Discovery Launches at 11:38 EDT. Expects to Reach and Dock With ISS in 44 Hours!

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Now, could you please get yourself a telescope and track the shuttle, just to prove your point? Because according to myriad observations, the stuff you claim is happening -- doesn't.

Let me second buddhasystem's request.

John,

You've made a claim, which if true, is easily provable. Prove it. Put your money where your mouth is.

-1553B

[edit on 14-11-2007 by 1553B]

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Sure John, all these are parts of a conspiracy...

Now, could you please get yourself a telescope and track the shuttle, just to prove your point? Because according to myriad observations, the stuff you claim is happening -- doesn't.

Thanks for the post BS. I have had my trusty old Celestron 8 for about 30 years. It is the same one that I saw the flying saucer that Bob worked on at S-4. Unfortunately it has the old style mount and is not set up for orbital tracking.

Now, the question is do I set this up for orbital tracking with only an 8 inch cassegrain? Or do I wait and buy a 16 inch and set it up for orbital tracking?

The problem is although John's secret space station photos are spectaclar they were taken with a 10 inch scope. So I want mine to be better with more detail.

Although my Dad was quite wealthy he only left me one dollar which, incidentally, I never got. So I am not likely to be able to afford anything fancy in the near future. Which is good, I guess, for NAZA.

But thanks for the suggestion and the post.

Oh no John, taking ultra-hi res pix of the SSS is not on top of this thread's agenda. Tracking the shuttle is. The coordinates are availble when it is in flight, so with a little ingenuity you can point your scope to a few points in orbit to verify whether it's true or not. Many, many people have done so (including middle school students) with great success, and they discovered that the shuttle flew as planned. I encourage you to follow in their footsteps and verify that as well.

You'll never do that, John, because you know this one is bunk.



[edit on 14-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by johnlear
Although my Dad was quite wealthy he only left me one dollar which, incidentally, I never got. So I am not likely to be able to afford anything fancy in the near future. Which is good, I guess, for NAZA.

But thanks for the suggestion and the post.

Your excuse is not having the money? Come on, that's just plan ridiculous. Between the listeners of Coast to Coast, your supporters on this forum, etc. you can't muster enough $$ to buy a half-way decent telescope? That same telescope will make you richer than rich! After proving your SSS theory you could publish a book of all of your theories and millions of people would buy it!

If John Lear won't do it, how about one of his more well-heeled supporters? Where have you guys gone in this thread anyhow?

Of course SSS would have to exist in the first place...

BUNK!

[edit on 14-11-2007 by 1553B]

Originally posted by 1553B

Originally posted by johnlear
Although my Dad was quite wealthy he only left me one dollar which, incidentally, I never got. So I am not likely to be able to afford anything fancy in the near future. Which is good, I guess, for NAZA.

But thanks for the suggestion and the post.

Your excuse is not having the money? Come on, that's just plan ridiculous. Between the listeners of Coast to Coast, your supporters on this forum, etc. you can't muster enough $$ to buy a half-way decent telescope? That same telescope will make you richer than rich! After proving your SSS theory you could publish a book of all of your theories and millions of people would buy it!

If John Lear won't do it, how about one of his more well-heeled supporters? Where have you guys gone in this thread anyhow?

Of course SSS would have to exist in the first place...

BUNK!

[edit on 14-11-2007 by 1553B]

It's simple. It's far too easy to go outside and view with his own eyes what is really going on. Instead, he will concoct some totally absurd story that makes absolutely zero sense with more holes in it than he can count, let alone remember.

One day we are mining the moon, the next it's actually an alien ship but we are still mining it. People have caught him far too many times. His stories have far too many leaks in them. Just remember, even if you think you are looking at the shuttle or the ISS you really aren't, it's a hologram.

Hoo boy!

I would like to stay neutral here, rational and curious. But, seems like a few of you are 'piling on' in a way that is mean, sorry. You may disagree, of course...that's the bedrock of a discussion.

Having never met Capt Lear, I do not know one way or the other as to the veracity of what he writes. However, I believe in civil discourse above all. It is called 'Above Top Secret'.

Respect

reply to post by weedwhacker


I certainly agree with the weedwacker here, nobody is forcing you to read or believe what is written on these boards, you are allowed to make up your own mind about them and move on.

If you are going to constantly reply or comment with sarcasm, then that is your choice but a discussion is a two way street. The constant requests for proof positive of the SSS is healthy, but what positive proof can you put forward that they are not there?

If 'they' do not want you to 'see' it because it is 'secret' then you have no chance.
What the Iraqi airforce thought was a flight of birds on their radar in '92 turned out to be a lot more deadly.

A little common courtesy will go a long way here at ATS. Dissing somebody will only get you ignored or warned.

By all means 'smack' the theory, but not the theorist.

My 2c

Originally posted by weedwhacker
But, seems like a few of you are 'piling on' in a way that is mean, sorry....

Yeah, facts are stubborn things...

Originally posted by weedwhackerHowever, I believe in civil discourse above all.

