Perfection, Human Morality, Love

Perfection is found everywhere. In the cold blooded murder of an infant and in the morning song of birds waking to the cresting sun. It is found in chaos and also in peace. Perfection is found in stealing, yelling, mishaps and broken hearts, in whispers, in giving, in met expectations and eternal love. Everything existence is of, is of perfection.

Human morality on the other hand tells us what hurts and what feels good. We like to be hugged and comforted, or we like to be spanked and tied up. We like to be loved and honored, or we like to be punished and abused. We enjoy caring and giving, or we enjoy apathy and receiving. No matter what we enjoy the key is to treat other people how they'd like to be treated, live and let live, and be honest. Is that so hard to do? If you can do those things you can freely indulge in anything that you want. We are all entitled to our preferences, just remember to be honest and truthfull, to treat another as they would like to be treated, and of course to not murder! If you can do these things... then surely you will find a lasting love within yourself and within another. Remember to honor your body and your mind through keeping them in fair condition, as it is what they desire and is what they are for, not doing such will have you leading a life of depression and desparity. Honor the body through excercise, and the mind through excercise.

I needed to get that out for a while now... perfection and Human morality... a subject that needs to be cleared up. Perfection is not an expectation that is precisely met, it is what everything already is without expectation. Outside of Human morality is found perfection. The floating of a feather in the wind, or the breaking of a glass... both perfection. But through honoring Human morality... we can feel a sense of that perfection through peace and serenity, pleasure and comfort, freedom and ecstacy.

Just Love Each Other Because There Is Nothing Absolute?


If you tell another to stop being judgemental, in doing so you have just become judgemental yourself.

If you demand another to be free, in doing so you have just taken away that person's ability to freely choose and recognize their own freedom.

But, if you are not allowed to tell another to stop being judgemental and not allowed to demand another to be free then you have just limited your own freedom of what you can do.

What happened to all the replies to this thread?

they've all gone :S

Anyway yes, as my reply was going along the lines of

''perfection is not an expectation that is precisely met, it is what everything already is without expectation.'' - OP

Which leads me to believe there is no such thing as actual Perfection, just what individuals may expect or perceive as perfection. For example, a deep fried cucumber could be considered perfection in China, but in the UK, people would probably gag at the idea.

What you have to understand is that perfection was a word that was created to relate to a human's ideal, not an actual factual state of an object.
For example, to say 'Black is not White' is correct, but to say 'White is perfection' is to say that the human likes white, or likes the particular state of white that the shade of white is in, for example, they may be looking at pure white, with no hints of any other tones.

however it is also possible to say that 'Cream is perfection' however, clearly this cannot be perfection at the same time as white, as Cream is essentially off-white.

Human Morality is similar, while there is such a thing as 'basic' morality, I believe human morality has evolved beyond what was biologically encoded into our instincts to adapt to all the bizarre information we have to encounter on a daily basis.
The truth is, no one can claim any morality, as nobody IS moral, not even myself, and I claim none and judging by the bible, even god is not a perfectly moral being (Flame me for that if you wish, I'm immoral, so I don't care lol). If there is such a thing as morals... I believe that the basic moral is 'Don't harm others'. however we have adapted it into so many wild and crazy forms, that it is beginning to lose its own meaning.

Religious types class many acts as abuse, that seem to do relativly no harm to anybody other than their own morals, yet, they will be the first to tell you that people should not judge, and that judgine alone is reserved for god... if such a creature exists.

Even Animals, often show some BASIC signs of Morals, such as, not killing their own family - Merecats are a good example, they seem to live a family life, not too dissimilar from our own . (There are of course, exceptions and naturally violent animals as there are people)

In-fact I'd be willing to garner that some animals have a better grasp of how to effectively work as a species than we do as humans.


Humans seem to spend too much time trying to palce themselves above other biological entities because of our IQ's.
However it is well known, that with higher cognitive capability, comes higher risk of mental problems and delusions, which I believe may be the actual cause for a lot of perceived perfections and imperfections.


Perfection itself is not merely expectation, however, it could in theory relate to execution. if I aimed to just jump over a wall, but actually jumped over the wall high enough to jump over a wall 3 times the same height. You could consider that perfection, or imperfection, as perhaps jumping to high was not ideal, yet I cleared the wall in a most excessive fashion.
this is where we reach the point of humans all being mildly 'OCD'. Which is pretty much a given with Higher IQs.



I think the key way to rid yourself of the 'problems' associated with morality, and perfection. Is to remove your frontal lobe.

[edit on 4-11-2007 by Chowzor]

[edit on 4-11-2007 by Chowzor]

Be carefull with your frontal lobe there... you don't want to harm your central sulcus. I'd hire a neuro surgeon with a hefty resume if you don't want your precentral gyrus getting sliced up. And afterwards I'd sit in a room like a vegetable... enjoying the bliss of retardation. And don't forget about any damage that could be possibly done to your temporal lobe, (don't wanna go entotically quiet) or your perietal lobe... you might just find yourself numb and dumb. That's not what I'm asking for!

I am not looking to exhume my motor skills by direct result of frontal lobotomy, I am merely saying that since we have a frontal lobe, since we have the capability to understand and we can not ever or currently rid ourselves of this "problem", then we must learn to love and treat others as they would like to be treated. Don't harm others, positive. We can intellectually pick each other apart for philisophical dominance all day long, but we'll never get anywhere healthy. We've found that we can go in circles for eternity. If the intention of dominance or looking for wrongs is at the forefront of a relationship with another, whether it be Human, animal, or plant, OR other... we will only get so far. If our intention is of love, a basis of neutrality... learning and giving through equality... studying the world around us and not trying to attain stature over those around us... then we will find peace of mind... we will create technologies that will have the brightness of the stars pale in comparison to their wonders, we will achieve our imaginations, but this can only be attained through love.

