Please stop with the crazy claims!

its obvious the american government played the vital role. my favorite bit of "proof" dug up was on the loose change documentary where upon dudes research found paper work of a plan just like the 9/11 attacks, but set up for Cuba during the missle crises, but after their problems were resolved the Bush admin brought those plans back and changed up the location of attack and went at it to gain national support..

lol how about this one for kicks....osama is the reincarnation of jesus, but of course he is the most dangerous terrorist in the world...plus he doesnt fit the christian description..think about that instead of 9/11

Firstly, let me make this clear I KNoW THAT HOLOGRAMS EXIST, as do most people, and also i know that there probilly was a conspirisy behind the 911 attacks. I wouldn't even mind if someone posted a theory that sounded insane, AS LONG AS THEY HAD EVIDENCE!

Wow, i just saw some of those plane shots and they might not be boeings'
although i suppose the are from a different angle than you ausally see them

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
So please don't try and lecture me about planes when you don't even know the basics.

BTW, prove to me the planes were going over 500mph.

Oh i know the basics, i have a background in aviation. I was a crew chief in the Air Force.

Well lets look at Flight 77.

en.wikipedia.org...

As the aircraft hurtled towards the Pentagon at 530 miles per hour,[3] it clipped several street lampposts .

And some follow up information.

(1) Now what kind of a hijacker would bother to reset his altimeter EXACTLY at FL180? What for? He's going to crash!

(2) Where did that hijacker get the field barometric pressure for Reagan International that he set on his altimeter? He didn't get it from ATC. And how did he get the CURRENT field barometric pressure (30.24) which would have been only several minutes old?

(3) Why did the hijacker reset the copilots altimeter within one second of setting his and WHY? And HOW? That’s a pretty long reach!

(4) How did the hijacker get so proficient in the use of the autopilot? From a book?

(5) And about that final line up with the Pentagon. After the 270 degree turn descending turn. Within 1 degree? That’s absolutely amazing!

Hi ULTIMA1

I read through the whole thread but seem to have missed something here.

Why do you assume, or how do you know that Hani Hanjour re-set the altimeter, and used the autopilot? Where is your evidence for any of this? Of course, being a qualified commercial pilot with >200 hours in the logbook and plenty of sim time on the 757, he would have been quite capable of doing it, but where is the evidence that he did? I can't see why he would bother.

The only known communications from the aircraft following the hijack were from Renee May, the flight attendant who called her mother, and from Nancy Olsen who called her husband, US Solicitor General Theodore Olson, twice. None of these conversations to my knowledge made any reference to re-setting altimeters or to the hijacking pilot being concerned with barometric pressures.

Since the origin of AA#77 was Dulles and its destination was LA I would think it would be safe to assume that Burlingame & Charlebois did this prior to being overpowered and murdered by the muscle hijackers (probably Moqed & the al Hazmi bros.). Why is this in any way not credible?

I am JAA-PPL qualified by the way, with >100 hours in the logbook, so obviously don't buy into any uninformed cr*p about 'a plane can't do that' or 'you can't pilot a plane into a building under cockpit control'. Of course you can.

If you have any doubts, study the Kamikaze. They were less well trained, were aiming at small moving horizontal targets taking violent evasive action on the sea and being shot at by hundreds of AA guns of various calibers. And yes, the Jap aircraft of the time dived at >400kts @45deg & the Ohka rocket planes dived at >600kts. Result? >200 US Navy ships struck, many by multiple Kamikaze, and >30 destroyed or sunk.

Hitting the Pentagon with a 757 is easy compared to that, believe me. Assuming murderous and suicidal intent, and enough planning and preparation. So don't insult my intelligence, as an experienced pilot, by saying it 'can't be done'. I KNOW it can be done. I could do it, were I so inclined, so could most pilots - if so inclined.

I feel that planes hit the towers. The 9/11 commission was somewhat like the Warren commission. They omitted evidence and testimony, altered facts, covered up material . But why?
What was this all for? I don't get it. What goal(s) was accomplished? Who's idea was all this tragic nonsense. What did all those people die for?

I would laugh if GOD suddenly appeared to all and announced the universe and everything in it is simply a illusionary hologram.

