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Originally posted by NGC2736
reply to post by LordCarpainter
You use the word evidence, but posted nothing to support what you say is the real truth. Now I'm not saying anything one way or the other, but I would need more to go on before accepting this just because it says evidence in big bold letters at the start.
The Jokela school remained cordoned off by police and soldiers as people left candles nearby. The church where students waited for the attack to be over is open around the clock as a crisis center.
www.bloomberg.com...
Police lines have been drawn at a distance of about 100m from the school complex. Two Pasi armoured personnel carriers were spotted at a nearby fire station in Tuusula, which is 30 miles north of Helsinki.
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol...831665.ece
www.philly.com...
(The DA) ...revealed that Dillon Cossey and Finnish teen Pekka-Eric Auvinen had contacted each other about 25 times through Internet postings and instant messages, or IMs.
The police were called to the school at 11:43 a.m. local time. Officers were on the scene 11 minutes later and tried to talk to the gunman, who fired one shot at them without hitting anyone.
Rescue crews had to evacuate pupils and staff through the windows.
Searchers found the attacker injured just after 3 p.m., according to the Tuusula municipality Web site. The gunman and most of his victims were found in the lower lobby of the building, police said.
www.bloomberg.com...
Finland has the most guns per capita in Europe, a total of 1.8 million firearms outside of army use in a country of 5.3 million people, according to Amnesty International. That is the third-highest rate in the world after the U.S. and Yemen. Any adult can own a gun if it is registered with a shooting club.
www.bloomberg.com...
HELSINKI -- Students at the Finnish secondary school where a teenaged gunman last week killed eight people and then himself returned to class Monday, in another establishment and under police protection.
newsinfo.inquirer.net...
Zionists call for gun ban in Finland
judicial-inc.biz...&8_lone_high_school_gunman_kills_ei.htm
Originally posted by zerbot565
but what struck me the most after the incident was that the medical company that makes the anti deppresant had a huge campain that day going on and of at the radio , advertizing its cures for mankind , same company that make all thouse highschool shooters go mad , its something you cant deny
we in finland did not have Huge or large medical firms before we went in to afganistan , can only speculate at whats in em pills and whos benefitting from this ,
i my self would have take a truck load of manuver and dumped it in front of the parlament to show my discontent towards the world we live in
Was this what the eyewitnesses were reporting? It does not appear that racking up a high body count was his main goal.
Originally posted by zerbot565 ...he had apparently walked from class to classroom and told the pupils that they where free and that they could do anything.... ....dropping the clipp from his gun from time to time laughing hystericly
Originally posted by zerbot565there where rumor of 1-3 assasins but eventualy they only found one
Originally posted by PsykoOps
1) It's not uncommong for military police to help out the civillian ones in Finland. Even 'normal military' helps out sometimes, our police force isn't huge and sometimes it's necessary.
2) Nothing special about his picture being in the media so fast considering that it was all over the net at the time.
3) High kill-injure rate isn't that odd when he fired multiple shots at each victim. There was 1 gunshot victim that weren't 'finished off' with point blank headshot.
4) The police has access to Pasi vehicles too, those aren't necessarily military.
5) Police protection was because of media, no threat to the students afaik.
You covert op theory is on thin ice at best imho.
there where rumor of 1-3 assasins but eventualy they only found one
Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by LordCarpainter
Military doesn't respond to criminal incidents per se, they just help with things like isolating areas, search and rescue, traffic control etc.
I'm not surprised that the students were encouraged not to talk, the press are vultures. They were stalking the emergency help centers etc. after the incidents.
About the same time with other incidents that could just be coincidence.
Originally posted by PsykoOps
Those Finnish incidents came after the Jokela shooting so it's safe to assume they were copy cats just trying to get attention. Hard to speculate without any other solid link except the timing.
