WHere is our Tax Money going??

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Thats now what i meant by forget about it....im italian we use that phrase a lot. I will read it....but seriously how do you know its true? I know thats a big question but why should we take the audit for granted and assume its legit when there are so many disparities with the service? What do you mean i have no evidence....i was delayed about an hour one day and another day about 2 so what are you talking about? If the money went to where it was supposed to go the trains would run efficiently but they dont.....thats the truth. so there answer is to raise fairs....what about not paying the president of the MTA a miliion dollars because the people need the money more? What about that?

reply to post by GUICE2


Ad ignorantium fallacy. How can you prove anything? How do we know YOUR not a government disinformation agent? How do we know we really exist? Simply because you cannot prove something to suit your standards of proof does not mean it is not true, and it is a invalid method of argumentation.

Non-sequitur fallacy. Just because you experienced delays does not indicate corruption.

You continue to ignore the reality that (1) top government employees must be paid well because they can get 2 or 3 times more in the private sector, and that (2) one million dollars is a laughably small amount of money compared to the budget of the MTA. You could pay every one of the board $0 and it wouldn't make up anything.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Ok i guess i will take your word for that fact....you really think that if they stop inflating these salaries they cant find someplace for the money? If thats true then the system really is corrupt....i cant beleive you at least cannot admit that there is some sort of a problem with the way it's organized. Come one....just a little bit?

reply to post by GUICE2


Salaries are raised based on cost of living. State employees almost never never get free raises. It can happen, but is very rare. You are funny if you think any state employee has "inflated" salaries. There are positions that are funded that not needed in government - that is very true - but the vast majority of individual employees are underpaid.

I have always said that government employs people it does not need. But it is not a result of corruption. It is resulted of punctuated equilibrium.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


So the board memebers of the MTA should have a salary that would make most people consider them to be rich? Does that play into the equilibrium that you are speaking of? Where is this information by the way? People would be pissed if they found out how much these mongrols get paid because almost every year the price of public transportatin goes up and not just on the train....what about the bridges and tunnels?

reply to post by GUICE2


Yet again, the same points that have been debunked? When will you get it? Never, of course, because that would mean opening your eyes...

By the way: GASP - costs go up everywhere every year. Its called inflation. Economics 101, I highly recommend it.

You fundamentally misunderstand government salaries. Top appointed employees must be paid well, because they can get two or three times their salary in the private sector. They never get paid what the private sector is worth. Also, you fail to recognize that if you paid the top administrators of the MTA $0, you would make absolutely no dent in the budget. Their salary is nothing compared to the infrastructure costs of maintaining public transportation.

[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Dude you keep missing my point.....i get the inflation thing blah blah blah economics, great. More indoctrination for a flawed system. Good stuf.....im talking about real time like right now. I pay almost 200 on a monthly ticket and next year i hear that it will be increased by about 15%. So next year, when i get hit with that increase, are the salaries of the MTA board going to be increased as well? Or will the be decreased? If all of this cashflow is under one budget and payroll then increasing fairs means more money for the system, and increasing salaries means less money for the budget right? Or is there a correlation between the two? When salaries are increased the fair is as well because that increase takes away from the operational budget? If that is way off than tell me how it works.....

reply to post by GUICE2


You completely ignore all the proof and call it indoctrination. I call YOUR talking points indoctrination. You don't even have proof for anything you say, you just want to think everyone is out to get you because you want to play the victim.

Its called inflation. Learn about it. You should also know that you never pay the full cost for government services. Individual tax payers, as a matter of known fact, pay less in taxes than they receive in services. The only people who pay more than they get in return are - GASP - BUSINESSES! OH NO!

As for everything else, you should read my statement again. I can't say it any different way. You will continue to ignore it, but here we go again:

You fundamentally misunderstand government salaries. Top appointed employees must be paid well, because they can get two or three times their salary in the private sector. They never get paid what the private sector is worth. Also, you fail to recognize that if you paid the top administrators of the MTA $0, you would make absolutely no dent in the budget. Their salary is nothing compared to the infrastructure costs of maintaining public transportation.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Christ man i get it! Im disagreeing with you because im simply saying that government employess are civil employees and should not have inflated salaries or "high salaries" especially when the institution itself needs improvement. Whats so hard to get about that? If i was the head of the MTA i would be more worried about getting the citizens to work on time than my christmas bonus.

reply to post by GUICE2


Too bad for you that you have no proof of anything you claim. In fact, the voting board of the MTA gets paid nothing. More lies from you to prove a point.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Man....sorry for that mistake. Maybe i should have said....i heard that they get paid so you wouldnt have to attack me for just making up facts. Now that i know its a fact i asked another question...thats how you learn. Why are there voting members at all and why dont they consist of the general public since we are the ones affected more?

reply to post by GUICE2


Again, when one lie is exposed you run to the next. Why is it that you do not directly get to vote on bills? Why is it that we have a Congress? If you do not know the answers to these questions, I cannot help you.

