Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Oh please... You know full well that all the Americans here as well as others are aware of the First and it's implications. Don't plead ignorance to that realization.

It isn't my ignorance - it is that of many others, who don't seem to realize what the actual problem with the whole situation is.

IF YOU KNOW what the first amendment SAYS then why do you persist with your inane arguments?

I'm outta this discussion. I can't stand the atmosphere.

reply to post by marg6043

I know my history very well, but in my case is not feed by religous bias to favor my believes.

Nice littler post but only shows how ignorance still plague our nation while preaching that is the other way around.

Perhaps anybody that do not subscribe to the extremist believe that you seem to favor should go back into caves until they repent and convert or be deal with.

That kind of thinking is just like the one Islamic extremist are using to kill people.

But in American we have laws to prevent radicalism, now you want to start a bashing fight and I am not for it.

See is the holidays, I am in a good spiritual mood, perhaps you should stop bashing and join the joy of the season and love thee brother like youself.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Marg/
I'm not bashing anyones beliefs!
As for that certain piece of 'History' I mentioned?
You do need to re read your History!
Constantine is not as you said!
Who is bashing,who's religion now?

Just because I choose to follow the Word of God in standing up for my rights as a Christian, does not mean that I am ignorant of other peoples faith and beliefs!
Stop making words up!

So are you calling me an extremist?
I don't understand the bit about the caves and whatever it is you said???
So I cant answer that!

What kind of thinking is that?
Oh wait,you say 'thinking Kills people'?
Hmm,this could be a new kind of 'Secret weapon'?
Isn't that what the Government does???
Getting back to your quotes/
Just because I choose to stick up for my beliefs, you are calling me an extremist?
But if I choose to allow to be influenced by other beliefs(be it whatever they are) Im all good with society?
Oh, please!


Did I state anywhere in my replies, that I wanted to start a bashing fight?
Can't you see that it is You alone who is stating that!
You see, we have Laws in Australia, that allows me to have an opinion(be it, for now!),it also allows me to have free speech in ones own personal environment....being where I am at!

Well, It's approaching Christmas and I'm in no mood to so call BASH(as you seem to think so, over and over)
Merry CHRISTMAS

helen

OK ok ok... so let me get this straight.

1) To properly display a Nativity Scene requires segrigation. Any other display of "faith" outside that of Christian belief would be disrespectful and possibly insulting should they each be displayed too close to eachother..

2) A Nativity Scene gets priority when being placed on Government property. Since December, specificly Dec. 25th is Jesus' birth date recognized, all other December holidays take a backseat.

3) Unless it is a Christian display of faith vandalized it dosnt warrent media attention or defending against said vandalism.

Great.. I think I am seeing the other side of the argument clearly now... pfft.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Creedo]

Helen, not allowing non-Christian religious displays along with Christian symbols is bigoted and discriminatory, yet you say you have no problem with Wiccans? If you have no problem with them, then you would be fine with the Pentacle being next to the Nativity Scene.

If you want people to respect your religion, then you need to respect theirs as well.

reply to post by forestlady


forestlady/
Your original post asked for opinions on the matter of a Pentacle being placed along side/next to the Nativity?
Correct?
Did not other members here, as well as myself, give you an opinion on the matter at hand?
With an explanation!
Why can't certain people accept the fact that each individual has an opinion?
It seems that the problem is not about the Pentacle being vandalized, but actually a whole different matter?
If it were about the 'Vandalizing' of the Pentacle, then let Mans Law'court system' deal with it!
VANDALIZING?
As for respecting others beliefs ........I don't have a problem with that, as I previously had said a number of times!

