Dogs can Reason...

Dogs can Reason...

news.yahoo.com

PARIS (AFP) - Dogs can sort photographs into categories, in the same way that humans and other primates do, the British weekly New Scientist reports in its next issue.

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Having owned many pooches, I intuitively knew that dogs can reason. Now, we have some hard proof. This is just more indication that man does not have a monopoly on thought, that the animals we eat and use for coats and shoes are indeed aware, have thoughts, have memories, dream, and have goals. No they don't have our capacity for foresight and abstract reasoning, but they are every bit as sentient as, say an austistic human child. In some ways, they are superior, even intellectually, as this link shows:

ca.news.yahoo.com...


news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Thanks for posting this!

Glad to see that scientists are confirming what many pet owners have known very a very long time.

reply to post by TheHypnoToad


Exactly what I was thinking.

I talk to my dog, along with every one else in my family. Hes a very vocal dog (Sheltie/Pomeranian) and after this many years (15) he has many different patterens he will use when he needs to communicate something.

For instance. My dog can understand the context of someone making fun of him. If I was to talk to him in a teasing way, point and laughing at him, about the left over crap that is on his hind end from his trip outside he will "Yip" back at you/me in a way as to say "Piss off! Stop it! Shut up! Asshole! Try no having hands!" I said 'Yip' because this is not a typical bark, they literally sound like "Yip, Yip, Yip" rather than barks. Almost like a kid crying to stop making fun of him. He also walks around for a moment with a demenor of embarasment untill I clean him off and stop bugging/playing with him. He really is very very sentient.

Other might say that this is me giving him these traits. But I think that any long time pet owner will tell you the same thing. We learn their way of communicating over time. Essecially the ones with VERY VERY vocal pets, like my little Sheltie/Pomeranian best friend.

Another thing that I have found with my dog, is that from time to time, he will fall into a very very deep sleep where hes dreaming I assume. He has before moved his paws and other mild movements in this stage, but for the most part his eyes under his eyelids just move rapidly around. I assume that eye movement is REM sleep, or dreaming. Also hes almost impossible to wake when in this state. The first couple times he did this I got scared as I thought he was sesuring or something, but hes lasted 15 years so far, so Im sure its not doggy epilepsy... Im almost sure they dream.

[edit on 6-12-2007 by JbT]

reply to post by JbT


I am positive they dream! Just a couple of days ago, one of my dogs was on the floor wagging her tail. I wondered what she was looking at, until I realized she was asleep. I watched her for a few minutes... her eyelids, lip, and feet were twitching and then she would wag again. So cute!

I know that she was dreaming... I just wonder what she was dreaming about!

By the way... my parents' dog has epilepsy. Those seizures are the most horrible thing that I have ever seen in my life. I felt so helpless during the last one, and didn't think it would ever end. Trust me, you would know the difference between a dream and a seizure. Hope you never see one.

Thanks for posting this critical information! I am shocked at how many times I hear things about animals. Such as animals have no souls. Or that animals dont feel emotions.. And they can only see in black and white, ect ect ect..

The list goes on and on about what Man thinks he knows about dogs. Or any animal or insect for this matter, but right now we are talking about dogs. Which I have had pets all my life, and still to this day..

I know that most things people think they know about animals are extreamly wrong and just bias. I dont know where this steams from but it sertinly is repeated over and over agin to us as a society.

I have always known dogs can reason. When you have animals you just know! And all my dogs have had their very own little personalities..

Each one of them are different, and have a different way they hold their eyes. They speak to me, and I can understand them. NOW IM NOT saying they talk like humans okay..

But they do speak, and try to get a point across. I even have cats like this too. I dont know why most of this stuff isnt a fact.

The question I have is why do groups of people say animals like these cant think for themselfs, whats up with all that?
Do these people not have pets?

ITs great information, but if you own pets, then you know whats going on.
Im the type of pet owner that takes good care of my animals. if they get sick take them to the vet right away. They are much like children to me.. And do cost alot of money sometimes.