Of course common sense and reasoning is important when trying to decipher the truth, but it also doesn't hurt to think outside the box. In this crazy universe you can't afford to take anything for granted. I personally dont believe the no plane theory but I'm not going to completely rule it out simply because it sounds ridiculous and doesn't make sense to some people. If you believe the alien conspiracies that some secret cabal within the US Government has been back engineering technology for the last 50 years. Then who knows what technology they have now and what they are truly capable of. Whose to say we are not being manipulated by outside force who have technology that is millions of years ahead of our own. Obviously people assume it's all ridiculous simply because there is no definitive proof, but what if?

Originally posted by bovarcher
Hitting the Pentagon with a 757 is easy compared to that, believe me. Assuming murderous and suicidal intent, and enough planning and preparation. So don't insult my intelligence, as an experienced pilot, by saying it 'can't be done'. I KNOW it can be done. I could do it, were I so inclined, so could most pilots - if so inclined.

I filed a FOIA request to NTSB and received the data from the Flight Data Recorder for Flight 77, thats my resource for the information.

So tell me then if your qualified, could you make the turn before the Pentagon (Without any corrections in the turn) and come out directly lined up with the small Pentagon building? Because most pilots i have talked to said it would hard for them even with thousands of hours of flight time.

Maybe you should check out the following website.
www.pilotsfor911truth.com...


[edit on 11-11-2007 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by johnlear


Holographs do exist however they cannot be projected in broad daylight I'm afraid.

Projectors can't even illuminate a white sheet of FABRIC in a well lit room, let alone illuminating translucent substances such as AIR against BROAD DAYLIGHT.


So far Holographs have only been achievable under very strict lab conditions I'm afraid.


Of course, being intelligent people, you will look at evidence, and weigh up evidence.
And currently there is more evidence to suggest that something physical (E.g. A Plane) hit the towers, over holographs.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
John, I hate to disappoint you and your new found hologram theory but I have a good friend who lives in NY and worked for the port authority that day and was one block from the buildings when they collapsed. They were real planes and some of the engines parts were found on the ground in bad shape. My friend lost many very good friends that day, He still today is traumatized from the crap he seen that day so you and others do this nation a dis-service by making these ridiculous claims about the planes hitting the trade center. That we do know did happen. We know that the whole trade center complex sat on the same foundation. When the two towers collapsed it blew out most of the supports for building 7 and thats why it came down.
I believe the op made this post right after some clown made a post about hydrogen bombs taking down the towers. That by far is the most ridiculous post I have seen yet and yes I'm also tired of crap like that discrediting ATS. Hey thats sounds just like your trees on the moon theory!!!!!

You my friend are full of # in your brain to think that wtc came down because its support was damaged by the WTC 1 and 2 . WHATEVER HAPPENED to wtc 5,6 who were located right beneath the wtc 1, 2 ??? WAIT they never collapse but they were demolished afterwards with Controlled Demolition because they had sustain to much damage BUT they were still standing. OPEN YOUR HEAD TO MORE THAN JUST BRAINWASH????

[edit on 11-11-2007 by xxghostsxx]

Originally posted by bovarcher

Why do you assume, or how do you know that Hani Hanjour re-set the altimeter, and used the autopilot? Where is your evidence for any of this?

Thanks for the post bovrcher. You can download the Flight Data Recorder tabular data from American Airlines Flight #77 anywhere on the web.

The Flight Data Recorder records 156 channels of information at the rate of 8 times per second. It is from this data that we know when and how Hani reset his altimeter and how and when and to what mode the aujtopilot was set.

But the questions is not whether he reset it our not. The question is where did he get the information? He was not talking to ATC. ATC didn't even know where he was. He was 150 miles from Ronald Reagan International so he wouldn't have been able to receive tower transmission and how would he know the tower frequency anyway?

Any why did he set the copilots altimeter first?

You can download the FDR tabular data yourself but then, of course, you will have to learn how to read it.

The only known communications from the aircraft following the hijack were from Renee May, the flight attendant who called her mother, and from Nancy Olsen who called her husband, US Solicitor General Theodore Olson, twice. None of these conversations to my knowledge made any reference to re-setting altimeters or to the hijacking pilot being concerned with barometric pressures.

These phone calls have been debunked. None were made. You need to download the Flight Data Recorder tabular data to find out how and when Hani allegedly made the altimeter changes. The information was not obtained by telephone. It was obtained by the Flight Data Recorder.

