Escape and evasion

How to survive when you are equipped, trained, and hunted?

Psychological battle
Short term survival
equipment
concealment
long term survival
escape technique
lock picking
escape tools
escape and evasion

If you can improvise you can survive, if you cant work on it.

Originally posted by kitsiew
How to survive when you are equipped, trained

What? I don't get the meaning of your post - if you're both equipped and trained you've got nothing to worry about really.

Just remember your training.

Well assuming that you have escaped from captivity you have two choices you can head for the wildness or civilization it one or the other if you have been sleeping in a mud pit for a week and you enter a town people are going to notice that you smell. What ever you do you will need to put as much distance between you and your captives before they discover your escape.


If you choose to make your escape in urban areas you will need to rely on in IT circles as social engineering in other words you will have to pass yourself off as someone else. You will need ID to back up your story that's about all I can I say on that matter without breaking T&C.

If you go the wildness route it would be good idea to learn tracking skills and learn how to cover your tracks. The environment around you will dictate much of what you do for example if you are in a hot climate it would be a good idea to travel at night and finding water will be your priority.

Think outside the box try reading the book The Wooden Horse by Eric Williams or watch the film. I can remember reading that one POW who was a high jumper before the war literally jumped over the wall of Colditz .

SERE (Survival, Escape, Resistance and Evasion) is a U.S. military program that provides military personnel, Department of Defense civilians, and contractors with training in the Code of Conduct, survival skills, evading capture, recovery and dealing with captivity. It was created by the Air Force at the end of the Korean War but was expanded to the Army and the Navy during the Vietnam War. The majority of students are aircrew members.

SERE training is presented at three levels:

* Level A - Entry level training. All services personnel are provided this basic level training annually.
* Level B - For personnel operating (or anticipated to operate) forward of the division rear boundary and up to the "forward line of own troops" (FLOT). Normally limited to flight personnel of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. However, due to news of British sailors breaking easily under captivity because of their lack of resistance training, the Chief of Staff of the Air Force now requires all Airmen to receive Level B SERE training.
* Level C - For troops at a high risk of capture and whose position, rank, or seniority make them vulnerable to greater than average exploitation efforts by a captor.
* Level D - For aircrews, but it has recently been phased out and all SERE-D students will undergo SERE-C training. SERE-C is now specifically taught at Fairchild AFB for Aircrew members.

"What? I don't get the meaning of your post - if you're both equipped and trained you've got nothing to worry about really.

Just remember your training. " originally posted by throbber.

Well, it is not only if you are trained or equipped, there would be some other unseen circumstances, weather posses the greatest threat to soldiers.

As a military survivor or escaper your situation will depend a number of factors:

1)the distance between you and friendly forces

2)the communication available

3)your physical condition

4)Is the enemy aware of your presence?

5)were you deliberately inserted or forcibly trapped behind enemy lines?

6)are you escaping from a prisoner-of-war camp?

Very simple.
Avoidance.
Keep a low profile, play dumb, hide what you have, know how to live without a wall-mart.

Are you anticipating being a combatant behind enemy lines?
Get specific training.

Mad Max scenario?
Get out of the city and learn to live like native peoples used to and follow my first statement.
I would prefer to have a knife, a 22lr with several thousand rounds, and a nice pair of boots, but could get by if necssary, naked with a sharp rock.

Originally posted by kitsiew
"What? I don't get the meaning of your post - if you're both equipped and trained you've got nothing to worry about really.

Just remember your training. " originally posted by throbber.

Well, it is not only if you are trained or equipped, there would be some other unseen circumstances, weather posses the greatest threat to soldiers.

That should be part of your training. smartass.

But just for you, i'll answer your points.

1)the distance between you and friendly forces

And what do you do if you're too far away from friendlies?

Sit down and cry?

Hand yourself in to the enemy?

No, you remember your training and survive, do what xpert11 said and assume a new identity - you could, for example; watch the enemy forces until you see someone that looks reasonably like you, then find a way to get his identification off of him and assume his identity.

This isn't official proceedure (unless it is, just advanced survival procedure that i am unaware of.), but from there you will have access to the enemy's supplies, and you can get everything you need, if you can pull off a good impression (it may be worth observing the target for a few days in order to get a good idea of his personality).

Alternatively you could just break into the enemy compound and assassinate the commanding officers, but i'd only suggest that if you had a death-wish/were some sort of modern-day super-ninja.




