America’s Armageddonites -- Why I am AGAINST Organized Religion.

Utopian fantasies have long transfixed the human race. Yet today a much rarer fantasy has become popular in the United States. Millions of Americans, the richest people in history, have a death wish. They are the new “Armageddonites,” fundamentalist evangelicals who have moved from forecasting Armageddon to actually trying to bring it about.

Source

While I am all for the individuals right to faith and the belief in the god/gods of their choice, it's crap like this that makes me opposed to organized religion.

It seems that even on opposing sides, religious fanatics all have the ultimate goal in mind and that is getting a sure pass into heaven.

Forget that we have absolutely NO proof of a heaven or hell and the fact that almost all scientific evidence we have directly refutes most religious belief. These "true believers" still seem to be on a direct crash course with the afterlife and they don't mind in the least (in fact, some of them set out to) taking the rest of us with them.

I find it amazing that almost all religions of the world label themselves "peaceful" when religion is probably the single largest cause of murder and torture the world has ever seen.

Now, I'm all for these people fighting to their death, if that's what they wish to do. But, it runs into the problematic realm when they take it upon themselves to take the rest of us down with them.

I'm sorry, but I know in my own heart and mind that there is no god and for that reason, I'm not exactly ready to die for him.

Fight all you want fellas, but please take that crap somewhere where only you have to worry about the consequences.


Jasn

Your assesment is only about 50% accurate. I would say that it was people, not religion, that is the cause of most wars. Religion is but one guise to wage war. Hitler's war in Eurpope had little to do with religion. The wars in Vietnam and Korea were not religious. The war in Iraq isn't about religion. Mainly wars are fought over resource control. Why do you think the U.S. is "spreading democracy" to oil exporting countries and not in Sudan or Somolia where it's needed even more?

To blame religion for wars is like blaming guns for death. It's not the weapon that's put on trial. It's the person using the weapon that's to blame.

reply to post by dbates


I didn't say anything about war. I said "murder and torture". There have been an outrageous number of people murdered and tortured for religious reasons since the dawn of man. However, religious ideals have also been responsible for a great number of wars as well. Sure, it's because of man and their interpretation of those ideals, but, would those same wars have happened without the religious beliefs there to fuel them?

Who knows?


Jasn

I think the original post, as well as the external source that it quoted from, is slightly overstated. I don't think it is accurate to say that religious fundamentalists have a death wish and that they want everyone else to die with them.

Most religious fundamentalists just know that death, whether by natural causes or some type of armageddon scenario, is inevitable. Since they also believe in heaven and hell, they feel it necesary to warn the masses about the dangers that await them in the afterlife if they don't repent and convert.

Of course they also have a fixation on their endtime prophecy scenarios and I will admit that most of them seem to look forward to fulfillment of such prophecies. Actually, I think most of them are not quite as excited about the prospect as they claim to be. I think most of them are scared out of their minds over death and endtime scenarios and they just don't want to admit it. So they cover it up to make their fear look more like obsession.

I suppose I could be wrong about this but thats my opinion.

Self-fufilled Prophesies

That's the key word.

I'm wondering how many religious text books are being played out today.

Are countries (mentioned in holy books) and possibly political leaders jumping on the wagon for fame and glory, and their little write-up in our history books?

I'm in agreement with debates. We can't blame religion; too generalized. It's the motives/actions behind the scenes that are constantly directing and re-directing societie's timeline.

All the nutbars (ie. David Koresh/Waco incident) out there who claim to be a 'Messiah', came and went; leaving behind a disgruntled group of followers in the wake.

These types of people decifer/read into scriptures and take it upon themselves, what is 'truth'. The 'ignorant' masses are stupified into believing what these charasmatic individuals say to them.

i.e. Jim Jones cult/Heaven's gate

Other classic examples.

The unfortunate outcome to this was mass sucide.

It's not just cults, it's political leaders as well.

i.e. Hitler

A man who led his country out of poverty, into Superpower status in the 1930's and 40's. He supposedly held the "Spear of Destiny", and thought it his duty to anihilate millions upon millions of innocent Jews. This character was held in high-esteem by his own people.

Such is the way with these individuals.
They prophesised, they lead, others follow, and in the end, the leaders are de-throned. Vicious circle.

Originally posted by dbates
Hitler's war in Eurpope had little to do with religion.

Actually...that was Churchill's war...

Ive read the OP.

I agree to a degree.

As a member of The Native American Church, There is ALOT of cowpucky when it comes to ORGANISED religion.

I have lived lifetimes... Many of which are within differing groups of varius "organised religions".

How do we reconcile that?

The obvious is the most readily available. Look within....

You (me, them, in fact everyone you meet/encounter/etc....) have by now obviously encountered everything to its utmost degree.

What works for you? What do YOU feel is right for YOU?

Do not of course enforce this upon any other.. THEY themselves can feel whats right for THEM... To each our own... deeply internal, and personal...