You complain about how much the big bad government takes from you in taxes now, you have no idea how much it would cost in taxes to institute a direct democracy even on the local level. Your MTA fares would go up to $50 a day for the infrastructure needed to hold a city-wide vote of all MTA users on every issue. And then you'd whine about that. Your just never happy, are you?

[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


What if i know the answers but still ask the questions?
We elect those people who vote on bills and such but i never heard of that lady you copied and pasted in your other post....wh ois she? how did she get the position? Whas she voted in or is this an example of cronyism? Are there elections for the MTA board where the general public can review who is running and then determine if they are qualified to hold a civil service position? She definately gets kick backs...i dont have proof but you know what, we live in a capitalistic society and almost no one does something for someone else without getting something in return so thats BS if it says she receives no salary. She definately gets something......
so if we cant vote for the MTA board then why are they voting on issues that effect us? where is the representation of the general populace?

reply to post by GUICE2


You want to elect everyone in government? Fine. Lets have elections - on everyone! Lets ensure that everything becomes political. And by the way, enjoy the substantial increase in taxes you will get when we must now hold costly elections. Will you blame that on the elected officials now?

You have no evidence or reason why they should be elected. Elections are held for offices which enact laws that impact the entire population and are generalist in nature. MTA Board Members are SPECIALISTS in nature, and by electing them you would only ensure your fares go up and that people who are actually qualified would not run. Political science, its a great subject on this sort of stuff. Read a book on it.

MTA board members are appointed by the governor and CONFIRMED BY THE LEGISLATURE. Oh wait, aren't those elected representatives? Indeed they are. You have direct influence on who gets appointed by the type of person you elect. Elect someone that has views like yours on transit policy (though you won't find any).

Stop it with your lies. First you tell us they are paid WHEN THEY ARE PAID nothing, and now you claim they get kickbacks? WHAT? Making up lies again are we, in a desperate attempt to prove your point? How typical. How do we know YOUR not getting kickbacks from the Communist Part of the United States? I have no proof, but after all we live in a capitalist society and SO YOU MUST BE GETTING KICKBACKS! PROVE YOUR NOT!

ENOUGH!

This is not a debate, this is you with your preconceptions of the world refusing to acknowledge reality. You base an entire argument upon a lie, and it never occurs to you to check the facts. That is because you do not care about the facts, you care about pushing your victim mentality to the front.

It is quite obvious now that you feel the overwhelming need to "be right." Part of that, for you seems to be getting the last word. Go ahead, go for it! I want you to reply and get that last word in, make yourself feel you are right. This entire thread has shown anyone who cares to read what is really going on: you refuse to acknowledge reality, and instead prefer to stick to insults and a victim mentality. You lie to make up points, and when your lies are exposed you claim ignorance.

I no longer have to respond to you, because your house of cards has fallen. It's proof enough for everyone to see. Enjoy getting the last word and satisfying that overwhelming urge you have to be right. Ignored.


[edit on 20-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Im not getting kickbacks because im in so much debt...hahaha that was easy to prove. O and i said they probably get kickbacks which was another assumption because at this point without the actual info or knowing someone who sits on the board NEITHER of us know exactly how it works. I dont care how many googles you do on the subject you still wont know the inner workings of the MTA board until you talk to someone involved. this is why whistleblowers make me happy because they finally reveal the hidden agendas if they exist.


So your telling me they are elected which is all fine and dandy but would it be fair for them to determine the price of public transportation? I dont think so, why do they even need a board? the public can vote via poles and public hearings which they do actually hold but im not sure that we can make an effective difference in the MTAs policy from attending a public hearing. I'll go to one and let you know.....

www.usaspending.gov...

Didn't see that anyone had posted this link... good luck in trying to figure it out though.