--Prior to 4-20-99
Chief of Police, McComb, Mississippi said a local trench coater--"carbon copy of Harris and Klebold"--"was doing planning"(of a school shooting?) Chief said the youth was in custody. "It is believed by the chief that there many be some connection."(21111)
-------------------------
--4-17-99
"West Metro Fire Investigator Dave Green advised Pomona High School students (Redacted) and (Redacted) arrested on April 17, 1999 with explosives. Also within past month (Redacted) contacted in early AM hours at Pomona High School in fatigues. Claimed to be on maneuvers..... There is no connection with this investigation."(17824)
Note: the "splatter punks", those three guys in black jackets and camo pants seen on national TV being arrested in Clement Park(next to CHS) were initially accused of a planned attack on Pomona High School(same school district as CHS) "based on numerous tips the police received". A 'phony" bomb threat would cause Pomona HS to be evacuated about a week later.
-------------------------
--4-19-99
There was a probable planned attack with many similarities to Columbine in far-off Evans High School in Georgia. The Columbia County Seriff's Department in Appling, Georgia questioned two students(Michael Buckner, 15, and an unk youth) on April 19, 1999(the day before Columbine) regarding death threats they reportedly had made at Evans High. Police seized guns at both boys homes as well as computers, and "Excalibur and Samurai-type swords". They both were believed to practice some type of witchcraft, and they participated in LARP war games. They wore trench coats over their all-black outfits with combat boots. [Note that all of these characteristics were shared with the TCM in Colorado.]
The Georgia authorities said there was no connection to the events in Colorado, which was "contrary to many news reports fueled by roumor, that are currently circulating throughout the region." Early local media reports, however, said the two groups were in internet contact or were visiting the same web site.
[FBI Report on Columbine, pg 8]
----------------------
--4-19-99
Employee at Stein Elementary School got voice mail message on 4-19 that she saved for the cops:
"Yes, I'm one of the trench coat robbers, so you idiots and(sic) if you don't give up $10million we're going to kill everybody in the school. You have my warning."
The Stein Elementary Security Office says "It is believed to be young children."
(17977)
---------------------------
--7:30am on 4-20-99
Bomb found at Highlands Ranch High School(neighboring Douglas County)(7962)
"The sheriff's office also made two arrests in connection with a bomb hoax April 20 at Highlands Park Ranch School.
"Four days after the incident, the sheriff's office charged Ben A. Bennett, 18, and Jonathan Reich, 18, with the possession, use or removal of explosives or incendiary devices--a felony.
"One teen is a student at the high school and the other is a former classmate....
"As new of the shootings at Columbine High School began to spread, rumors began to circulate that the fake bomb was in fact legitimate.
"The bomb was not real" Deputy Kim Stuckenschneider of the sheriff's office said. "It just happened at the wrong time. That had absolutely no connection whatsoever with Columbine. It's just a rumor."
[Douglas County News Press, 4-22-99]
Cops said it was a "hoax".
==========
--11:15am on 4-20
Columbine Massacre begins
==========
--At 1:30pm on 4-20
A gun with ammo is found in the trunk of a student's car at Kiowa High School(Denver metro area). The owner, 17, tried to run away. Cops also said he may have threatened others, and that he vowed revenge.
[DP.com 4-22, see "How tragedy unfolded"]
----------------------
--8:50pm on 4-20
A theft of four handguns occurs from the Jumbo Sports Store in the town of Lone Tree in Douglas County using smash-and-grab techniques. Arrested later was 18yr old Joel David Freiboth, ex-CHS student at 7700 South Garrison Street and an unidentified 17yr old in the 5800 block of South Garland Way. Four handguns were recovered.
"...the suspects do live in the area and have ties to Columbine High School" according to the Douglas County Sheriff's spokesperson.
"No motive has been established, but one possibility is that they were arming themselves because they were scared and wanted to protect themselves.
"With Freiboth was a 14yr old boy, a student at Columbine who claimed to be a witness to the shooting, authorities said."
[DP.com(DenverPost online) for 4-22-99. Header: "Two CHS students arrested"]
Cops implied it was a "hoax".
