Why Didn't the Planes Trigger Explosions Instantly?

Originally posted by Pilgrum
reply to post by SimonSays

Elevator shafts were not the only paths through the core structure and utility (water, power, phone, sewer) ducts would be continuous from roof to basement level. This provides the real possibility of burning material from the impact zone reaching the basement level.

I'm 99.9% certain your belief that conduits ran the length of the towers is incorrect. the towers were essentially three buildings stacked on top of one another, and elevators, mechanical and hvac were redundant for each section in the sky lobbies. The designers were fire-aware and not only did this sectioning allow the building to be feasible, but also served as fire-breaks.

reply to post by gottago
Thanks for that info - just trying to eliminate possibilities

I'm sure I'm not the only one wishing at least one of the towers had stayed upright to teach us where the defects (if any) actually were.

Originally posted by SimonSays
reply to post by Pilgrum

 

if the steel beam was heated to 4000 DEG in temp and then dropped
into a hole and covered up, it becomes insulated. It remains insulated
and heated due to other heated objects in it's vicinity. So while the
reactions wear off quickly, if it is insulated by another heat source
it remains heated for weeks.

An opposite example with ice cubes.

Take 20 pieces of ice from your freezer and put into a glass.
The exterior pieces of ice melts at a faster rate than the ones
closest to the middle.
Those in the middle are kept cold cuz they are being shielded from
the higher temperatures. They are insulated. This is why those
moltem metal pools stayed hot until that heavy machinery opened
up the insulation and let the heat out. It had nothing to do with how quick
the reaction was or took. It was how long it was insulated or buried.

I would think just the opposite because the temperature of the Earth is much cooler that the hot steel.

One word- Hypothermia.

Why do we cool off faster and die when immersed in cold water vs cold air? Because the cold water transfers the heat from our bodies at a quicker rate.

Yes the rubble was covering these "hot-spots", but the much cooler temperatures of the earth & seawater that had breached the "bathtub" should have dissipated the heat much quicker if it was just metal heated by the fires don't you think?

2PacSade-

bad sentence

[edit on 21-12-2007 by 2PacSade]

Originally posted by mr-lizard
I agree totally, the idea that jet fuel brought those towers down is ludicrous...

Also why was everything vapourised? I'm sure I read somewhere that cars parked around the buildings suffered from bizarre effects that melted tires and stripped the paint, how could this happen from burning wreckage?

The beacon idea is also something I've considered too.

You are right everything was vaporised which is questionable.Yes everything was vaporised except one of the highjackers passport and a plastic box cutter used by one of the terrorist??? These items were found in perfect condition on the sidewalk. The funny thing is no one has questioned that in the mainstream media. We are being lied to about the whole thing and this administration continues break law after law as though they are above it.

Don't forget the 50 ( fifty ) TON press that DISAPPEARED from the sublevel workshop. It was not just flung around..it was GONE. That means something. A force so intense blasted that bedrock area of the core members that it caused extensive damage all the way to the lobby, which was destroyed.

NONE of that came from above: none of it can be attributed to the ' plane ' crashes far above. No fuel remained seperate from the fireball and dripped down the elevator shafts like the uneducated mumble all the time: It is an impossibility, as pointed out above. The evidence is OVERWHELMING, beyond question..it staggers the sound mind to imagine anyone still clining to the torn and sinking raft that is the official story. The sharks are circling and snatching bites of the last bit of safety the perps have, and they are US!!

As long as the facts get screamed out long and loud enough, sooner or later the sleeping masses will awaken and find out what the real deal is, and the outrage will be heard far and wide. But first to dispel the lies and nonsense and get the science to the people in a way they understand. It can and will be done.It must.

wow, thanks everybody. this is quite the outpouring of discussion... and thank god no one has decided to start a name-calling match. thanks, all of you...

anyways, i understand about insulation and covered explosives. but even if only the inner core was rigged, wouldn't the heat/flames from any kind of jet fuel set it off? ie, you have a big thing of thermite. isn't there a good chance that a plane hitting a building which ontains the big can of thermit would cause it to go off? either by heat or direct force from shrapnel?

reply to post by alexbassguy


When controlled demolitions are used for implosion purposes, they are planted inside the beams at 45 degree angle (cutter charges only), and not planted on the outside of the beams for purpose of exploding out the beams from their supporting job.

Let's not rule out that the reason for charges not being prematurely detonated is that maybe there weren't any charges. Those angled cuts look surprisingly similar to the method used to cut up the still standing steel into transportable sections during the cleanup operation with oxy torches etc. Thermite reactions simply aren't containable/controllable to that sort of precision and even moreso in a vertical hollow tube. And consider the almost certain existence of undetonated ordinance in the rubble if there was any present pre-collapse - was any found.