I am JAA-PPL qualified by the way, with >100 hours in the logbook, so obviously don't buy into any uninformed cr*p about 'a plane can't do that' or 'you can't pilot a plane into a building under cockpit control'. Of course you can.

Let me respectfully suggest that 100 hours in your logbook and a JAA-PPL qualification wouldn't allow you to speculate on the price of bubble-gum in China.

Hitting the Pentagon with a 757 is easy compared to that, believe me. Assuming murderous and suicidal intent, and enough planning and preparation. So don't insult my intelligence, as an experienced pilot, by saying it 'can't be done'. I KNOW it can be done. I could do it, were I so inclined, so could most pilots - if so inclined.

Let me respectfully insult your experience then. 100 hours is not 'experienced'. 500 hours is not 'experienced'. 1000 hours is not 'experienced'. 5000 hours is 'mildly experienced'. 10,000 is 'experienced'. With '100' you don't know 'it can be done'.

Please come back with 500 hours in a Boeing 767 and then tell me whether or not it can be done. But not with 100 hours. With a hundred hours you can barely hit the earth when the engine quits much less hit a target 208 feet wide at 500 knots.

100 hours? Experienced? You need to go on David Letterman with that story.

Thanks for the post.

I heard that planes had crashed into the Twin Towers. I thought it was very bad that so many civilians had been killed. But afterwards I was told it was America's own government that had arranged the attack." How could that have happened? "Money can make wonders." But why would America have wanted to do such a thing? "There is a strong lobby in the USA that opposes President Bush. He wanted to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. He had to justify that to his own people.

Shakeel Ahmad Bhat is the product of poverty, lack of opportunity and state brutality. Islam is to him a way of life. He is illiterate and his only source of news is the street. Surrounded by other people who lack knowledge of the outside world, is it any surprise that he believes barmy conspiracy theories about the attacks of 9/11?

www.dailymail.co.uk...

While you folks are all floating your theories here about what happened on September 11th, ill educated extremists in Islamic countries aren't just sitting theorising with you behind the relative anonymity of the internet. They're acting on these theories in real life and events are being shaped by the things they say and the things they do.

This guy is just one of thousands who believes September 11th was an inside job. Not because he's directly seen it on ATS or any other conspiracy theory site - chances are he & his sympathisers don't even have access to a regular electricity supply or clean running water, let alone the internet. But by the time these theories get filtered down to his level, by word of mouth from city to town to village they've become a twisted parody of the truth.

Some of you need to get a grip, forego the self indulgence and cease with some of the wackier theorising. Because in your own small way you're making the world a more dangerous place.

Originally posted by kindred
I would laugh if GOD suddenly appeared to all and announced the universe and everything in it is simply a illusionary hologram.

Someone would just start a new thread on ATS to say it wasn't really God but a hologram

And I agree with everything you said. Everyone should keep an open mind to all possibilities, but no-one should hang their hat on a single theory and refuse to be moved from it no matter what. Closing your mind to the fact that you may, just may, be wrong frustrates me.

Too often I see people plugging what they believe ad nauseum. They don't listen to arguments let alone counter them, these people avoid tough questions and sometimes getting any kind of evidence out of them is impossible. Those specific individuals have less than zero interest in the truth, they just want to be right. And that goes for all sides of a lot of debates on here.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by open mind

I know that somethings are a bit fishy about 911 and events surrounding it but come on! some of the claims that people make a just so stupid, the worst was the no planes theory, how could you have a hologram in broad daylight!

Thanks for the post open mind. Although I know it seems far fetched but the fact is that there were no planes crashed on 911 either into the WTC or the Pentagon or the field in Shanksville.

It was a PsyOp. An illusion. Like something you would see in Las Vegas but on a much larger scale.

Holographs, while seeming not possible to the average guy, are in fact, possible, real, and used to make people believe that 2 Boeing 767's crashed into the WTC.

That people don't believe holographs exist and in fact believe that 2 airliners crashed into the World Trade Center is a measure of their absolute and unqualified success.

Your question of how holographs could be projected in broad daylight is a good one. I don't know how it is accomplished but then I am not qualified in that field and all I know is that the results have been spectacular.

Last Thursday night I had dinner with a scientist friend of mine who told me that holographs can not only project an image, but heat and sound as well.

