Universal Origin

starting new thread with this

infinity is just a word to confuse us. if somthing has no beggining and therefore no end, then it doesnt exist. if it had no beggining in the first place then it wouldnt have been created. therefore the universe it finite because it has a begginning and therefore a end. it may be infinite in a matter of speaking. if it is expanding (generaly explained by many theories including the interestig string theory i think) then it is like someone or a computer listing down all the numbers in both directions -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 it is only as big as it is at the exact moment you decide to measure it, but by that time is has passed and ur info is invalid. 0 could be the center of the universe just as much as -523,534,363 could be because it is infinitely spreading in each direction. but everything is there in frames kinda like a movie. everthing is measured in say point blank units the smallest there is. so take any one of these and the universe would be finite at that given point. but infinite in the space time level. technically there is no one point in the universe. every point in the universe is its exact center, saying this because everything was once squashed down into one single entity. if thats so then time doesnt exist outside the universe. so time is reliant on gravity and gravity is reliant on mass so photons dont pass anytime at all, thats how they travel at light speed, because no mass = no gravity = no time.

ps. i am just a 14 yr old and probably most of what i said will be considered absolute garbage to most people.

cummon post your real ideas using ur brain there is no before the big bang as there was nothing to record any imprint into and time was not into effect then.

Originally posted by quiksilver
everthing is measured in say point blank units the smallest there is. so take any one of these and the universe would be finite at that given point. but infinite in the space time level. technically there is no one point in the universe. every point in the universe is its exact center, saying this because everything was once squashed down into one single entity. if thats so then time doesnt exist outside the universe. so time is reliant on gravity and gravity is reliant on mass so photons dont pass anytime at all, thats how they travel at light speed, because no mass = no gravity = no time.

ps. i am just a 14 yr old and probably most of what i said will be considered absolute garbage to most people.

It's true that space and charge can only be divided in certain quanta. For space it's the planck length, for charge the elemental charge unit. There are theories that say that time is quantized as well.

I think there are a few mistakes in your argument:

1. "The universe came from a single source, therefore there is no time outside the universe." There is no 'outside' the universe. The definition of universe is that it is everything there is.
   
2. "Gravity relies on mass and time relies on gravity. Photons don't have mass, so they don't have any time." It's true that for photons no time passes between creation and distraction. This is because to at light speed since they have no mass. The gravity doesn't have anything to do with it.
   

P.S. You will be taken seriously, well, at least I am and I'm only 15. You should try to spell a bit better, or to use a spellchecker.

I'm only 15, so your not alone quick. I do however believe that the Universe is infinite. It's just to hard for people to comprehend something never having a beginning and never having an end. I see it as: energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so therefore energy has always been there in some way.

there are many forms of energy, perhaps when there was no 'universe' in inhabit, there was a undetectable amount and type of energy, perhaps the energy was in a neutral state if u get my drift. I've heard that another reason to the big bang was that there was a sudden quantum fluctuation. does anyone know or have any other information on this fluctuation?

Firstly, I'm kinda confused at to what your actual point was since you contradicted yourself so many times. First you said that you thought that infinity didn't exist, so you said that the universe had a beginning and end - fair point (I don't personally buy it). But then you go ahead and say that the universe can't be measured since it is expanding into infinity. You said there is no infinity, plus if something is finite it cannot be infinte - it is opposites and a contradiction.

Anyway, the centre of the universe, if you're talking about co-ordinates, would be 0 in relativity to everything else. By 0 I mean the exact centre of the finite universe in this case. There is also a definite centre, since everything came from that point and expanded outwards, plus I think it is the point in the universe which everything revolves around.

As for the thing about everywhere being the centre, since it was in one point - it wasn't. It expanded, meaning that if you looked at how the big bang was at that point with a REALLY good microscope, you could probably look below the atomic level and find trillions of points - the stars and planets. These points within the point expanded. The centre of the universe remains the point's core.

I think that makes sense, but I'm also just 14.

Every atomic structure points towards the true center. If you could see the vector path of every atomic particle you would see that they all point to one spot in the universe, the point of origin. The vector of the particle is independant of its local motion or position.

The vary base of existence relies on a bi-lateral motion. ie every white must have a black, a negative must have an equal positive, every affect must have an opposite reaction, an outside must have an inside, a record must have a "flip" side, ying and yang, good and evil, what goes up must come down, expulsion and retraction, expansion and retraction, start and stop, light and day. left side and right side. is not the very basis of computers 0's and 1's and this is just off and on

How many more can you think of ? It is the basic contruction of all things.

So the universe is expanding and some day many eons from now, will collapse. And then it will re-expand in a never ending cycle.

I think the universe and everything in it, is all things and everything is it. Therefore your existence is part of the whole scheme you are connected to it just as the planets and stars at night are. Life and the evolution and growth of any living thing is a miracle in its self. That something as small as a single cell an egg has a "program" that directs the absorbation of raw, molecules and then re-arrainges them to build other cells and then complex structure and then different types and density and layers of structures and is able to build a structure that is the brain and that it (the brain) can create thought and discussion and contemplate things that it can not see nor experience. Just think about how much of a miracle that is. Its like having one lego but somewhere deep inside that lego is a blueprint and an instruction set of how to put a trillion independant legos together to form a structure that can then think and act on its own will power. Every block having an exact copy of the instruction set but each block having its on id number on the set and which one it needs to create. Simply amazing. You throw in there a date system that tells it how many cycles to re-produce and which numbers to reproduce and the process of creating a living, thinking being that grows and then stops and then decays is beyond anything that man can duplicate. So is the universe, the concept of what and where the universe is going and how does it expand into something that can not possible exist outside of itself is beyond the capability of man to know or duplicate. This is why GOD is everything and everything is GOD you are a part of GOD, granted a very small part and GOD is a part of you. GOD creates and destroys. GOD is the one who created the order of all things, the instruction set that allows life to evolve beyond a single cell. Every atomic particle has its own instruction set. A metal wants to bond with its same kind to make a solid but can also make a bond with another atom that shares a common or compatible instruction. Like oxygen and iron which bond to make iron-oxide (rust) or hydrogen and oxygen to make water.

