A question for enlisted soldiers

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Sorry Jezebel, I forgot the context of the post when I wrote this. I was still thinking of a foreign enemy. Actually, I believe that if the Executive branch crossed the line of constitutionality to the extent of sicking it's military on the populous, there would be a military coup. Which is exactly what is supposed to happen in that instance. Congress would welcome it, the Judiciary would back it, and I would trust my officers enough (even still) to make that call correctly. Plus, those officers know better than the president what the military would be in for if it was used against the American civilian population. If there is any people on the planet that would give our military a run for their money, it's the Americans!
DeltaChaos

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts on this! It gives me back a little hope on the matter!I hope the majority of soldiers share this stance. If not, we may be in for some real trouble if push ever comes to shove!!

This question is fairly retarded. I'm not going to answer it, simply because jezebel is looking to start a fight. Shameless.

Originally posted by medic
This question is fairly retarded. I'm not going to answer it, simply because jezebel is looking to start a fight. Shameless.

Eh, I didn't gather that at all from jezebel's post. She asked a good question and one that I've pondered on in the past. What if America becomes a police state? What should we expect? Should I look forward to family members, that are in the military, kicking down my door because of some trumped-up orders from their superiors? I hope not.

"Remember, the corporation loves each and every one of its loyal citizens"-State of Emergency

Originally posted by medic
This question is fairly retarded. I'm not going to answer it, simply because jezebel is looking to start a fight. Shameless.

How, pray tell, am I looking to start a fight? I said nothing insulting or inflammatory in my question. I had hoped to gather a number of honest, well thought out answers, from those who serve or have served in the military, to a hypothetical question that may one day be a real issue. If you feel that it is a "retarded" question, that is your perogative. I will say, though, that judging by your defensive reply, you appear to be either of the puppet persuasion or somewhat shallow. Neither of those descriptions may be true, but since you didn't leave me with anything else to go on, I have to call it like I see it!

Originally posted by medic
This question is fairly retarded. I'm not going to answer it, simply because jezebel is looking to start a fight. Shameless.

Actually, NO, Jez wasn't looking to start a fight at all. She very nicely and respectfully put forward an honest question. The fact that you did in fact post something here at all, yet at the same time let us all know how you're 'not going to answer it', IMO makes your response fairly retarded, not to mention pointless. Shameless indeed!!

This question is of interest to many people here as you may have noticed the first page of replies. I'm not sure if you're aware of it medic but the reality of the entire American Homeland becoming a Police State and being controlled under Military like force has become a very real and unwelcomed possibility for our future. The corruption of the Government and it's habit of War Profiteering and abuse toward it's people are becoming less and less tolerable for many true patriots who still know and believe in what this country stands for.

When you combine those two elements together and throw in a few million unstable, gun weilding, people who are waking up to the fact that they've been lied to for generations and are now pissed off at the world in general, you can see that a very dangerous situation does sit waiting upon the horizon should things go down that peticular path. I believe the question being asked is, should such events actually take place and civil unrest begin, just how bad will things get?

Will the Proud American Soldiers who are currently being broadcast world wide as The Hero's Battling Evil, simply turn into mindless and heartless drones on command and begin a campain of genocide against the homeland and it's people? Everyone knows about the skill and power of the U.S. Armed Forces and there is little doubt that such mighty soldiers do in fact Know What to do when told. However, do they also Know Why they do them as well? If so, then for who's benefit?

medics probably just having a bad day. Being in Iraq and all. And as a medic at that! How's the nerves, brother?

Hey, look, 18 months down, 18 months to go, eh?

Just kidding man,
DeltaChaos

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
medics probably just having a bad day. Being in Iraq and all. And as a medic at that! How's the nerves, brother?

Hey, look, 18 months down, 18 months to go, eh?

Just kidding man,
DeltaChaos

Yeah I know! I was trying not to be too bitchy. It's just that it was the guys like Medic, who are currently enlisted and serving, that I was really wanting to get a response from. If I had wanted to start a fight, I wouldn't have tried to word the question so as to avoid ruffling any feathers.
I support the men and women that are serving in the military, and I wish them a safe return. My feelings on the war itself are in no way a reflection of my feelings toward the troops involved in it.