But if you are going to have pets, you have to be stable enough to meet their needs.. They are living little creatures with hearts and souls.. They are part of the cycle in this universe somehow..

I think of many of my pets where my masters in another life, and we have changed places.. So I take care of them well to maybe in hopes in my next life, they will be my owners, and I get to be lazy all my life, and eat and go on long walks, and be loved my whole life no worries...

I love being able to be connected to another lifeforce in this life.. And understand that dogs are smarter than some people in this world

[edit on 6-12-2007 by zysin5]

reply to post by JbT


As far as vocalizing my cat is the same way. I usually say "hello" to him when he greets me at the door and he's been saying "hello" back. It's more like a "reh-roh" but the syllables are unmistakable. I know he doesn't understand the word, but the concept of a vocal greeting is nothing new to animals.

I don't get how they jump to "reason" in this study though. Isn't reasoning the act of drawing a conclusion based on evidence or observations? How is identifying a dog in one picture and another dog in another picture not just recognition which any creature is capable of?

I'm not sure what a good test of reasoning would be. Maybe have two identical boxes next to eachother with one having an opaque tunnel leading out of it. Then let the dog watch a chipmunk scurry into each box. If the dog consistently goes for the box without the tunnel, I suppose that would be reasoning.

reply to post by apc


You know what's pretty interesting is that only domestic cats, and cats in captivity "Meow." Some scientists say it's the cats purposely "vocalize" sounds that appear to be more relative to the way we constantly try to communicate our language with them. Wild cats in nature don't "meow," and stick to grunts, growls, and hisses to communicate with fellow cats.

I've also known this from a child. Animals are smart, and can adapt to the same environments that we can. Reason is a big part of "adapting," even if it's to a new home, family, whatever. Dogs are brilliant little creatures, and I'm happy we've been able to prove that.

See I'm not convinced this study holds any water. Unless some significant details are left out or I am completely failing to understand the implications of a dog recognizing another dog on a picture of a dog then I just don't see how this is reasoning.

I guess I'm still waiting to see an animal other than our fellow primates and maybe our finned cousins understand that pointing at something means look at what I'm pointing at, not at my finger. If someone can point at something and their dog understands, not just thinks they threw something, I will be impressed.

Originally posted by JbT
.

I talk to my dog, along with every one else in my family. H


We learn their way of communicating over time.

Another thing that I have found with my dog, is that from time to time, he will fall into a very very deep sleep where hes dreaming I assume. He has before moved his paws and other mild movements in this stage, but for the most part his eyes under his eyelids just move rapidly around. I assume that eye movement is REM sleep, or dreaming.

i too talk to my dog and he talks back...he has very distinct barks and yelps and i know what each one means...if there is someone on our side of the street it is a certain growl, across the street it is different still.

if he wants to go out he will go to his leash and pull it off the door knob and bring it to me.

my dog also does the deep dreaming.....he does this a LOT.
he will flutter his eyes and make little sounds and even move his legs/paws...
i always think he is dreaming of chasing rabbits.

dogs are very smart

something else my dog does is hop in front of one of his choice few favorite heater vents.....he will be laying on the couch and as soon as he hears the heat kick on, he hops off and goes and lays right in front of the heater.

dogs are smarter than people give em credit for...

look at police dogs and seeing eye dogs....that is some serious training right thuuur

My cat does the same thing. There's two vents he prefers over the rest. That however is just conditioning. Almost all animal training is just operant conditioning. They hear a trigger sound, and know if they go to a certain spot they will be rewarded with warmth.

reply to post by apc


i didn't train him to do that though...he does it on his own.

either way, it's not a big deal...he does it and i think it's cool.

he's a basset retriever and he's the shizz.

If a dog can distinguish between a dog and a landscape, isn't that just recognition? I believe dogs can reason, but it seems like search-and-rescue dogs would be better examples of it.