2)the communication available

Again, remember your training - it's important to note that if you're being hunted the enemy will be watching for these signals too.

3)your physical condition

Raid a farmhouse if you're hungry.

4)Is the enemy aware of your presence?

In a survival situation where you stand no chance of getting to friendlies/nearest border (where there won't nessecarily be friendlies.), the enemy WILL be aware of your presence, if you were not in a survival situation, then the mission would be going smoothly.

5)were you deliberately inserted or forcibly trapped behind enemy lines?

Makes no difference. People are trying to kill you, deal with it.

6)are you escaping from a prisoner-of-war camp?

Hot damn, if you're in this situation you're in the worst place you can ever be in, especially if they decide you're not worth the effort to keep alive.

Let me put it like this, the ultimate objective that MUST be fulfilled in a survival situation where there are hostiles involved is to ESCAPE DETECTION - if this means hiding a hole for days on end, do it.

If the enemy employs sniffer dogs, you're screwed - granted the enemy would only likely employ sniffer dogs if they were searching for you, purposefully.

If the enemy finds you, and fails to capture you - you are going to have to run, and keep running. you do not stop running unless you happen to find a bazooka or a method of transportation.

I did read somewhere that you can confuse sniffer dogs by crossing a river twice but I don't know if it would work or not.
Now onto some more random thoughts. Assuming that you are escaping via the wildness you will want to avoid trails because even if your not on the run your likely to face an ambush in such an area. Bury your rubbish including human waste and get use to living without such things as beer ice cream.

Drinking dirty water will kill you quicker then not drinking any water at all . Make as little noise as possible if you moving thou an area of high vegetation . Unless you in an area where you that there is no local population or that who is ever after you wont be looking don't do anything to give your position this includes lighting fires and shining torch lights. If you have to boil water or keep your moral up by having a hot meal do your best to conceal any naked flames at night.

If you have to don't be afriad to dig a hole and stayed concealed this would allow you to monitor an area which allows you to further plan your escape along with giving you a chance to recouped your energy levels. If your travelling in an urban area you will want a car or some other form of transport that will get you around as fast as possible. If you are travelling thou a jungle area pretty much just do the opposite of everything GIs did in Vietnam. If you can change your shoes or go bare feet you may confuse your pursuers who are looking for you out in the wildness.



[edit on 29-10-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11
I did read somewhere that you can confuse sniffer dogs by crossing a river twice but I don't know if it would work or not.



[edit on 29-10-2007 by xpert11]

My problem with sniffer dogs is that it isn't the dogs that you need to worry about specifically - it's the handlers.

Say a sniffer were to lead a group of trackers to a river, it doesn't mean they've lost your trail - the handlers can simply transport the dogs across the water and they'll pick up your trail again.

Perhaps you could cover yourself with the feaces of some local wildlife, that might do the trick.

Most of the stuff I have typed up about evading capture in the wildness comes from my Dads experience as a Digger in Vietnam. Unless you can find away to hide under water and still breath I don't have any ideas on evading sniffer dogs. Chances are if there isnt a bridge and its is unsafe for the dogs and there handlers to make a crossing the same will apply to you. Booby traps and land mines are also things you may have to weary . Really only training and experience can help you avoid land mines and booby traps and even then it only takes one slip up and your injured or dead.

reply to post by xpert11


A good reason to stay well clear of enemy fortifications, unlike what you'd be doing in a confrontationary scenario.

Landmines are usually put in place to screen a blindspot that the enemy doesn't want people coming in on, so they can focus on more defensible surroundings - so if you see a base or outpost with only a few guards where you're looking at them, chances are that you are actually in that blindspot.

On the otherhand, if you know what you're doing, you stand a chance of sneaking in un-detected (if you want to, that is).

You also need to keep a close eye on local wildlife - a startled cry from a bird can alert the enemy, just the same way as it can alert you.

It's quite possible the bird was startled by another bird, but if it happens near you, you need to move on.

As for predators, like snakes, lions and crocodiles, i'd prefer to face them with a shotgun - but in real terms i'd probably be down to using a knife or rudimentary traps.

Avoid roads...trails...and if feasable, only move at night.

Aside from that...you're on your own

Three ways of getting rid of the sniffers dogs:
1)Spray OC on to your tracks and shoesoles, that will render the dogs useless. (i would only hurt animals if i'm in a life threatening situation)

2)Put Rat poison inside a sausage and drop it your tracks...