I think the worst he's gotten is a face full of physics. In contrast, he's equated NASA, one of the most impressive and truly altruistic governmental organizations that the world has ever known, with genocidal maniacs bent on world domination.

And you're calling us mean?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Respect

Yeah, that, and facts too.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Dear Weedwhacker,

for the benefit of the participants, how do you think we should conduct this discussion? Seriously. Let's say, John is saying something that doesn't match the verifiable facts. Could you give us a template of a statement that tells him about that without seemingly being "mean" (which I don't think I am, but just making sure).

Originally posted by Havalon
I certainly agree with the weedwacker here, nobody is forcing you to read or believe what is written on these boards, you are allowed to make up your own mind about them and move on.

A few of us on here have asked for easily verifiable proof, and we got a cock & bull reply. Surely a man who makes such fantastic claims and who has the opportunity to prove them should jump at the chance right? If you don't see his excuses and inaction as damming of not only this theory, but all his theories, then you need to go back to school.

I think you're better than that, right?

Originally posted by Havalon
If you are going to constantly reply or comment with sarcasm, then that is your choice but a discussion is a two way street. The constant requests for proof positive of the SSS is healthy, but what positive proof can you put forward that they are not there?

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them" - Thomas Jefferson

The burden of proof lies with those who make the fantastic claim, not those who discount it. As far as I can telll, this is the only one of his outlandish claims which can be tested, and proven, from your own backyard. It is up to "expert" John Lear to put up, or shut up. Period.

You might think that's mean but most people call that the scientific process.

Originally posted by Havalon
A little common courtesy will go a long way here at ATS.

Consider it retribution for insulting our collective intelligence with his bogus theories.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Hello...I'm not defending Capt Lear, nor am I advocating being dismissive of his claims outright. I suppose it's because I feel some affinity for him as a fellow aviator. I spent 35 years flying airplanes. Perhaps I was too sensitive, sorry. Maybe someday I'll fly out to Las Vegas and take him out for a beer.

Regarding real science? That's what I personally believe in. I just like to keep reading about new discoveries...

Originally posted by 1553B


Thank you for your post 1553B

A few of us on here have asked for easily verifiable proof, and we got a cock & bull reply. Surely a man who makes such fantastic claims and who has the opportunity to prove them should jump at the chance right? If you don't see his excuses and inaction as damming of not only this theory, but all his theories, then you need to go back to school.

I think he has attempted to show what proof he has, but if it is supposed to be secret then a perfect high quality high-res shot of the blinkin' thing is going to be a bit difficult to produce. I agree with you some of Johns theories are a bit 'out there', but the US is capable of having the technology and the wherewithall to create a covert platform in space.
Intelligence gathering has always been a well funded and high priority with the Executive branch of the US government.

I think you're better than that, right?

I keep an open mind until verification of the facts has been established. So far it has not, to my satisfaction, so I continue with the open mind.

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them" - Thomas Jefferson

One mans opinion - I respect him for saying that - but I do not agree with him. Some of the greatest inventions were by accident, not by distinctive reasoning. Without theory we remain closeted with closed minds.

The burden of proof lies with those who make the fantastic claim, not those who discount it. As far as I can telll, this is the only one of his outlandish claims which can be tested, and proven, from your own backyard. It is up to "expert" John Lear to put up, or shut up. Period.

I believe he has provided all the evidence that he has on this, as mentioned, to get a decent hi-res shot would be difficult if htey do not want you to see it. Work is still being done on that (or so I understand)

You might think that's mean but most people call that the scientific process.

Let us agree to disagree on that, I still admire civility as one of mans best traits.

Consider it retribution for insulting our collective intelligence with his bogus theories.

I chose to ignore that comment, it has the word 'retribution' in it. not very civil in my opinion.

Thanks again.




[edit on 14-11-2007 by Havalon]

[edit on 14-11-2007 by Havalon]

Originally posted by 1553B Why can't we see the secret space stations in orbit by themselves?

They are cloaked... we 'covered' that already

I don't know yet what the 'ships' are that John Lenard takes images of but they don't look like the ISS

So far the only clue he has given us is this one... I already have Jack looking for them but no luck so far... and have asked Mike in the UK to see if he can spot anything... In the image below I can see Orion so maybe that will help some of you 'armchair astronomers' out there



And this is the other clue...



The images he provides are not still photos but are screen captures of videos. He has not been forth coming with more info because of presumed threats and having been promised something only to be 'ripped off" in the process...

So until he feels confident to release more details on locations this is all we have to go on...

Except the fact that when he posted at a NASA forum and simply asked what satellites these might be... he was deleted from the posts... the reason given was that 'They do not tolerate any UFO funny business there....'

An ATS member manages to screen capture his posts from Google cache..



In the screen capture below you will see the response to John Lenard is still there but none of John's posts remain...

Originally posted by StudioGuy
If there are people who are screaming that the shuttle is docking at a secret space station (or multiple stations), then it should be their MISSION to do just that.

No one is 'screaming' merely studying possibilities... and why should it be my mission? I already take up more time than I should just showing what I do...