The problem lies when interference of peoples beliefs come into play!
It's not about the Nativity and the Pentacle being next to each other......they are just earthly material and both have meaning to the people, right?
It's about tradition and what it represents as a whole!
The Church is built and adorned with Gold and Jewels ......why?
Not because the Church wants to be rich or powerful, as many would quickly point a finger and argue to the point of self taught knowledge!
It's about The Kingdom of God on earth(church)being worth more, then mere Gold and Jewels, in which God sees them as building materials....
It is about holding on to ones traditions by word of mouth or as taught by Scripture.
Why change tradition and what it stands for,just so that it fits in with 'Mans Law', when mans Law is of this World!
''Merry Christmas''

helen

Hey, I'm new to the forums, although I've anonymously checked out the site a few times. I'm from De Pere (right next to Green Bay), and this debate is getting tired already. I have no problem whatsoever if a private citizen, or even an elected official, displays religious symbols on his/her private property. That is totally within the bounds of acceptability. When a place of power (like City Hall, for instance) is adorned with religious symbols, however, a problem arises.
Firstly, the Only-Natvity-Scene problem:
A Christian symbol standing alone on a place of political power is a statement that the people who wield said political power are members of that faith. It does not make any statement as to the depth of the belief of those individuals. This leads, logically, to the conclusion that these decision makers are basing their decisions on their religious convictions, not on things most people in an electorate (at least, I'm still hoping its a majority) want them to be basing their decisions on; things like logic, compassion, decency, common sense. By representing all religions or no religions, you avoid this problem.
Also, the idea that Christians are the only people to call this time of year a holy time is ludicrous. It's a hijacked holiday, and there are other religions that place importance on this time of year as well. Self-aggrandizing does not erase these facts, nor does it make your religion more important or correct than any other.
The Everybody-Now Problem
Displaying all the world's religious symbols together, while more inclusive, still has it's drawbacks. It highlights the lack of separation between Church and State. This might sound trivial, I've even heard it called untrue, but I'm pretty sure I'm on solid ground here. Elected officials are elected to use LOGIC, SOUND JUDGEMENT, and COMPROMISE to reach decisions. These are secular traits for the most part. Eastern religion does tend to place emphasis on these things, but pracitioners of these religions are an EXTREME minorty in this area. Ergo, if religious symbols of all kinds are placed on this place of political power, then it can be logically deduced that said power-holders practice western religion. To avoid this constant reminder of the continued ignorance of elected officials' mandate to improve our SECULAR existence, no religious symbol should be placed anywhere elected officials go about their elected official business. We do not elect a mayor to heal our spiritual malaise. We elect him to budget our tax revenue and to fix our roads. This is common sense. Hopefully, this hasn't been too preachy or combatitve, it's nice to be an ATS member, and I look forward to talking with all of you.

reply to post by helen670


Yes, I created this thread for discussion from Christians, non-Christians and everyone else. And that's what I'm doing, I'm discussing. Apparently you think I should exempt myself from discussion. Why? I'm an ATS member, same as everyone else here.

Nice way to avoid discussing the points I brought up, though.

Originally posted by helen670
The Church is built and adorned with Gold and Jewels ......why?
Not because the Church wants to be rich or powerful, as many would quickly point a finger and argue to the point of self taught knowledge!

This is a roar. Ever been to Spain, Helen? Don't tell me it's not about greed. Christianity destroyed a number of cultures to fuel its lust for stuff. These days it still pillages the local wallet and it's a little less obvious about where the ching goes, but it's still the same greedy animal it ever was.

Where do I get a pair of those blinders? I want to be able to tune out reality without dropping dope.

Originally posted by 123143
Where do I get a pair of those blinders? I want to be able to tune out reality without dropping dope.

That's funny and so true - I love it! I gave you a star

reply to post by 123143


I don't think you need a new pair of blinders. The ones you've got on right now that fuel your religion bashing hatred seem to operate quite well. Can we get back on topic without people feeling the need to have a religion bashing festival? I know it's popular and makes people feel good to bash religion and they think it makes them seem "enlightened" but this really isn't the place for it.

I am a Christian, and I believe as part of my faith everyone else is wrong, to be blunt. I am not a "everyones right, we're all worshipping the same god" deist. However - I can hold that view and still believe that everyone has a right to worship whomever and however they want, in any way they want as long as everyone involves consents. I do not bash other religions, I disagree with them but still hold that all religion is an attempt to express devotion to individual concepts of the divine, and that expression is beautiful.

Putting religious symbols on government buildings should not be an issue - it should be done as it was attempted here - let anyone who wants to decorate do so. The building is owned by the people. Unfortunately, a few crazy people always have to ruin it for everyone. Because this always happens, I say just stop it. Allow the employees to decorate their own offices however they want, but all public and common areas should be free of any religious symbolism. Everyone ends up being much happier that way.

