old news, but you can still learn something accurate about the current state of affairs if you cross reference a few high school history texts. Propaganda on goes so far before it has to have some basis in fact or people won't buy the spin.

Originally posted by birchtree

Nonsense, if this is what is being taught by the teacher in a open public forum it is the perfect time for the student to ask questions, and give their views.

Sorry. I understand your view on this, but a classroom is not an "open public forum." You're right, in that an "open public forum" would be the perfect place for such a debate, but that is not the case here.

reply to post by seanking177


The best way to shut her up, is to go to a local gun store, or contact local law enforcement, and find out what the laws are(and see if they have paper copies, or online links) so you can bring in the proof.

reply to post by TheHypnoToad


Sorry, it is a PUBLIC school from my understanding this was a discussion in which the teacher was beaming her beliefs into the molding clay..That is not part of the curriculum, it is a teacher giving an opinion about whatever the discussion was about. If this is the case the teacher is limited by what they are aloud to bring into the classroom, but the student can pretty much express their thoughts (as long as it is not threatening to students or Faculty, which I am sure she was threatened by the display of her opinion)

Your quote from earlier was that Freedom Of Speech was Relative, it not only works that way for the students of the school but for the faculty as well. If they (teachers) are bringing up their personal opinions and political agendas in school (Unless you are saying that the school is attempting to mold our children into a specific political state of thought) she would be just as wrong as the student for expressing the opinion on the issue.

As far as this all goes, if teachers are going to teach their agenda or thought but not allow the student to state their opinion, then parents should go in to the superintendents office and make the case against the teachers bringing up these statements. Otherwise it should be Freedom of Speech for the students ....period..there is no relativity about it, and if the teacher does not want to hear what they students have to say, that means (s)he is making a statement as fact, on their particular point of view...Which is NOT, I repeat not a teachers job. and is INCORRECT.

reply to post by birchtree


And I agree that the parents have a right to go and question what their child is being taught.

I was simply pointing out that, even though it is in a public school, a school classroom is not an "open forum."

I agree with the rest of what you said, just not that one part.

reply to post by TheHypnoToad


It was prob a incorrect choice of words to say "Open Public Forum" I did not mean it quite as it may have come across. I was not trying to say there should be a violation of good order and discipline, so I apologize if it came across that way. Thank you.

reply to post by benign.psychosis


So by your logic

1. If a criminal breaks into someone's home it is clearly the homeowners fault because the home is his/her responsibility.

2. A person is a deranged lunatic for wanting to defend their own home.

3. Home invasion (robbery while someone is in the residence) is a normal way of thinking (you claim it is not a matter of being deranged)

4. A person is forced by the uncontrollable hand of life to rob and steal from others and they have absolutley no choice in the matter.

5. A person should not defend themselves unless it is "fair"

I think it is a matter of fact that someone would be deranged to break into someone elses home while the home is occupied and try to rob them. I can think of no situation in which this would not be. I mean, if it was a matter of life and death sure, but the majority of robberies (at least where I live) are a matter of aquiring goods to later sell to aquire cash for the purchase of narcotics or to simply aquire luxury items that are not available to the perpetrator due to their economic status. As far as the life or death argument for home invasion, that does not really fly either. There is too much free food and shelter available for the destitute in this country. They just have to choose to get it.

Now as far as Terror and Cowardice? They are actually two different words with two different meanings. Now I am not saying that you are incapable of telling the difference between two completely different words and their different defintions but I could be wrong of course.

Being terrified in a situation, ie having intense fear, is pretty standard in a situation in which you are encountering another person who may want to do bodily harm to you. In fact, without fear you can not be courageous. I will also tell you, having someone firing a weapon at you or confronting you with a weapon in a situation where you are not in a "control" position is terrifying. I learned that in the Balkans when I served and once back home when I was caught unarmed in a convienance store that was being held up by 3 guys with guns. Now being terrified and being a coward are different things. When a landmine blows the feet off of your translator and you go and retrieve him from an active minefield, well that is terrifying. But by your definition it also makes you a coward because you were terrfied?

And as far as the barred windows, fortified doors, etc etc.. Damn, do you live in South Central or something? Being armed puts you in a position that when all REASONABLE measures fail you can still defend yourself and your loved ones without turning your home into some tiny version of the greenzone.

It sounds to me that you may be a reformed convict or a liberal arts major. Either way, I think you should rethink your ideas on where the responsibility of ones action lie. Truly, you should not sleep with your doors or windows open and expect the gun under the pillow to solve any problems that may arise. A gun is a tool, not a magic wand. But to even imply that it is a homeowners fault that someone broke into his home is pretty absurd. You seem to think that once someone begins to enact a criminal undertaking he should be completely removed from any responsibilities of his action. Truly, a homeowner should take steps to defend his property, most theft is shown to be a crime of oppurtunity.

As far as all thieves being rapists? No, they are not. But seeing that they have already proven that they have no regard for a victims personal property or wellbeing I think it is always safe to assume the worse about someone who would break into somone elses home rather then asking them "Hey, uh..your just here to rob us right? We'll wait till your done back in the laundry room ok? Sorry for you life situation that forced you into this postition."