Probably not a popular suggestion here but just my opinion

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Don't forget the 50 ( fifty ) TON press that DISAPPEARED from the sublevel workshop. It was not just flung around..it was GONE.

FYI - you sound like you misunderstand what a 50 ton press IS. A 50 ton press, as used in a workshop, is a hydraulic press that has an ability to exert a force of 50 tons.

Here's an example - shipping weight is 700 lbs.

www.harborfreight.com...

Just wanted to clear that up.

Originally posted by MikeVet
FYI - you sound like you misunderstand what a 50 ton press IS. A 50 ton press, as used in a workshop, is a hydraulic press that has an ability to exert a force of 50 tons.

Here's an example - shipping weight is 700 lbs.

Thanks clearing that up

So it's not beyond the realm of reasonably that it could have been shifted earlier by 1 or 2 people with a jack and a trolly. It could even have had wheels on it already.

[edit on 23/12/2007 by Pilgrum]

reply to post by Pilgrum


Who knows.

There appears to be some rubble down there. It could just as easily been buried by it from the jet fuel explosion.

reply to post by gottago


that is correct.
A shaft couldnt run the entire length to the top of the building.
So, they designed it in seperate elevator aspects.

With sky lobbies seperating each.

Originally posted by SimonSays

Originally posted by alexbassguy
1. They (whoever "they" are) rig the top 50 or so floors with explosives.

It is not my opinion that the upper floors were rigged with explosives.
It is my opinion that the core columns were cut by detonations in the
basement area which is evident by the lobby blast.

After viewing at the link below, I am not sure that work well at all, particularly on the twin towers:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by gottago

 

that is correct.
A shaft couldnt run the entire length to the top of the building.
So, they designed it in seperate elevator aspects.

With sky lobbies seperating each.

Absolutely wrong.

There were expreess elevators that went directly to the observation deck and Windows on the World deck in BOTH towers. And as one can see, they went into the basement levels, since that's also where one would get off the subway.

www.pbs.org...

A question - was there damage/explosions in the basments of BOTH towers, or only in WTC1?

[edit on 23-12-2007 by MikeVet]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
that is correct.
A shaft couldnt run the entire length to the top of the building.
So, they designed it in seperate elevator aspects.

With sky lobbies seperating each.

I'm still not 100% convinced that was no clear passage from the impacted zones to the basement. The elevator shafts, utility ducts, firestairs etc were created by attaching fire rated sheetrock wall material to the core steel structure. That sheetrock walling would have been blasted off at the impact zone and a good indication of this is the destroyed firestair access to the top of the buildings. So if there were areas within the core considered not a fire risk due to lack of flammable material within them, they would be compromised more than enough to allow a liquid to enter those 'safe' areas.

I don't think the scenario of whatever was left of the initial jetfuel after the fireball would be catered for adequately in the design which was dictated by economic considerations. Not that a jet-proof building is impossible to build, it's a question of affordabilty/practicality.

The ground you guys are treading has been covered before. The only elevators that went from the lower basement floors to the top-most floors were the main freight elevators, and WTC1's main freight elevator's operator survived the impacts from inside his elevator, because it only plunged so far. I think he broke his leg, but didn't suffer any burns or explosions down his elevator's shaft. I can find articles telling the man's story. His wife was also an elevator operator and she was actually burned. WTC1 is the same building William Rodriguez experienced explosions in, and lower-level elevators were knocked out, and the one video-interviewed firefighter (that the LC guys interviewed) said he witnessed a lower-level explosion, and so did a construction worker (Philip Morelli) in a different video interview.

So nothing came down that freight elevator's shaft in WTC1.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by bsbray11]

This indicates that such a passage did exist in relation to freight elevator #50:

In addition to the passenger elevators, there were seven freight elevators in each tower; most served a particular zone, while Car 50 served every floor.
* Car #5: B1-5, 6, 9-40, 44
* Car #6: B1-5, 44, 75, 77-107 wtc.nist.gov... (PDF pg. 72)
For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so. wtc.nist.gov...(PDF pg. 160)

I read the plans and the shaft for car 50 indeed reached the lowest possible sub-basement level - vitually bedrock level.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
how about: The 'planes ' were guided into a certain section of the Towers that were prerigged with explosives. The remote controllers simply used a beacon inside the building to guide the plane in. Then after the ' plane ' is seen entering the Towers, FULLY entering, then we see the explosions start popping out along a row on the side of the Tower and debris coming out.

Guided 767s at 500 MPH plus into just the right section of the towers that had the explosives rigged?

Need I say more?


[edit on 25-12-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Pilgrum
I read the plans and the shaft for car 50 indeed reached the lowest possible sub-basement level - vitually bedrock level.

I just posted right before you that car 50 was the main freight elevator and its operator survived -- there was no fuel air explosion or anything else down that shaft except for a falling elevator for a few floors, before it landed and the operator broke his leg.