THERE IS NO BROAD CLEAR ANSWER... each of us within ourselves hold they key (and therefor anwser) to that question.

Grock?

reply to post by dbates



Well, considering that the war in Iraq is under the guise of "the war on terrorism," I'd say it's all about religion. I have stated time and time again, and I will state it here, that the "War on terrorism" is little more or less than a renewed crusade to stabilize two religions who feel like they are losing their influence on the world.

SimiusDei, as I am sure you are aware, I am a pretty spiritual person. I believe beyond any shadow of a doubt that there is an afterlife; however, with that being said, I too have problems with organized religion. I think for the most part, it has been corrupted, at least for the last 1700 years, by people who do not want others to think for themselves.

Evangelicals, because the "end times" are not occurring the way they have concocted in their distorted imaginations, are trying to make their imaginings become reality. However, the Bible, the book that they claim to venerate, states that God will not allow it to happen. So, in their rabid desire to bring about the total destruction that their sick imaginations have concocted about the "end times" scenario, they are actually enemies of God.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Evangelicals, because the "end times" are not occurring the way they have concocted in their distorted imaginations, are trying to make their imaginings become reality. However, the Bible, the book that they claim to venerate, states that God will not allow it to happen. So, in their rabid desire to bring about the total destruction that their sick imaginations have concocted about the "end times" scenario, they are actually enemies of God.

So perfectly stated! And I agree, wholeheartedly!

ESPECIALLY the part that says: God will not allow it to happen.

We can hope for war and destruction but if GOD desires that we have peace, then so mote it be! Because that IS what the bible says that GOD desires.

Jeremiah 29:11

should not the evil one be purged.

should not justice be served?

you call it murder, I call it a punishment, he calls it unfair and shocking.

but all the same, in medieval europe, if you killed someone in cold blood, you'd likely get killed in cold blood, by the Church officials.

but in this case does the end justify the means? I dont know.

part of me says, "even if you kill you should not be killed by a state or a group or any official entity such as your own countries government"

and the other part says, "if you kill chances are youre going to get killed. and if you do you cant say it was a surprise really.."

[edit on 10/31/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by runetang
part of me says, "even if you kill you should not be killed by a state or a group or any official entity such as your own countries government"

Runetang, part of me says that as well... However, the bible does say to "Obey the laws of the land." Wouldn't that be the laws of your country/government?

Many different beliefs here and there but if you read and believe in the Bible, it is perfectly clear:



God's judgement on the earth is coming and no one, nor the angels, and not even the Son knows of this particular hour.

Jesus said of his return to Earth:

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As far as America's Armageddonites? Yes.. I know exactly what you mean.

I'll admit, I sometimes have the thought that it would be nice if Jesus would just get it all over with but I also understand that this is all on God's time.. It is interesting to think about the fact that there are people in powerful positions that are obviously trying to usher in the apocalypse.. these are not true Christians and are of the antichrist spirit. As a REAL Christian you should understand that you are to be a watchman on the wall and watch for the signs.. EXPECTING Jesus to return but not actually trying to hurry things up. Any position of power that is influencing any move towards an apocalypse, I.E.. globalist movement towards a one world government is demonic and Christians should be very weary and acutely aware of any such and type of agenda. Many 'Christian Preachers' will fall into this globalist trap and will indeed be the end time 'false shepherds' mentioned in the Bible. My message to these Armageddonites? Sit down, shut up and read your Bible and either believe Jesus or not as He made it clear.. The time of His return is the FATHERS business and in the meantime why don't you ask God what he wants you to do? Trust me, God will take you home when he is good and ready and that is God's decision, NOT yours.

While I believe the Bible is the revealed Word of God and I believe Revelation is being fulfilled before our very eyes and that Armageddon is drawing near, I find this article laughable at best. It is actually a form of fear mongering. I don't know of any fundamentalist christian, even those who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture (which I consider a false teaching), who desires to hasten the coming of the day of the Lord. Such thinking is foolishness.

Moreover I doubt there is widespread support even among evangelicals for endless war in the middle east. Most know that it would spell the end of our country if pursued to it's logical conclusion.

You will find support for a vigorous war against muslim extremists however and for good reason. They want us dead and will use any means at their disposal to kill us.

You will also find support for the existence of the state of Israel. The rebirth of Israel is a stunning fulfillment of ancient Biblical prophecies. As such we do not believe in land for peace deals, since it's always been used as a pretext to launch attacks against Israel. We are for Israeli settlements because that's the land that was promised to Israel. However settlers should not be taking land at the expense of Palestinians in the West bank for two reasons.
1) These Pal.s are genetically fellow Israelites.
2) The old testament commands that strangers should be treated with special respect.

However if these Palestinians are just trying to kill and destroy because of a brainwashing campaign to kill Jews. They have no right to the land and the trouble makers should be removed via deportation.