------------------------------------
--4-21
In Colorado Springs(70 miles south of Denver), one Shannon Waltz and three other teenagers dressed "as gothics in black trench coats and masks were charged with trespassing after a disturbance wedesday afternoon at Coronado High School." Another report had them armed with 'firecrackers'. Three were students at another high school and one was a dropout.
[DP.com for 4-22, see "Notes from somber days"]
Cops said it was a "hoax".
-------------------------
--4-21 Shutdown of Kennedy High
Manager of a 7-11 near Kennedy High School, she sees 3 males, including one wearing TC(tall, slender, long blonde hair, shoulder length) enter her store at 1:55pm on 4-20, acting 'strange' and 'nervous'. They deny any knowledge of what's going on at CHS. Dana Baylis(8912)
Manager of 7/11 at South Wadsworth and Yukon has video of TCMers from Kennedy High wearing trenchcoats on 4-20-99. Other kids say there will be an incident at Kennedy High on 4-21-99.(19680)
"A 'potential link' to students responsible for the massacre at Columbine High School triggered the shutdown Wedesday(4-21) of Denver's Kennedy High School .... the boundaries of the two schools are adjacent.... However, they said it wasn't a bomb or bomb threat that prompted the school's closure, along with the closure of all ten Denver high schools....denver Lt. Frank Conner said Kennedy was closed primarily because of its proximity to Columbine."--Denver Post, 4-22-99
Kennedy High School student Aaron Ratliff's journal entry dated 2-22- titled "56 days to classified information". (56 days after 2-22 is 4-20-99) He said it referred to pot smoking.--(17854)
-A 15-year-old Kennedy High School freshman was arrested(5-14-99) for allegedly threatening to kill classmates and a teacher and blow up the Denver school. † The youth allegedly told two students about detailed plans to handcuff those on a hit list to desks and "blow their hands off or shoot them in the head," police said. "He also said he was going to go in the hallways and start shooting other students. He said it was going to be Columbine all over again."
---------------------
--4-22-99
Chesterfield, VA, VirginiaRichmond Times-Dispatch, 4/23/99
Two Manchester High School students were charged yesterday with conspiracy offenses in an alleged scheme to manufacture explosive devices and detonate them inside the 2,400-student school with the intent "to kill more than one person." The students, ages 14 and 15, each were charged with conspiracy to manufacture explosive devices and conspiracy to commit capital murder. They're charged with conspiracy to commit capital murder and manufacture explosive devices. Chesterfield County Police said the stolen key and alleged bombing scheme at Manchester High School were not intended to copy the Colorado crimes, instead, the two teens charged were making plans to manufacture bombs long before the Littleton massacre.
--------------------
4-22-99
R.E. Lee High School, Staunton, Virginia, Richmond Times-Dispatch of 4/24/99
Police arrested a 14-year-old high school student Thursday on a bomb-
making charge after a tipster alerted them to an apparent parallel
with the deadly Colorado school shooting. Prompted by news reports
of the Littleton, Colo., massacre, someone in the Staunton area directed authorities to a Web page the local teen allegedly had set up, the city prosecutor said.
R.E. Lee High School shut down for two days in Staunton, VA area because a student had threatened bombing. He was arrested after a home search turned up a pipe bomb and a floor plan for the school. After the arrest, the rumors were so wild that the school was shut down while it was searched.
From: rwt60 (emailname) *
04/30/99 10:03:12 PDT
[Although the arrest occured on 4-22, the fact that the suspect had a website setup may indicate it was created before 4-20. And what was the "apparent parallel" with Columbine?]
------------------------
Petersburg, Newport News, and Culpeper, VARichmond Times-Dispatch, 4/24/99
Students have been arrested on a variety of charges in Petersburg,
Newport News and Culpeper in the wake of the deadly shooting in
Colorado that has focused attention on school safety.
-freerepublic
Five students arrested in Richmond VA and charged with conspiracy for contemplating a Columbine style attack.
