Masonic Temple Taking fingerprints and toothprints at local fair

reply to post by greydawn


No, there are not 360 degrees in Freemasonry.

Before the Grand Lodge of England was formed in 1717, there were only two degrees: Apprentice and Fellow. Following 1717, the Third Degree, Master Mason, was added to the system, along with Past Master and Holy Royal Arch.

After that, tons of new degrees were composed by different members, and eventually organized into various Rites (York Rite, Scottish Rite, Swedish Rite, French Rite, Egyptian Rite, etc., etc.)

If you add them all up, you will find *many* more than just 360. Both Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia list every known Masonic degree that's ever been in existence. They number in at over a thousand.

Any parent who has experienced the horror of having a child go missing, as I did, will be damned thankful to have a packet all ready to hand to the authorities. Having an updated picture is the most important of all. My situation turned out OK..it was his Mom that took him without my permission and I got him back..but not all people experience a parental abduction: The real horror is a stranger taking a child: NOTHING on earth can be worse..for a kid or parent.

Since ALL materials go to the parents, only a stooge could object to whatever club sponsors the event. Good for them!! And I am no lover of the Masonic thing, not at all. But this is different. Paranoia and nonsense have no place in this discussion.It is a simple matter.

Hey Fitz are you aware that Freemasonry is actually based on ancient Hindu philosophies?

Yeah I didn't think so. You've only learned what they what you to know. By the way

Freemasonry is more than a fraternity, just think about it. You go to a masonic temple

where you practice rituals, if that's not a religion then I don't know what is. The whole

thing is just disguised as a fraternity so that more people will be likely to join as they

can practice their other religion whatever it may be. If they think it is just a fraternity

then it won't interfere with their other religious beliefs. I can't help but call a spade

a spade. Sorry to let down anyone who thought they were in some fraternity, no its

just another religion with their own do's and dont's.

reply to post by greydawn


OK, its obvious this is (yet another) anti-mason who is/will be baiting us every time we respond. Just thought I'd like to go ahead and point it out.

You may ask, what are the characteristics of an anti-mason?

1) One who immediately attempts to redirect the nature of the fraternity into any other sort of institution that is deemed to be currently unpopular by society at large - in this case, the anti-mason is using the religious context as an attempt to subvert the actual meaning of the fraternity. Other anti-masons have turned it into a power-player networking cabal, etc.

2) One who makes such attempts on points of deception that have been completely debunked previously both on this board and on the internet at large.

3) One who claims to know the fraternity better than the masons himself, having had access to some sort of secret knowledge that lets him know what the masons are "really up" while the masons themselves have no idea.

4) One who uses some or all of the tactics covered in my anti-mason thread. This one has already used at least some logical fallacies: including sweeping generalizations, and appeal to fear.

Let the baiting and mason bashing begin. Again.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Say what you will about me, but I will continue to voice my opinion. As far as everything

I say being debunked, well yeah according to just about everyone else responding, who

are also self proclaimed masons. I just wish that you could see the esoteric side of

Freemasonry. You do realize there is an esoteric side to it? Don't you?

reply to post by greydawn


And the baiting continues! OK, I'll humor you once more and then I hope that everyone - me included - ignores the baiting...

Nah, one of my undergraduate degrees is in both philosophy and religion - what would I EVER know about esotericism? Not much. Except perhaps that freemasonry isn't a religion in any way and that the esoteric sides of the fraternity do not include anything you've mentioned so far.

And you still have not told us how you - as a person who is not a mason - somehow has all the esoteric knowledge about the fraternity that masons themselves don't have. How is it you came to these secrets that masons themselves do not have?

Simply because you have a preconceived vision of what you want the esoteric side of masonry to be does not mean it exists.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

In all seriousness you should check out CUTTINGTHROUGHTHEMATRIX.COM

The host Alan Watt is a brilliant speaker. Leaps and bounds ahead of anything else

I've read or seen. You can download literally hundreds of hours of mp3's he has done

over the years. Just don't confuse him with the other guy Alan Watts. Anyways, in the

past two years I have learned more by listening to him then I have in my entire life.

Alan has in depth knowledge into what used to be referred to as the culture creation

industry. He also has three books out, which I hope to get soon. Just give it a chance

and listen to one mp3, I believe you will be impressed with his knowledge.

reply to post by greydawn


Not impressed at all.

And not impressed you use that as a source of education..

And most definitely not impressed that you are even contemplating giving him money..