I posted something similar to this universe origin idea and 0=infinity and how reality is paradoxal in that it repeats itself by linking both opposite extremes (ie:the start is just after the end....darkness before dawn....yin and yang....etc.)

Here's the link...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by robertfenix
The vary base of existence relies on a bi-lateral motion. ie every white must have a black, a negative must have an equal positive, every affect must have an opposite reaction, an outside must have an inside, a record must have a "flip" side, ying and yang, good and evil, what goes up must come down, expulsion and retraction, expansion and retraction, start and stop, light and day. left side and right side. is not the very basis of computers 0's and 1's and this is just off and on

...

Every atomic particle has its own instruction set. A metal wants to bond with its same kind to make a solid but can also make a bond with another atom that shares a common or compatible instruction. Like oxygen and iron which bond to make iron-oxide (rust) or hydrogen and oxygen to make water.

Actually, they bind because that's energywise more effecient for them. That is because of the electron configuration of the atoms.

There is one really interesting exception to your first comment, although it's a bit off-topic. One would except that in the Big Bang equal amounts of matter and antimatter were formed. Those would have annihilated eachother, but the fact that we are now means that through some process more matter was formed or more matter remained.

Ok. So if the universe began 14billion(?) years ago, and even if we were travelling away from the BangPoint at the speed of light, the furthest away from universal center we could be would be 14billion light years. Right?

So.. if we could build a telescope powerful enough to see 14billion lightyears and aimed it in the right direction, would we see the Big Bang happen?


And beyond that point we would see nothing since the light from anything further away from us than the universe is old wouldn't have reached us yet.

Right?

its thought that in the beggining there was a 'substnce' called quark-gluon plasma.(incredibly hot and dense)

The theory of creation was that quarks and electrons, which were the basic building blocks of matter, floated freely in an incredibly hot, dense soup. As the universe grew and cooled, the quarks bound together into the protons and neutrons that we have today. Based on this theory(Its only a theory it might be wrong!) the matter and anti-matter weren't created at the start of the universe. Possibly anti-matter doesnt exist naturally(that or some other space phenomena took place that could have altered the particles.

Ok. So if the universe began 14billion(?) years ago, and even if we were travelling away from the BangPoint at the speed of light, the furthest away from universal center we could be would be 14billion light years. Right?

Heres a very good question built on this. When the universe expanded, would the light go inwards as in
pointing inwards into itself, or would the light go outwards into the 'void' or both? and if the unverse was expanding faster than light even for a split second then that would mean that the light was consumed back into the universe meaning that you can travel through the boundaries. thats a question for someone to answer!!!

the light and energy emitted from the big bang accelerated past the colliding and cooling gaseous masses that would later form into planets and stars. To actually see the big bang you would have to be outside the very edge of the universe "looking in" as the original light waves would be at the very edge of the expanding universe at some point (theory) they will reach an "end" and snap back traveling in the reverse path and destroying everything in its path. To any creatures intelligent enough at the time this happens it will look like a giant super nova coming from every direction consuming everything in its way. Several lightyears in front of the this collapsing energy wave, planets will begin to collide with each other as the "space" between them gets compressed, they will super heat under the pressure and being to build massive planetoid structure which in turn will create a super huge gravity mass drawing in even more planets until every piece of solid matter is compressed into the highest density solid ball you can think of. Then when the matter can not physically compress anymore, (think a super heated super compressed sun trillions of times over) the collapsing energy wave will cause the largest Fission reaction ever by imploding and then super novaing all the matter causing another big bang and the cycle will start over.

think of the end of the cycle, if all matter is the solid super heated ball of mass and the anti matter is pure energy wave that is collapsing it. When the matter can not compress anymore the anti matter causes it to implode and the shockwave causes the whole mass to explode. IF the anti matter wave was to negate the physical matter then there would be no energy. Matter therfore would not compress but slowely neutralize the anti matter until there was just two specs left, one Anti one Physical. Actually its more like negative and positive. They would just zap out of existence and you would have a great void with nothing in it. And then GOD experiment including GOD would be no more.

So when the big bang happens the "anti" matter can not negate the positive matter.

when anti matter and matter meet they produce gamma rays if i am correct?

[Edited on 31-1-2004 by quiksilver]

Yes, quicksilver.

The general hypothesis for matter-antimatter asymmetry is a combination of three factors:
- Baryon number violation: the Baryon number isn't conserved in reactions.
- CP violation: changing the charge and parity of a system doesn't produce a copy of the system. This is a result of the electroweak theory and has been observed in kaons.
- Thermal nonequilibrium - This is to make sure that baryon number violation doesn't take out as much matter as antimatter.

Also the quantum energies of the x-ray are much too high to be absorbed in electron transitions between states for most atoms, they can interact with an electron only by knocking it completely out of the atom. That is, all x-rays are classified as ionizing radiation.
This can occur by giving all of the energy to an electron (photoionization) or by giving part of the energy to the photon and the remainder to a lower energy photon.
At sufficiently high energies, the x-ray photon can create an electron positron pair. hence the positron is a anti-particle so it is constantly being created. Therefore not all anti-matter was created a the big bang.