US: thanks for destroying our world!

US: thanks for destroying our world!

Answer: Your Welcome! and by the way that's ignore all the other countries who continue to contribute to pollution! Like India and China!

Two countries who need to change their ways!

Originally posted by traderonwallst
There is that word...appears.....that like saying...it could, it might not.

What it means is that the best evidence we currently have demonstrates this.

It appears that is the case.

And how did you know I was going to suggest that????

You might have missed that the post wasn't aimed at you. When it is, it should have your username in the quotes. The original poster criticised someone for fluffing some maths, suggesting their credibility was therefore questionable.

But then made a clearly erroneous claim themselves and therefore, by their own standards, they must have questionable credibility.

I think we can all make mistakes and errors. The next move when we do is to accept the mistake and correct it. But the more ideological types carry on regardless - spreading disinformation and misrepresentation

Didn't I explain the language of a scientist to you a few days back?...

[edit on 16-12-2007 by melatonin]

reply to post by jedimiller


WOW..........why the hell are you apologizing? US AMERICANS DON'T NEED ANYONE SPEAKING FOR US.

I am not apologizing for anything. We and I have done nothing wrong!!!!!!!!

Stop sounding so spineless.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
If we are being gleaned from a massive galactic civilization, we might be demonstrating our ignorance with our nationalistic, race or culture-based and patriotic behavior, recognizing our "differences" in stead of recognizing the bigger picture of what we all have in common and coming together for that. That, being our Earth, it's diversity of life, it's beauty and sacred nature.

Please tell me you are not spreading aliens into a topic about climate change?

Intellectual perspective my friend. Unless you can think of another objective context that can demonstrate how we are not the pinnacle of intelligence we fancy ourselves to be. Humility demands we look at ourselves as objectively as possible. Unless we can find a spokesanimal of an endangered species or similar to comment on how stupid our species is behaving, and how stupid those who know better are for letting it happen. We can pose a theoretical.

Does the concept scare you? It likely does anyone who's egocentric myopic self image is in a closed loop. But, if true, have a fresh pair of trousers ready. It sounds like your ontological bubble is endangered.

The science suggests It is looking more likely.

ZG

Why isn't pollution THE concern, and taking THAT into acount, analyze the history of the planet in relation to changes that occur after improvements? It could be written into the laws of each nation, or applied as one of the intentions of the TEN COMMANDMENTS.
One of the keys I remember from basic-science in primary or high school is;
"Don't contaminate the experiment". Seems that's never a posture in public relations, and ignorantly, or guilefully, I don't know?
If the same degree of concern for "clean-rooms" in satellite assembly occured throughout the planet, would we be better off?

Originally posted by jedimiller
there should be a law against SUV's and trucks. and if you have to drive one it better be for a cause like bvanpool or recycle.

All heil jedimiller.
If you want to conserve and be 'green' for no reason, by all means go ahead. However, leave me alone and don't bring me along for your ride in lunacy. I like driving in my BIG truck. I crank up the air conditioner when it gets hot and I crank up the heat when it gets cold. I don't recycle and I don't use the expensive & useless energy saving bulbs. You do what you need to do but please leave me alone!

Since the entire 'humans are causing global warming' movement is total garbage, who gives a rats ass how much greenhouse gases the U.S. is putting into the air. It makes no difference. Nothing would change if the U.S. all of a sudden stopped all greenhouse gases. Why? Because what we are seeing today is a natural cycle either by the Earth itself or the Sun.

Secondly, why don't you complain about China. They are the biggest polluters. I see......only the greenhouse gases from the U.S. cause damage. I bet you don't know why China signed Kyoto and its not because they care about the environment. Its because Kyoto is worded in such a way as it would severely cripple the U.S. economy. This is why the U.S. did not sign it.

Using your logic, I am polluting right now because I am exhaling CO2. Sad, just sad.

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by DrZERO
TraderOW, you hit the nail on the head. All this supposed climate info is generated from MODELS and SIMULATIONS that are suppose to predict the "climate" 100+ years from now.

The quotes you used above showed that they were also talking about observational data.

There is satellite and radiosonde data that both show warming in the troposphere. Again, from the summary:

Previously reported discrepancies between the amount of warming near the surface and higher in the atmosphere have been used to challenge the reliability of climate models and the reality of humaninduced global warming.