From: rwt60 (emailname) *
04/30/99 10:03:12 PDT
In the Richmond, Virginia, area, at least 13 students have been arrested in recent days for making various threats. One police official said: "I've never seen anything that's quite taken on the hysteria that this has. Rumors are just feeding on themselves ..."
--------------------------
--4-25-99
"Two 16-year old males were arrested Thursday(4-22-99) for making bomb threats to Douglas County High School(on 4-21) in Castle Rock(Colorado), according to county officials. They claimed to be members of the Trench Coat Mafia, officials said."(Denver Post, 4-25-99 and FBI-1619)
"Someone called the school about 11am Wedesday and stated: "This is the Trench Coat Mafia and there is a bomb in the building; detonation time three minutes." Investigators got tips from numerous parents and students implicating two boys, a student and a former student, Stuckenschneider said. They were charged Thursday with making false reports of explosives and conspiracy, which are both felonies,...."
"The reason we're pushing so hard for felony coviction on this is so we won't get so many hoaxes," Stuckenschneider said."(Denver Post 4-23-99 and FBI-1619)
Cops think it was a "hoax".
----------------------
--4-27-99(or before)
"Student found with pipe bomb at Dakota Ridge High School"(18665). Same student arrested a couple of weeks later.
Also,
--Shane Neuhouse "provided information on (Redacted's) criminal activity and (his)plans to attack Englewood High School."(21154)
---------------------
-4-30-99
Faye "Rae" Holt, 34, of Westminster(Colorado), the mother of a former Pomona High School student, was arrested(4-30-99) on false reporting and felony menacing charges for bomb scare that forced the evacuation of the school. She is suspected of calling the school on 4-28-99, claiming there were bombs in backpacks and saying "There goes your students. There goes your school. This is not a Joke."
Witness accounts led police to Holt, Arvada police spokeswoman Susan Rossi said.
The task force investigating the Columbine shootings was called in to determine if the threat was connected to the events at Columbine, but police have discounted that, Rossi said. Authorities believe she was just unhappy with the school.
"She had ongoing dealings with the school ... and felt her son did not get treated fairly,'' District Attorney Dave Thomas said.
[I wonder if the name of her kid was Nalty, Akard, or Brunetti]
-----------------------
--1-1-01
Rampart Range- Proving ground for teen killers? Unless there's another Rampart Range in the Denver area, this shooting range was also used by another group of Colorado teen killers- the "Operation and Reconnaissance Agents" who in Jan 1, 2001 killed three people in rural Park County. The three teens involved were students at Palmer High School in Colorado Springs, and reportedly used the range to test automatic weapons. This case has many interesting parallels to the Columbine shootings: satanism, study of military tactics, accusations of mind control, a charismatic leader, facsination with knives and swords, etc, etc.
I wonder if they closed the range to prevent it from becoming some kind of tourist attraction to conspiracy theorists.
=================
From the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office Final Report-"Findings of the Threats Team"-we read
"IMMEDIATELY after the shooting on April 20, the command post received NUMEROUS reports of additional attacks that were to occur at other schools in the metro area as well as schools outside the state."(emphasis mine)
Based upon the sheer number of these incidents happening on or very near to 4-20, I'd have to say there is a probable connection--and that what was being planned was far more horrific than what actually happened.
Originally posted by zerbot565
no logic in his actions ,
as for a good shot , lol , 8 ppl dead 1 injured , more then 69 rounds fired , thats more then half a clip for each person he shot ,
talk about panic, putting 5 round in a person only to see em still alive ,
he had apparently walked from class to classroom and told the pupils that they where free and that they could do anything
dropping the clipp from his gun from time to time laughing hystericly ,
sound like he was just as scared as them on the other side of the barrel ,
Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by Hobbymat
We cant really speculate how well he did his reloading etc. since were not witnesses. He wasn't a 'normal schoolboy' to beging with.
I'm not surprised that he wasn't interview when getting his gun. If that's the case to beging with. None of the people I know who have guns have been interviewed afaik.
LordCarpainter: you can assume what you desire, but without any solid evidence I'd advice against that