Poor man's reverse engineering

Hello everyone, this is not my field but I am a believer. I wanted to pose a question to everyone and get some opinions.

There are many threads on ATS about going to the moon, we did, we didn't and so on. One of the most compelling arguments to me is the radiation in space and how we could not have survived it.

Another is the computing power of the space craft we had at the time.

So this is my theory, what if the Government practiced some poor man's reverse engineering? What i mean is, we have all seen pics and heard the description of the crash at Roswell. The one that comes to mind is the picture with the foil in it and the description of its properties. (sorry don't kow how to post pics yet)

If true I'm sure we spent many years trying to analyze it and duplicate it, if it was used in a alien ship maybe it was a radiation barrier for the aliens. We could not reproduce it accurately so we just pieced it all together and lined our capsules with it. ( it would have to be some wickedly strong scotch tape)

We only had a limited amount of it so the capsules had to be small, thats also why the massive recovery efforts, so we could re use it and study it further.
Our space equipment looks like its usually covered in some type of foil anyway so maybe that is our attempt at producing some.

Perhaps this is one reason the shuttle doesn't travel further, not enough Roswell foil to cover it all.

Perhaps it was the same thing with the computer power. I heard that some type of keyboards were recovered. Maybe they followed them to the computer they controlled. Probably we couldn't duplicate it but we could figure out how to use it.

I can't build a computer from scratch either but I know how to work one.

Again this would account for the recovery operations too. We HAD to get our capsules back, if another country found them with alien technology in them. It would be difficult to lose something like that and even harder to explain.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing some opinions, and I apologize for not being able to post pics yet.

bledforit
I'm sorry but in my opinion I think your theory is full of holes
regardless of how much duct tape you might use.

One of the most compelling arguments to me is the radiation in space and how we could not have survived it.

I don't find it compelling at all.

Of course they planned for exposure to radiation in space and there is some shielding. This is also why astronauts are limited in the amount of hours they can spend in space in their lifetime. Radiation might pose a risk for someone traveling to Mars and back... but not to the moon.

reply to post by bledforit



Actually the "Roswell Foil" as you call it, used by NASA on its spacecraft was nothing more than ordinary Mylar.

Not the most reliable source, but even Wiki has an entry referencing the development of Mylar (mid-1950's), and its use as an insulating and radiation shielding material, by NASA in the 60's and 70's.

In fact, I recall several published photos of the Gemini capsule in orbit with a big sheet of golden Mylar covering the base of the control section (I think that's what they called the white portion of the airframe attached below the capsule itself).


As far a computer power is concerned, translunar orbital mechanicls were well researched topics by the mid-to late 1960's. Sir Isaac Newton laid out the gross basics of orbital dynamics without even the aid of a mechanical calculator.

Remember, a slide rule may not be as fast as a PC, but in the hands of a True Rocket Scientist back in the day, it was every bit as acurate!

reply to post by Scramjet76


The problem with the radiation is a bit deeper than some may realise.

Firstly there are the Van Allen Radiation belts surrounding Earth, then there is the Moon itself, bathed in solar radiation for millions of years.

Scientists are investigating the possible threat posed to astronauts by inhaling lunar dust.

A study suggests the smallest particles in lunar dust might be toxic, if comparisons with dust inhalation cases on Earth apply.

Teams hope to carry out experiments on mice to determine whether this is the case or not.

news.bbc.co.uk...

During Project Apollo, astronauts traveled through the Van Allen belts on both the outbound and return trips to the moon. The crews spent only limited time in transit in the region, and consequently the radiation exposure was limited. The Apollo 14 crew recorded the highest Van Allen belt exposures during their February 1971 mission, but the crew's short-term exposure was still within acceptable levels. Future manned missions beyond earth orbit must also transit the Van Allen belts, but these missions will be shielded and hardened for much longer-duration exposure to cosmic rays and solar wind.

en.wikipedia.org...

The write up in wikipedia is a bit confusing for me seeing as it is edited by all sorts of people including anyone who wants to cover things up.

The Earth actually has two radiation belts of different origins. The inner belt, the one discovered by Van Allen's Geiger counter, occupies a compact region above the equator (see drawing, which also includes the trajectories of two space probes) and is a by-product of cosmic radiation. It is populated by protons of energies in the 10-100 Mev range, which readily penetrate spacecraft and which can, on prolonged exposure, damage instruments and be a hazard to astronauts. Both manned and unmanned spaceflights tend to stay out of this region.

www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov...

So, that statement is a bit contradictory to what wikipedia says and I'm sure we can all find a lot more info on that.

Flight duration and time spent on moon surface is also a factor that must be considered.

If the theory of the OP was in any way true, then it would make perfect sense. Proving it, like proving if man really did go to the moon, is, of course, another thing.

As much as we like to believe we did land there, the problem of radiation does stand in the way. Apparently, none of the astronauts to have ever gone into space during the 60's-70's have ever become ill due to radiation poisoning. Yet we are mostly aware that prolonged exposure can do major damage over time. I don't recall hearing of any astronaut to have died from cancer induced by radiation or any other illness caused by radiation.