So while you propose the idea that holographs and the no planes theory is 'stupid' there are those that not only know it was real but know exactly how it was technically possible.

Many thanks for your thread.

Here we go again. Mr. Lear, you have been proposing this "theory" and I use that term VERY loosely, for many months and have posted ZERO evidence to back up your claim. Finally, last Thursday, you had dinner with a friend who explained the whole thing. Great, so what did he/she say ? The person explained how it's all possible last Thursday but to date, you have not posted that information that may actually finally answer some questions. So lets hear it !
And once again, I have mentioned that there are 2 very big technological barriers that would need to be addressed for the hologram to work as needed. Of course, you friend would have mentioned these 2 things so again, what did they say???

Hello John

Originally posted by johnlear

Thanks for the post bovrcher. You can download the Flight Data Recorder tabular data from American Airlines Flight #77 anywhere on the web

The Flight Data Recorder records 156 channels of information at the rate of 8 times per second. It is from this data that we know when and how Hani reset his altimeter and how and when and to what mode the aujtopilot was set.

But the questions is not whether he reset it our not. The question is where did he get the information? ...and how would he know the tower frequency anyway?

Any why did he set the copilots altimeter first?

Thanks John, I'll look it up and get back to you. There are obviously gaps in my understanding of this case. One thing you could clarify for me - do you consider the flight recorder information as released to be genuine or not?

You can download the FDR tabular data yourself but then, of course, you will have to learn how to read it.

Yes, right. I will need some help with that, but should be able to find that locally.


In-flight calls 'debunked' by whom? Sorry I have not spoken to Renee May's mother, nor to Theodore Olson. Is he on record as saying his wife never called him? Surely this would be easy to establish, and it's important.

Let me respectfully suggest that 100 hours in your logbook and a JAA-PPL qualification wouldn't allow you to speculate on the price of bubble-gum in China

Why would I care about the price of bubble gum in China? It's about RMB0.32/packet in Guangzhou, by the way. (This is not speculation. Check it out.)

Let me respectfully insult your experience then. 100 hours is not 'experienced'. 500 hours is not 'experienced'. 1000 hours is not 'experienced'. 5000 hours is 'mildly experienced'. 10,000 is 'experienced'.

OK, I know you have a lot (thousands?) of hours in the logbook, accumulated over many years on a great range of aircraft types. This does not, though, necessarily make you an infallible authority on everything else (respectfully). You cannot deny - or do you? - that Kamikaze sank more than 30x US warships at Okinawa, and the circumstances in which that feat was accomplished dwarfs the challenge of hitting a fixed building with an airliner, when you're NOT being shot at by AA.

You could help me out with one more thing: the speed of the aircraft in question. How, and by what precise criteria, is this known with such certainty?

Thanks for the post.

Always a pleasure. I like to think I remain genuinely open minded, and you may prove to be right. I do not have an agenda, and don't accept anybody's 'version' - not even yours.

I'll get back to you.

Jhon with all due respect, you are starting to get on my nerves, you are not always right no-one is. you say things as a fact simply because you said them. You are not god

Originally posted by bovarcher
You could help me out with one more thing: the speed of the aircraft in question. How, and by what precise criteria, is this known with such certainty?

Well there is the Flight Data Recorder for the main source. Also radar tracking.

I doubt if your call "Please stop with the crazy claims" is going to stop anyone stating his opinion. Whats the point?

reply to post by citizen truth

You'll have a hard time debating folks here if you can't back up what you state.

Well, there is NO backing up the hologram theory, the hydrogen theory, the Government did it theory etc etc ... So YOU have a hard time telling US that the theories are within reason ..

Originally posted by johnlear

These phone calls have been debunked. None were made. You need to download the Flight Data Recorder tabular data to find out how and when Hani allegedly made the altimeter changes. The information was not obtained by telephone. It was obtained by the Flight Data Recorder.

One simple question ... Where are the information about this debunking ? If you dont have it, then we all just assume you made that up.

[edit on 11-11-2007 by tep200377]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I doubt if your call "Please stop with the crazy claims" is going to stop anyone stating his opinion. Whats the point?

I think the idea is not to stop people from posting OPINIONS when stated as OPINION but rather get them to stop posting OPINION as FACT. When someone irresponsibly posts an OPINION as a FACT, it spreads incorrect information and dilutes what is happening throughout the thread(s).