Originally posted by 123143
This is a roar. Ever been to Spain, Helen? Don't tell me it's not about greed. Christianity destroyed a number of cultures to fuel its lust for stuff.

That goes just about for any culture/religion. Hellenistic cultures were as expansive and ruthless in their conquests as any others, and so were the muslims. That's a part of human nature and doesn't have to do with Christianity per se. The pagan vikings plundered all of the European coast. Your point?

[edit on 21-12-2007 by buddhasystem]

I don't understand what kind of importance this topic is about,kids always take bulbs etc,knock over displays,does making it Wiccan somehow important,sounds like a victim of circumstances,lot's of people hate wiccans,and other belief's sounds like someone making a mountain out of a mole hill

You know what, why let hatred turn into more hatred? Forget it...]

[edit on 21-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by LightinDarkness

I am a Christian, and I believe as part of my faith everyone else is wrong, to be blunt.

You see, such thinking as that is what make Muslims and a good many "Christians" the scum of the earth.. Continue fighting your wars for dominance though, you'll get what is coming to ya, both religions will..

If you equate somebody disagreeing with XYZ to them wanting to start a war over it, you have a mjor problem. Which is illustrated by how you labled ALL of the Muslims "scum" and select Christians as such. Some tolerance, freedom and intelligence here.







[edit on 21-12-2007 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by helen670


Merry Christmas to you again, remember we as a nation base in a belief that constitutionally protects freedom of religion I for one will defend any type of religious and none religious believes from fundamentalism and the most dangerous groups arising in this nation that unfortunately are hiding under Christianity.

BattlerCry is one of them and Jesus Camp

Their persistence to have a government rule by a Christian view that the bible should be the law of the land and that everybody should abide by it, will strip the rest of the nation from their freedom of religion.

I apologized if you do not subscribe to this radical movement that wants to change our constitution and our government into a Christian theology. That is no better than radical Islam in Arab nations, training children to be nothing more than full of hate and discrimination against any other form of religious and none religious believes.







[edit on 21-12-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
If you equate somebody disagreeing with XYZ to them wanting to start a war over it, you have a mjor problem.






[edit on 21-12-2007 by buddhasystem]

I suggest you take a good look at what is currently occuring in the world today and tell me where I am "wrong."

Ah, just replied to someone else who wrote about this.
They did not mention the Wiccan stuff was vandalized.

You know this vandalism exemplifies Jesus' teachings on earth.
Go and destroy all that does not agree with you.
Im sure jesus wanted to overthrow the Roman gov. with Judas and the zealots - set up and enforce their point of view, a true kingdom on earth.

So these guys who vandilized the wiccans are helping to overthrow the spirit of Rome!
Go team!

Seriously, how silly can people be.
How can they call themselves Christians? They dont show in the least any of the attributes Jesus did. They are full of an ego gone wild (false self as Paul put it) and use the name of Christ to act like untamed animals.

This is really ridiculous...

Peace

dAlen

May I humbly suggest in the seasonal spirit of peace and love we momentarily set aside our trivial differences and do something in the spirit of unity?

We could post stuff against the Amish.

After all, how would they know?

Merry Christmas.

reply to post by yeahright


Thanks for that littler post and merry Christmas to you too and love and peace in earth.

Originally posted by marg6043
Their persistence to have a government rule by a Christian view that the bible should be the law of the land and that everybody should abide by it, will strip the rest of the nation from their freedom of religion.

The Bible contains much of the material that has nothing to do with the ways the country should be governed. The Commandments, however, have been effectively incorporated into existing laws. I doubt that pagans, Muslims of Buddhists have any problems with "thou shalt not kill" etc. The "false witness" clause became our perjury law. It's also decidedly uncool to covet somebody else's wife. Do you have any problem with that? Does it infringe on your religious freedoms? It may be the case for a cult of lying homicidal adulterers. Do you condone ritual human sacrifice?

As for the current govt, you must be kidding. A bunch of capitalist pigs who are plundering the nation. Please don't put them on the same page as the Bible.