And they were all up there quite a while too.

Just found the info I wanted regarding wikipedia editing... hence the edit.

It would be easy to shrug off the Wikipedia propaganda portal if not for the fact the online “encyclopedia” gets preferential treatment for the mega-search engine, Google.

www.truthnews.us...

[edit on 14-12-2007 by Extralien]

Right...


Has it occured to some of you that when USA did go to the moon, they really didn't have all that knowledge about radiation. They didn't know, they just went there. They knew it existed but did not have our current understanding of radiation and its effects.

It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to compare our current knowledge and making assumptions about what would indeed be ruled based on our current knowledge. They didn't have that knowledge.

Also, radiation can affect people in different ways, and people with good constitution can be affected less. Astronauts are required to have extraordinarily good immune system and constitution. How many of us run like 15 miles three times a week? some do, astronauts do. Their bodies has the capability to survive better because of the requirements.

You notice many theories are based on the lack of faith in man's ingenuity?

- We couldn't of built the pyramids way back when

- We couldn't of went up and on the moon in those days..

etc...We could, and we did; why not base new conspiracy theories on ET visitations _because_ of those facts, and not in spite of....

reply to post by Extralien


Your probably right. It's not the cosmic rays so much as the radiation belts. As for the shielding..

The best material to block high-energy radiation is hydrogen, explains Frank Cucinotta, astronaut radiation health officer and manager for Space Radiation Health Research at the Johnson Space Center. "But you can't make a shield out of pure hydrogen, so we look for materials than have a high hydrogen content, like polyethylene, a common plastic, which is 1 carbon and 2 hydrogens."

Astronauts would still need to cope with the 70 percent of the radiation that's getting through the shields. So Cucinotta and his colleagues are looking at other solutions, like medication.

NASA

Still, it is possible to cross the belts and Apollo did it. What they did is time their launches, so that they brushed the edge of the radiation belt over the equator.

The OP does bring to light how advantageous recovering an alien spaceship could be... I.E. even if we can't figure out their quantum drive we can analyze the material used in their craft for radiation sheilding.

However, I don't think one needs to invoke ripping off alien technology to get us to the moon. Scientists/engineers knew radiation was a big problem and prepared for it.

Get some Chromium, aluminium and a hydraulic press to crush it and then give it an electric charge.

Or mix the two together and give it a current of electricity running through metal rods throughout the whole body. The body itself would start to create an electromagnetic charge. The vibration would create a field of energy around and in. Once it starts humming, we will have lift off.

a negative and positive effect should take place.

Increase the voltage and she should be flying or lifting off.

The electromagnetic waves would be bouncing of the earths iron core.

The sediment in the earths rock would have enough of a wave. The Earth is a magnet. The magnetosphere.

Something that simple could start a revolution.

Hello everyone and thank you for the replies, I would especially like to thank those who actually put some effort into it.

Like I said, this is not my field and I just wanted to put the hypothesis out there so i appreciate the responses and you have pointed me in a great direction for further research on my own.

One point was made that we shouldn't knock humans ingenuity, I would never do that, there is absolutely nothing that we as a species cannot achieve. I was merely asking if perhaps we had gotten a leg up on the competition with some possible alien help.

Thanks

reply to post by Extralien


Your first statement about the moon is not valid. Things that are bathed in radiation do not become radio active unless they are covered with radioactive particles. Radio active particles are a product of a nuclear reaction. Also... Radiation only effects living tissue. I'm not a scientist but I do know some of the basics.

reply to post by Larry B.


Your statement is not correct, radiation of the right type and of high enough strength will cause changes in non living matter.Radioactive carbon 14 is created from nitrogen by exposure to gamma rays.
A nuclear chain reaction is propogated by neutron radiation, nuetrons are what split the uranium or plutonium
A reactor vessel will remain radioactive for generations after having a reaction run in it, even with no "radioactive particles" in it.
I suggest you do a little more reading.

OK I stand corrected. I agree with what you say. That would be the extreme, but I don't think the moon is radioactive just from just being there absorbing radiation though. I was trying to keep it simple. Thanks for clearing thing up.

Originally posted by bledforit

Like I said, this is not my field and I just wanted to put the hypothesis out there

Many a hypothesis has borne fruit.

I applaud your thinking.

Alien tech, though ?

Tough drink to swallow.

Regards,
Lex

From what I could find about it, the radiation from the Sun or the cosmic radiation are only dangerous for longer exposures, and the radiation from the Van Allen belts is avoidable because the belts do not cover completely the Earth, they are weaker in certain areas, so flying through the belts at those areas, and because of the short time it takes to fly through them, the amount of radiation that reaches the astronauts is also low.

As for the computing power, they did not have the need for high powered computers for the navigation, and that was the main objective of the computer. Also, by using a computer specifically built for the purpose, the lack of power is not that noticeable and can not be compared to that of a general purpose computer that has an operating system like those we use on our everyday life.

Here you can see how the computers were, and no, they were not from alien technology, just the common technology that was available at the time.