3)And finally how i was trained to do it: Walk a loop, hide beside your own tracks and gun down the dogs as they come, then run... the handlers won't most likely be able to follow you as fast as you can move as they have to track you with their own skills... (most cops etc. wouldn't be able to follow you at all)

[edit on 30-10-2007 by northwolf]

Northwolf I have a question.
What exactly is OC and what is the likely hood you will be carrying any if you have just escaped from capacity ?
Cheers xpert11.

if you were to come across a farmers shed or something simmilar then finding some rat poisen would be rather easy, also a weapon or two.

"Pepper spray (also known as OC spray (from "Oleoresin Capsicum")"

maybe you could knock down a cop or something, steal his gun and spray. just cuff him to a tree or something and you should be fine so long as he didnt call for back up, or he wasnt alone.



in such a situation i would head for wilderness, so long as you know what you are doing it is the easiest option.
also so long as there is enough wilderness to stay elusive in.

reply to post by xpert11


OC=Pepper Spray

I think it's actualy quite likely thing to come across, most mall security guys etc. carry a can... but chili powder works too, at least if the period it's on ground is short enough.

Hey Guys,

Pretty cool thread. Haha. God willing - none of us would ever have to do this. I have done a couple of exercises when i was in the Army that are escape and evasion type.

I was out in the bush for 2 weeks doing jungle/close country recon training, break contact drills, man down drills, ambushes, insertion and extraction methods, small detachment patroling etc etc amazing how much stuff you can learn in 2 weeks when your only getting a couple hours a night sleep.

Anyways so the whole course was basically a build up to a final 'exam' - We were given a grid ref of some potential enemy activity and were tasked with setting up an observation position to see what was going on. the 'exam' was 2 days long. After getting our last lot of rations/water and orders for the course we left off - I was the lead scout for the detachment. Our det commander was suffering from smokers lung (on tactical ex's your not alloud to smoke hence he could not stop coughing) and so as you can imagine it was very slow going we we're each carry around 65kg worth of kit and ammo through really really close country in the middle of winter.

As we got closer to the grid ref we halted to drop packs - the det commander was still suffering so in his place the 2IC and myself went in to get a closer look - we must have moved about 500m (which is a long way in close country) before we came across the enemy encampment - needless to say they knew we were coming but not from where or when. We were just finishing noting down all the info - enemy numbers, weapons, morale, routine and timings etc and were about to start on the second leaf of a tactic called the four leaf clover where you find a position and move in and out as if following the outline of a four leaf clover to get view from diff angles with least danger to the observers.

Just as we got up to move out another enemy combatent was coming back with firewood - we had not waited long enough to get all of their routine down. so we froze and then started to slowly melt down to the ground hoping he would not pick us up. Not 2 seconds later the wood hits the ground he brings his weapon up to the aim and we drop him.

The guys in the encampment are all rushing for their weapons so we pop smoke and empty a clip into their direction while almost flying through the once difficult close country back to our packs and the other half of the det.

We regroup with the tail end charlie - he says the det commander has been evac'd because he was 'injured' so im sitting there for what seems like 10 mins but can't have been more than 20 seconds, while he explains this to us. Then we hear them - the 2IC having lost his partner gets up and sprints off at a 90deg angle to them trying to get them to follow him. While me and the tail end charlie gather what ammo and smoke grenades we can before getting up to move - just then i hear shouts and one of the enemy has spotted us. So we pop more smoke empty another lot of mags as we fire manueveur down into a small creek.

We hit the creek and run like the wind jumping down little cliffs and waterfalls without even looking for footing at the bottom. They were still hot on our tails and we could occasionally hear rounds being fired at us - so we keep running and running. legs burning but numb from the ice cold water at the same time.

Breaking out of the creek we moved to the top of a knoll to stop for a few seconds - we couldn't hear anything but assumed they were still hot on our tails next thing i know Tail end charlie is gone! (happened in the blink of an eye) 10m from my position was a tree that had fallen down and left a large hole where the roots had come up with it. So i jump down into this hole and get real comfortable. I sat there for what seems like days trying to control my breathing - with my mouth slightly open so as to hear better mean while using one hand to anchor me and the other to cover myself in mud. All i had was my webbing and weapon...

[edit on 20-11-2007 by blurryone]

My pack was back where we regrouped, i figured i had a couple hours of daylight left in order to get there and grab it before moving the emergency rendevous to see if i could meet up with the other guys before trekking the 18km to the extraction point.