[edit on 4-11-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Your topic seems to be dropping down the list.
Add some amazing evidence of shape shifting reptiles from youtube.

that'll get them going

Originally posted by Chowzor
Humans seem to spend too much time trying to palce themselves above other biological entities because of our IQ's.
However it is well known, that with higher cognitive capability, comes higher risk of mental problems and delusions, which I believe may be the actual cause for a lot of perceived perfections and imperfections.

I agree, I learned Love from someone with half my intelligence, yet the lesson I learned was far more valuable then any other I could learn.

Everytime I feel I have reached perfection, I have to go all the way back to the beginning of the journey and realize I utterly failed in modesty and humility

-Redge777

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
then we must learn to love and treat others as they would like to be treated. Don't harm others, positive. We can intellectually pick each other apart for philosophical dominance all day long, but we'll never get anywhere healthy. We've found that we can go in circles for eternity. If the intention of dominance or looking for wrongs is at the forefront of a relationship with another, whether it be Human, animal, or plant, OR other... we will only get so far.

Treating others as they want to be treated is OK, if what they want matches your moral beliefs. It is not loving to give a weapon to a person who is evil and wants to use it for evil, even if that is what the person wants from you.

It is also not loving if one person berates 10 others and you do not step in with love, and without being judgemental try to bring the conversation away from the darkness back into the light.

Someone who request secrecy to do evil, should also not be honored, it is through love sometimes that you, do not do what a person wants, that love helps them grow, and helps you grow too. I agree with honesty, if you are honest with yourself and others then your agendas and motives will be open, and people will not be deceived by false pretences.

Picking apart is wrong, learning from, and sometimes even sharing ones own knowledge with all should be the goal, however often it is not.

If our intention is of love, a basis of neutrality... learning and giving through equality... studying the world around us and not trying to attain stature over those around us...

Love being a neutrality as all are equal, or more like all have there own strengths and weakness we must strive to learn from I agree. Attaining stature should not be a goal, we are in agreement. Studying is good also, but what use is knowledge if not put to good use and shared?

To the other poster
I would guess that the comment about missing post is to get people thinking censorship is occurring.

Originally posted by Chowzor
''perfection is not an expectation that is precisely met, it is what everything already is without expectation.'' - OP

when you think of perfection through perception you ignore a great deal of possibility by simply keeping a person ignorant of their potential. It becomes possible to argue keeping people stupid makes for a legitimate way of helping them. Either you help the situation, or make them expect less, both achieve satisfaction, only helping actually allows a person to reach there potential.

'Don't harm others'.

also "Don't through willful ignorance or inaction allow another to come to harm"

Even Animals, often show some BASIC signs of Morals,

I saw a pair of elephants a mother and sister stand by a newborn when it was having trouble walking, you could see the caring and love, it was the most moving thing I have seen in the animal kingdom.

I think the key way to rid yourself of the 'problems' associated with morality, and perfection. Is to remove your frontal lobe.

This method is currently being used world wide by the media and pharmaceutical companies, keeping people from thinking is a way to control them and not have to justify all of the actions done in their name.

-Redge777

Thank you for your replies. It is all agreed with. Very knowledgable information.

I did a search and found some articles on laws for robots. I tweaked them to fit rules for Humanity. See if you can find any faults.

1. A Human Being may not purposefully injure another animal (including other Humans) or, through inaction, allow another animal to willfully come to harm either psychologically, physically, or otherwise through means other than a natural uncontrollable cycle or for self survival in times of desparity.

2. A Human Being must respect desires given to them by other Human Beings within mental and physical capacity to do so except where such desires would conflict with the First Law.

3. A Human Being must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Hi Last (my fingers are lazy),

Haven't you just added a lot of verbage to, "The Golden Rule?"

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?"

No. And now days don't you know that gold has lost its worth? It's just paper with numbers on it, quickly tearing trees from their roots for our spending pleasure It's do unto others as they would have done unto them. That's a very self centered and narcissistic philosophy to be only treating others how you think you should be treated. What of those that enjoy things like torture and pain in contrast to those that enjoy flowers and massages?

[edit on 5-11-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Last,

Thanks for your reply. I disagree with you somewhat. I do believe that the paper currency in the US, at least has not been backed by silver or gold for some time. That is why it's wothless!

As far as my being selfish with my thoughts on "The Golden Rule," I have a solution. I stay away from people who do the other things you described. To each his own is how I approach that one.

You get what you ask for in life, and if those sorts of things are what you want, go for it. People that are negative, attract negativity. People that are positive attract positive things.

I'm not worried about the "other guy," I mind my own business in that regard! Which makes me pretty un-selfish.

Thanks!

I see That's no problem, it's the way that you live your life. And you see, our "Golden Rules" respect each other because you treat others as you'd like to be treated, and those that don't enjoy what you like, you stay away from them. I treat others as they'd like to be treated as best as I can, if I can't then I stay away from them. If you and I came into contact we'd have no conflict In fact, I think opposites do attract. How could it go awry? You'd be treated how you'd like to be treated... I am merely nothing more than a caring servent... one that will not be subjected to any mental or physical form of progress stunting abuse.