So, there were incongruencies between observations and what the models predicted. But reassessment of the data showed contamination from stratospheric influences.

You were interested in whether the troposphere was warming, you said it wasn't (I think), but the observations show it is.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by melatonin]

My point exactly, and the majority of the OBSERVATIONAL data shows that the surface temperatures have risen faster than the temperatures in the troposphere. "Reassessment" of the data thru computer modeling and simulations can be manipulated any way the researcher/programmer sees fit.

I may have been naive in saying that the upper-level atmospheric temperatures have remained constant as the atmosphere as a whole is an ever changing array of variables, but I still maintain that data does not support that greenhouse gasses are responsible for global warming.

The article you linked to also makes reference to other variables such as solar radiation, volcanic activity etc. that contribute to the warming trend. How can anyone possibly separate the affects of such variables from that of carbon dioxide?

Originally posted by jedimiller
this is why huyndai is the leader in innovation when it comes to vehicle emmisions. they have the best out there. there should be a law against SUV's and trucks. and if you have to drive one it better be for a cause like bvanpool or recycle.

A law against trucks?? Did you go to the grocery store this week and buy food? How do you think it got there? Just magically appeared??

I have a feeling it was brought there by a truck, along with all the other stuff in your house that you went to a store to purchase. If you really want to solve the problem why not suggest a more plausible solution like teleportation. Then we wouldn't need any trucks, cars, busses, vans or airplanes!

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan

. . . Using your logic, I am polluting right now because I am exhaling CO2. Sad, just sad.

[sarcasm]Yes, we are all polluters, but we can all feel better once the Carbon Tax is in place, that we are really doing something about the problem.[/sarcasm]

Whoever came up with the terms Carbon Footprint, Carbon Offsets, Carbon Neutral and Carbon Credits should be drawn and quartered.



[edit on 16-12-2007 by DrZERO]

About half of the US is unbearably hot in the summer, and about half is very cold in the winter. Our counrty is very big, and we require significant amount of transportation fuel to move people and goods.

So excuse us if you can't understand the need to keep our homes warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

Excuse us if you can't grasp the size of our country.

Excuse us if you cant accept that we don't like luke warm showers with no water pressure.

Originally posted by kindred
Welcome to Planet Earth, the capitalist whorehouse where the only things that matter in life are money & power.

And yet you are still using a computer, the internet, developed by evil capitalists. Yes, it is evil capitalists that are destroying the world. Perhaps we should look for our salvation in the communist nations; you'll be waiting a very long time, China and Cuba are not developing innovations, such as that wonderful computer you are hypocritically using to complain about the evil capitalists.

Of course, I am sure you will blame that all on the capitalists as well.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And yet you are still using a computer, the internet, developed by evil capitalists. Yes, it is evil capitalists that are destroying the world. Perhaps we should look for our salvation in the communist nations; you'll be waiting a very long time, China and Cuba are not developing innovations, such as that wonderful computer you are hypocritically using to complain about the evil capitalists.

Of course, I am sure you will blame that all on the capitalists as well.

Lets not forget that most here will also have a xbox or playstation, a new plasma or lcd tv, a cell phone and a car. Damn Capitalists

Originally posted by DrZERO
My point exactly, and the majority of the OBSERVATIONAL data shows that the surface temperatures have risen faster than the temperatures in the troposphere.

I don't really get the issue here. If you read the report, it is unclear whether warming is greater or not tropo vs. surface. The problem is the tropospheric data.

The models show similar contrasts, different models can show a bit more warming in tropo than surface, and others vice versa. It needs clarification, sure. But it's not inconsistent. We expect warming there - it is present.

I may have been naive in saying that the upper-level atmospheric temperatures have remained constant

I think the word you're looking for is 'wrong', but that's cool, suppose it was an acceptance of that, and that's a good thing - discussion may not be futile.

but I still maintain that data does not support that greenhouse gasses are responsible for global warming.

What do you think is causing warming? If you were naive about the tropo warming data, how can you make any grand claims about the other stuff?

GHGs help to warm the troposphere and surface, they are increasing, they will make the troposphere and surface warmer. The observation is that the surface and tropo is warming, it is less clear on the exact extent of warming in the troposphere.

The article you linked to also makes reference to other variables such as solar radiation, volcanic activity etc. that contribute to the warming trend. How can anyone possibly separate the affects of such variables from that of carbon dioxide?