I get to where we regrouped - remembering never to go into a position because if there they would be watching it so i did a bit of a quick recce on the place looking for positions they could be watching it from and decide there is nobody there so i move down on top of it and our packs are gone. Well thats just great - day one and im on my e-rats (water is pretty easy to get in places like this in the winter) so i figure I would move to a safer position (back at the knoll) and try and suss myself out. There wasn't enough daylight left to make it back to the ERV so i decide to plot out a course to the pick up point and start moving.

Moving through thick bush at night is tough. real tough. every little hole has to be felt out with your feet before you commit to the step otherwise you risk throwing yourself over a cliff. And the cold. almost unbarable. I would move very slowly navigating solely by compass which has glow bits for night time. Down and up hills, over creeks, through thorn patches, the works. Stopping when i am warm enough to sleep for a few mins without fear of hypothermia then the shivers set in and wake you. Now this is key you have to get up and start moving when you get the shivers or they will dissapeer and hypothermia will set in. If your shivering because your cold you have still got another level till you have anything to worry about.

Moving like this is pretty good im making some good ground and im not all to cold. Pretty slow going but best i could do with what i had at the time. I could hear vehicles in the distance which i was told would be the enemy trying to track us down using the road network (more like gravel tracks as it was in the middle of a pine/native forest).

The sun was barely up and i could see again - i was making excellent time. I had stopped at a creek and taken my boots off to check my feet and wash the blood and dead skin off them in the cold water. (Remember your feet are probably going to be your only mode of transport in these situations so you have to look after them! powder and clean at every oportunity. and if possible lance and tape blisters) My boots had been wet for 2 weeks now and my feet were in a hell of a state. I tried to get my boots back on but my feet had swollen up. It was agony i knew i had to get em back on so i did it anyways but man was it painful.

I knew at the speed i was traveling at with the state of my poor feet and the distance i had left to cover was too great to try going slow like through the bush so i decided i would risk capture and move along the roads running where i could.

A couple of vehicles passed me but luckily i heared them coming - i was carefull of my tracks - trying not to stand in anything that would stand out (soft mud and such) as i moved and i was always thinking - if they come now i will dive there or there what about now. wheres the best spot etc. Eventually they came and i dived off the road into a ditch as they drove past. luck would have it i was not meant to be caught this time (having been the only one captured in the lead up to the exam and faced interrogation etc for a night already i was pretty keen to avoid it if possible)

So i had a hour to go and i thought i was in position ready to be picked up obviously i was in an OP watching the area where i was to be picked up from because you NEVER enter the area until you know its safe.

But then i hear the troop carrier moving in the distance - the road network i had been following was all wrong the maps were old and did not reflect the actual position of the new gravel tracks. In my haste and tired daze i had forgotten a cardinal rule. Never navigate off man made objects in the bush.

[edit on 20-11-2007 by blurryone]

Always use natural features like mountains and re-entrants things that have been there as long as the bush themselves. for tracks change often.

About 2km in the distance i see the troop carrier moving from left to right down a road I did a quick assessment of my position and decided i was not that far off and that i would run the rest of the way. So i legged it down to the road the TC had just been on and then moved after it hoping i would make it in time. All the while thinking - wheres the next spot. what about now, how about there etc.

So anyways i made it to the TC just as it was about to leave - jumped on the back of it and there i was joined by Tail end charlie and a couple of other blokes that had made it from the other detatchments. All of us looked stuffed. One of course staff was passing out roll your own ciggerettes so i grabbed one. I can't even remember if i finished it. next thing i wake up and its off the trucks and into debriefing etc. Turns out our Det Cmdr was ok, nothing permanent. And our 2IC was captured. He spent the time being interrogated for the position of our RV's which he eventually gave them, so it was lucky i decided to skip em and move direct to the PUP.

Thought i would share this story with you guys. Training will take you so far. at the end of the day a cool head and a lot of luck is going to get you the rest of the way. I seriously suggest military training for anyone that thinks they may actually have to do this as it is purpose built.

There are ways of evading tracker dogs, there are also ways of setting up small abushes and traps for your pursuers. But at the end of the day it is the mental fortitude to not stop running that will get you out of immediate danger. Think you see a hiding place - they'll see it too. Heck thats what got me caught on the prep heheh. So i guess i was lucky i made that mistake early.

U2U me if you want any more info.

Hope you guys enjoy that took me ages to write. let me know if it doesn't read to well.