What I was hoping to find out though is, Would the troops support us, the people, here at home, if the need should arise?

Medic I dont see Jez trying to start a fight at all and I believe the post to be very intelligent and looking for answers to what may very well be on its way to the USA in the near future! So again being in the military what would you do, fire on your fellow countrymen and friends in support of a Government run amok?

By the way Ive done my service way back, and my answer to Jez would be that I would not be able to side with the Government in that situation!

[Edited on 27-2-2004 by tracer]

Interesting question. I am no longer in service, but was enlisted (ets'd as an E-5).

Another poster pointed out that the troops would be from a different region, but I doubt that is plausible, unless the national guard is used. There is another alternative, and I believe this is the one the OWO will use, that is soldiers from a different country all together.

Years ago, I saw a map of how the world was to be "controlled", by regions. The U.S. was broken down in three or four regions, with eastern european/asian soldiers controlling the areas. These people would have little trouble firing upon American citizenry. I didn't think much of it because it sounded like fiction. Especially the part with Chinese soldiers in control of the Panama Canal area. The Chinese are in control of the Panama Canal now. It no longer seems so nutty. Especially since there are so many of our own troops scattered abroad.

I'm just waiting for the cataclysmic incident that call for troops available (foreign troops, obviously) to be brought into the U.S. to control the "circumstance".

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Interesting question. I am no longer in service, but was enlisted (ets'd as an E-5).

Another poster pointed out that the troops would be from a different region, but I doubt that is plausible, unless the national guard is used. There is another alternative, and I believe this is the one the OWO will use, that is soldiers from a different country all together.

Years ago, I saw a map of how the world was to be "controlled", by regions. The U.S. was broken down in three or four regions, with eastern european/asian soldiers controlling the areas. These people would have little trouble firing upon American citizenry. I didn't think much of it because it sounded like fiction. Especially the part with Chinese soldiers in control of the Panama Canal area. The Chinese are in control of the Panama Canal now. It no longer seems so nutty. Especially since there are so many of our own troops scattered abroad.

I'm just waiting for the cataclysmic incident that call for troops available (foreign troops, obviously) to be brought into the U.S. to control the "circumstance".

I share your opinion about the foreign troops. The UN has had soldiers on our bases for several years now and it has always been my impression that they were there in the event that the US military failed to follow orders and use military force against Americans. They are the ones that will be used against us instead. That has always seemed like the most logical explanation for why they are on our military bases, anyways.

I share your opinion about the foreign troops. The UN has had soldiers on our bases for several years now and it has always been my impression that they were there in the event that the US military failed to follow orders and use military force against Americans. They are the ones that will be used against us instead. That has always seemed like the most logical explanation for why they are on our military bases, anyways.


Did you ever consider the fact that they are here on an exchange program? Or maybe we are training them?

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Did you ever consider the fact that they are here on an exchange program? Or maybe we are training them?

I hope that is all it is, but my gut tells me that is just wishful thinking. It's definitely not a premonition I want to come true.

Alright, I apologize, I came on strong. However, this type of question is bound to bring responces you don't want to hear, which in turn is going to bring people on this thread, claiming "brainwashing" and likewise. And thats going to start it all. Once agian I apologize for coming in swinging, but this question probably isn't going to produce responses you like. I'll go ahead and answer it now, and I'd say that it would depend on the situation as I saw it. A tough one.

Intermission over. mOjOm, you were right and I was wrong. Patience is not a virtue
today. I was trying to walk everyone through the legality and basis of todays
military position and how it relates to Patriotism. Waste of time it seems.
Those who have it, do. Those who don't, have to talk about it and claim it.
(See Hillary's "I am a patriot speech")
There is a whole forum here on that topic as well.

medic === I'll go ahead and answer it now, and I'd say that it would depend on the situation as I saw it. A tough one.

Thanks medic. You guys are just great. Dont worry about the folks here at home. As
ALWAYS, some get it and some dont. You guys are all Heros. And thats why the
Republic, for which it stands, will always stand.

Lost my train of thought. Will try again.