But knowing where you got your shrewed information from is enlightening in its self.. explains some of your views.

NO. Not impressed at all.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I agree. I actually did listen to one of his podcasts. He ***IMMEDIATELY*** (within 2 minutes) began telling us how the masons had some sort of secret language that we know from modern words that no one else knows when we speak them, a "secret language." He also stated no more than 12 (I counted) factual inaccuracies within 3 minutes. After that, I stopped counting.

Like Rockpuck, I am not impressed. Not impressed at all. He never cited a single source for anything he said, just simply proclaimed it was true.

Now Rockpuck, mason to mason - did you find any second language in these words? I am mentally trying to convey these secret meanings to you!

Rockpuck, I actually wasn't writing to you although I should have made that clear.

LightinDarkness, thank you for at least listening to an mp3 fron the website. Although

to really understand what he is talking about you must listen for a while, other wise it

won't make sense to you. I don't even know why I waste these gems on you. You

will never appreciate it for what it is. Although it would be interesting to hear you try

and argue any subject against the host of the website, you would be put in your place.

So here is a propsition for you. Why don't you call in the show sometime and state your

case about Freemasonry. The host Alan would gladfully fill you in on what you haven't

learned about Freemasonry. He also would do it in a very rerspectable manner.

So go ahead give it a try, see what he says, I'd like to hear it. If your so sure of your

faith you would have nothing to lose by talking to some guy whom you believe is

factually inaccurate.

Originally posted by greydawn
The host Alan would gladfully fill you in on what you haven't

learned about Freemasonry. He also would do it in a very rerspectable manner.

The obvious problem is that "Alan" doesn't know squat about Freemasonry, and even less about the esoteric aspects of it. Masons don't usually give money to non-Masons in order to learn about Freemasonry from them. The absurdity of such a thing is self-apparent.

I never suggested that anyone buy his books or send a donation to him. I only suggested

that LightinDarkness call in during a show and discuss the true nature of Freemasonry.

Nothing more, nothing less. Or since you're so sure of you're masonic teachings,

why don't you call in to the show Masonic Light. If Alan knows squat about Freemasonry

as you say, then why don't you prove it and we could all have a lively discussion about

the dialogue between the two of you. Or if you're too afraid then why doesn't another

Freemason call in and discuss the esoteric side of Freemasonry. Now is your chance

to get your point across. Any takers.

reply to post by greydawn


Why do we need to seek him out to correct his ignorance regarding Freemasonry? Why do you not give him this website and allow him to come here and post his vast wealth of 'knowledge'. If he is as brillantly gifted with the amout Masonic esoteric information as you think he is he should have a fairly easy time becoming the first person in Above Top Secret history to actually make these things un-debunkable.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

[edit on 17-12-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

Basically, going on the show would be the only real way to debate Freemasonry with him.

Any regular listener of his show knows that he would not take the time to come on ATS

and discuss Freemasonry. He doesn't live the life most of us are accustomed to. For

instance he spends a good portion of his day collecting and splitting wood as he does

not have central heating. He also uses a wood burning oven to cook his food. He lives

in Ontario, Canada where it is regularly -30 degrees during the winter. He spends a lot

of time every day just shoveling snow this time of year. Do you honestly think he is going

to come on ATS address a couple of low level masons? That is the funniest thing I

have ever heard. So it looks as if the only other option is to call in to his show. What

are you afraid of?

Originally posted by greydawn
Do you honestly think he is going

to come on ATS address a couple of low level masons? That is the funniest thing I

have ever heard.

1. We are not "low level Masons". I am a Past Master, a 32° Knight Commander of the Court of Honour, and a Knight of the York Cross of Honour.

2. Do you honestly think we who are Masons are going to seek *him* out? If he wants to learn about Masonry, he is free to ask his questions here.

Originally posted by greydawn
Basically, going on the show would be the only real way to debate Freemasonry with him. Any regular listener of his show knows that he would not take the time to come on ATSand discuss Freemasonry.

Being that I am not, I do not.

He doesn't live the life most of us are accustomed to. For
instance he spends a good portion of his day collecting and splitting wood as he does not have central heating. He also uses a wood burning oven to cook his food. He lives in Ontario, Canada where it is regularly -30 degrees during the winter. He spends a lot of time every day just shoveling snow this time of year.

I did not ask you to describe his daily activities in detail, but thank you anyway for that immensely valuable information. I will file it away along with my PIN number and Grandma Izzo's tomato sauce recipe.