Volcanic activity would actually reduce the warming trend, but it might just be a lack of clarity on your part.

This is because climate is very complex. Doesn't mean we can't get a grasp on this stuff. We can measure solar activity, we can make assessments of the effects of aerosols (e.g., sulphates from volcanoes), etc etc.

We have competing forcings and feedbacks. We can take your route and say "it's all too complex, lets fogeddabowtit" or we can do some science using evidence to the best of our abilities.

I know my choice.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by melatonin]

I have stated this inmany threads allready, the whole "Global Warming" has more to it than just tempature... And it has alot more to it than just CO2... Its all about Natures biosystem and the polution, and the health of us all, aswell as naturall disasters and all that.

But look at the GHG's below and tell me if you think they are healthy for you and nature or not?

If not to stop "Global Warming", then please help to give us all a better/healthier life.

Greenhouse Gas Inventory Data

In accordance with Articles 4 and 12 of the Convention, and the relevant decisions of the Conference of the Parties, Parties to the Convention submit national greenhouse gas (GHG) inventories to the Climate Change secretariat.
These inventory data are provided in the annual GHG inventory submissions by Annex I Parties and in the national communications under the Convention by non-Annex I Parties.

The GHG data tables contain estimates for:

CO2 - Carbon dioxide
CH4 - MethaneN2O - Nitrous oxide
PFCs - Perfluorocarbons
HFCs - Hydrofluorocarbons
SF6 - Sulphur hexafluoride

unfccc.int

This whole "I hate you for poluting" isnt helping anyone, and we are all responsible for the planet... Yes, nature has its course, but so do we.. and both affect our daily lifes...

reply to post by jedimiller


I know you have to be kidding, I am still laughing from reading your post. Dont apologize for me, and unless you are off the grid using some jedi mind tricks for your power, eating grass and living in a bio-degradable solar dome you are still making the American Capitalist Pig Carbon footprint these people are accusing you of....Your Hyundai still uses gas why arent you riding a bicycle... Dont apologize for your Country, sometimes I wonder are there any patriots left in this Country. It is OK to admit when we make mistakes and try to search for solutions but dont bow down. what is wrong with you man

THE US AGREED TO CONDITIONS OF EMISSIONS CONTROL IN BALI ON THE 14TH !!!!!!

reply to post by jedimiller


By the way I was wondering are you a Hyundai Car Salesperson... I think you might have a future there.

reply to post by Mdv2


you fail to mention china, and india! you also fail to say that even the kioto people say their plan won't work. the emissions in the U.S. went down last year!!! The Eropeans who signed onto kioto had an increase! So you need to learn the facts and stop spewing hateful lies about the U.S.! And Europe produces more crap than we do!

reply to post by Mdv2


you fail to mention china, and india! you also fail to say that even the kioto people say their plan won't work. the emissions in the U.S. went down last year!!! The Eropeans who signed onto kioto had an increase! So you need to learn the facts and stop spewing hateful lies about the U.S.! And Europe produces more crap than we do!

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Damn Capitalists

Let's also not forget that due to the evil capitalists, she is able to enjoy the comfortable life she is living. She can thank the evil capitalists for not only the computers, but for the electricity it uses. She also better think them for the food she purchases from the grocery stores, that keeps the food cheap so she doesn't have to worry about where her next meal is coming from, so she has time to complain. And the evil capitalists that developed the trucks that bring the food to market. And the evil capitalists who developed techniques for keeping that food fresh on the way to market. She can thank the evil capitalists too who helped develop the medicines she takes to ensure she has a long and healthy life. And chances are, an evil capitalists provides her with her job.

And yes, "evil capitalists" have contributed to the state of the environment. But before condemning them, and embracing Communism and Socialism, I would suggest you take a long hard look at the environmental degredation wrought in current and former Communist states.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by Mdv2
the American people have always been too stubborn to change their polluting habits is not a new fact.

I live less than a mile from work, the market, the mechanic, and the gas station. I have reinsulated my home and installed high efficiency appliances. I compost organic waste. I grow much of my own vegetables. I have cut down from 25 business flights per year to 3. I buy only organic groceries. And I drive less than 2000 miles a year in a relatively gas efficient vehicle.

And I am an American.

Thank you for your ignorant generalization of an entire nation.