/\/ight\/\/ing

Originally posted by nightwing
Intermission over. mOjOm, you were right and I was wrong. Patience is not a virtue
today. I was trying to walk everyone through the legality and basis of todays
military position and how it relates to Patriotism. Waste of time it seems.
Those who have it, do. Those who don't, have to talk about it and claim it.
(See Hillary's "I am a patriot speech")
There is a whole forum here on that topic as well.
/\/ight\/\/ing

NightWing, I didn't mean for you to stop your 'Soapboxing' of the U.S. History and all that. I understood that you were just giving a broad overview of Military activities in the U.S. and I was reading them as you were posting them as well. I was giving you the chance to include an answer to my question as well within your Historical Soapbox Report, although I'm not sure if you intended to do that or address my question afterward, either way I was going to wait until you were finished before I asked again.

By all means please continue your 'soapboxing' if you want, as I was reading it, as well as others I imagine. If not, then maybe you'd like to address my question I asked you earlier (on page 1) as I'd still like your opinion on it. Any other soldiers, past or present, who would also like to give their opinion about the question I asked earlier are urged to do so as well, as I'd like to hear from multiple people if possible.

To refresh your memories, my first post and question is back on page 1 of this thread (Post Number: 399248).

mOjOm == "either way I was going to wait until you were finished before I asked again. "

I know, I was just reacting to the flow of this forum
since then. But I do get carried away by topics that
are serious, and of special interest. So we shall do the
short version I think. How about I answer your questions
and give the historical parts as a thumbnail only if you think it necessary?

/\/ight\/\/ing

Uh....mOjOm....first we should apologize to jezebel I
think. It would be crude of us to hijack this forum.

/\/ight\/\/ing

Originally posted by nightwing
Uh....mOjOm....first we should apologize to jezebel I
think. It would be crude of us to hijack this forum.

/\/ight\/\/ing

We're probably fine so far. Plus my question, and your answer I'm guessing, isn't really hijacking this thread as of yet. My question is still very much in line with her original one. She is asking about the Military involvement against it's own homeland and people, if and/or when an uprising happens. My question is along those same lines, except that I'm wondering how well soldiers would be able to tell who the 'True' enemy was in such a situation.

An uprising against a corrupt system of Government is in fact the duty of The People, in order to correct the situation. An uprising for other purposes is another matter all together of course. How well do you think most soldiers would do in figuring out which situation they are looking at?

Personally I can see how a soldiers traditional methods of 'following orders without questioning authority' and 'shoot first, ask questions later' could result in an outcome nobody wants to be alive to see. Except for the soulless world leader(s) left in charge maybe.

(quote)So again being in the military what would you do, fire on your fellow countrymen and friends in support of a Government run amok?(end quote)

-phrazed like this, i doubt anyone would answer yes. clearly, the issue here isnt >>

"the government has run amok; what do you do?!"

but more like >>

"if the USA was in a Police state, as a soldier, who would you side with?! - the people or the Gov?!"

Now thats a tough question. And that question leads right to this question >>

"why are we in a police state?"

Originally posted by jezebel
If the United States were to become a police state and the government started to use military force against American citizens, to control and/or destroy anyone who didn't cooperate voluntarily , how would you react?

I'm not military (4-F) but my son, my Other Sons (two of them), two nephews, brother, father, and mother are all military -- and I grew up in the military.

The answer to your question is "fragging," "combat refusal," and "AWOL." home.mweb.co.za...

What these hypothetical "Evil Government Takes Over US And Military goes Along With It" scenarios DON'T take into account is the culture of the time. Children raised in a very totalitarian state or who are taken from parents and raised in state institutions would follow the state's orders fairly well. But those raised at homes and in communities aren't likely to ever attack their own communities, no matter what duress.

Most soldiers are civilians -- not professionals.

Professionals have a very different mindset than civilians (and military brats like myself have that different mindset as well) -- however, we're not robots.

Military takeovers are easiest done in small nations (Haiti) with a history of unstable governments and little loyalty to any one faction OR small states -- OR in a situatoin (many African nations) where children are captured by an army and trained to become soldiers. Another case where this is done is when you can religiously indocrinate soldiers.

We're a secular state, our children aren't being raised by a socialist state... and so on and so forth.

Impossible scenario, as things stand right now.

Change the culture and the answer might be "maybe." But not as things stand now.