Do you honestly think he is going to come on ATS address a couple of low level masons?

I know, what the heck was I thinking. Maybe when I become a 10(10)2 degree Ultra-Mason he might consider speaking to me on a neutral, free and open forum.

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

Really? What about the one regarding the guy from Nantucket? That one cracks me up......

So it looks as if the only other option is to call in to his show.

Sure, just as soon as I paint my house, repoint my chimmnies, urethane my hardwood floors and basically do every other house-restoration project on my never-ending list, then, and maybe then, I might take time to call in to a banal and inane program operated by a total paranoid.

What are you afraid of?

The thing under my bed and the IRS...........wait, maybe they are the same thing.

[edit on 17-12-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by greydawn
Basically, going on the show would be the only real way to debate Freemasonry with him.

His loss then. Sounds like discussion isn't what he's really interested in as such 'shows' are usually a talk-over fest that preach to the converted and don't long entertain contradiction.

Originally posted by greydawn
For instance he spends a good portion of his day collecting and splitting wood as he does not have central heating.

Ah! An off-grid home! Most people in his position would've been spending the fairer weather doing that sort of preparation, not leave it until cold weather's already arrived. Not making your hero sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Originally posted by greydawn
He also uses a wood burning oven to cook his food. He lives in Ontario, Canada where it is regularly -30 degrees during the winter.

Geography major, are you? I don't suppose it crossed your mind that Ontario stretches from Vermont to Minnesota and that the weather and temperatures vary widely across the province? -30 in Toronto is virtually unheard of while it's more common in Timmins (691 km due north I might add) or Kenora (1,855 km northwest). Try to be a little more specific in your locations as I wouldn't want to suggest that all Americans are bumpkins just on the basis of your laughable 'information'.

Originally posted by greydawn
He spends a lot of time every day just shoveling snow this time of year.

Where does he live that it snows daily? Or are you saying he drives a snowplow to pay the bills?

Originally posted by greydawn
Do you honestly think he is going to come on ATS address a couple of low level masons?

Perish the thought that a couple of "low level masons" would thoroughly demonstrate that he's talking out his sphincter vis a vis Masonry. Couldn't have that, could we?

Originally posted by greydawn
That is the funniest thing I have ever heard. So it looks as if the only other option is to call in to his show. What are you afraid of?

A "show" where he can cherry-pick the calls and hang up on the caller if he's cornered. The beauty of internet forums such as this is that a person would actually have to demonstrate reasonable knowledge of the point, not just bellow out the same talking points again and again and again. That person would be able to link to all sorts of information that supports his argument or refutes the opposing argument. That conversation would be available for anyone to enjoy at their leisure as opposed to having to be available whenever this "show" is on. This is an international forum, you know. Not everybody has the time or the inclination to listen to some wanker from God-knows-where. I'd wager that he's just happy with his status quo and isn't going to upset the applecart by being proved a fool.

My two bits Canuck FWIW

Oh, I'm so sorry your holiness, I did not realize that you were a 32 degree Freemason.

Now this just changes everything. I had no idea I was dealing with such a supreme being.

By the way I'm not even sure Alan is aware of ATS. I am not speaking on his behalf.

Freemasonry seems to define everything that you are. With out it you wouldn't have

any true sense of identity. You need the structure and brotherly connection that Free

masonry gives you. With out it you are nil.

Originally posted by greydawn
By the way I'm not even sure Alan is aware of ATS. I am not speaking on his behalf.

Could've fooled me. You seem to have an intimate knowledge of his daily routine. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you're a sock puppet for him.

Originally posted by greydawn
Freemasonry seems to define everything that you are. With out it you wouldn't have any true sense of identity. You need the structure and brotherly connection that Freemasonry gives you.

Really? Are you always so quick to jump to presumptious conclusions or is this just a good day?

Originally posted by greydawn
With out it you are nil.

Said the man whose life seems to revolve around Alan Watt. Interesting.

Its a very funny thing Fitz, how you appear on this thread when no one is even talking

to you. Why not let your mason buddy stand up for himself. By the way, anyone can

call into Alan's show and discuss any topic they wish to. I have heard hundreds of callers

call into his show and not once has he ever hung up on them. So you're wrong again.

Now you say that I am drawing presumptious conclusions about the other mason. When

you said that Alan is a paranoid where did you get that from? Ever listened to an entire

show? I didn't think so. On a side note I only know that he chops wood and shovels

snow beacuse he on occassion mentions his personal life.