However I am getting more input daily that tells me I am on the right track... and some of this data even comes from a skeptic When I have it together, trust me I won't hesitate to show it...

They should organize themselves and take turns tracking and photographing the shuttle and/or ISS on every orbit for its entire mission. It should also be a goal to have people on all sides of the planet doing the same thing so as not to have any times when the shuttle isn't being observed.

Again... WHY should 'we' do this? You seem to be under the impression we are on a mission to prove to everyone... well me personally, I am here to find out for myself and share what I know... so others can find it for themselves...

Maybe if there was a way to get rich off this quest (as many have already accused us of) then I might consider a world wide organization to do as you wish. But my pocket is not very deep so I will have to put that Mission on hold.

Of course, after that yields no results, which is inevitible, the SSS crowd will just claim they're only docked on the light side of the earth when a ground observer can't see them.

AH! So you have already predicted the outcome... I guess I can scrap the mission plans then... you already have the results it seems...

On that 'light side' thing... thanks for the tip! Might come in handy

But I do know one thing... we are sure ruffling a lot of feathers lately

Originally posted by 1553B
I don't believe there aren't SSS', I KNOW there aren't.

Well when we even make it sound like we KNOW rather than "its just our opinion' you skeptics call us to task...

So I respectfully ask that we play by the same rules... I would like you to explain and back up your statement "I KNOW there aren't."

Either that or retract it and modify it to say "I BELIEVE there aren't."

You CAN'T change inclination in orbit; it is fixed to within fractions of a degree based on launch trajectory.

You CAN if you have an anti grav drive... I am pretty sure the shuttle doesn't LOL but but if it did...

While there is little doubt that there is a TON of secret spacejunk floating around up there, and there is the technical ability to build and maintain several space stations (and hide them from view) So there is no point in arguing that it is not possible, it is. Period. But rather, lets look at the who, what, how.....etc. I think the answer to this ridiculous conspiracy lies in the details. As soon as you apply logic and reason to the 5 w's the whole thing falls apart.

I've said this before, but to have a secret space station would involve a TON of vendors, contractors, and support. It's not like when they are building the ISS they just go ahead and order two of everything, it's more complicated than that.

And, what would be the benefit of having a secret, manned space station? Why? No reason, you could have unmanned platforms do anything that a manned platform could do, cheaper, faster, and more accurately. What would be the reason for a secret, manned space station?

Originally posted by zorgon
No one is 'screaming' merely studying possibilities... and why should it be my mission? I already take up more time than I should just showing what I do...

What DO you do? Look at blurry pictures on the internet? I'll ask you the same thing I asked John lear - why not take the pictures yourself!?

Oh now I remember... cloaking devices! Funny how those cloaking devices still let your friends take blurry pictures...

Originally posted by zorgon
However I am getting more input daily that tells me I am on the right track... and some of this data even comes from a skeptic

When I have it together, trust me I won't hesitate to show it...

More blurry pictures does not data make.

Originally posted by zorgon
Again... WHY should 'we' do this? You seem to be under the impression we are on a mission to prove to everyone... well me personally, I am here to find out for myself and share what I know... so others can find it for themselves...

Because you make the claims, why not make it undeniable? It would be SO EASY!

Instead, you hide behind touchy feally B.S. rather than prove to you, me, and the world that you're right.

Originally posted by zorgon
Maybe if there was a way to get rich off this quest (as many have already accused us of) then I might consider a world wide organization to do as you wish. But my pocket is not very deep so I will have to put that Mission on hold.

Aha, another "I don't have the money to prove my theory correct" excuse. You don't even need money, or a worldwide organization. You just need your eyes, a clear night, and a clue as to where to look.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well when we even make it sound like we KNOW rather than "its just our opinion' you skeptics call us to task...

So I respectfully ask that we play by the same rules... I would like you to explain and back up your statement "I KNOW there aren't."

I'm a stargazer. At every opportunity I go out and watch the ISS and shuttle go overhead. I've seen it with my own eyes; The ISS flies overhead on it's 51.6 degree path. The shuttle launches from Florida on a 51.6 degree inclination trajectory. they're the only two things in the sky at that inclination. That's it. You can even seen the shuttle approach the ISS and depart the ISS. keep in mind, this is with the naked eye - no fancy equipment required.

I've tested your theory, and mine, and yours is bunk. You've tested neither, and for no good reason. Why don't you?

Originally posted by zorgon
Either that or retract it and modify it to say "I BELIEVE there aren't."

I know there aren't SSS' like I know there aren't fairies and leprechauns - there's not a shred of evidence for any of them, and that works for me.

Originally posted by zorgon
You CAN if you have an anti grav drive... I am pretty sure the shuttle doesn't LOL but but if it did...

The shuttle does have anti-gravity capability - it's called two boosters and three main engines.

Awesome. So on top of the cloaking device you have to have anti-gravity drive as well. Are they any other things you'd like to make up to make your theory even remotely plausible? Like I keep saying. You needn't make up stuff. Go outside on a clear night and watch.

[edit on 14-11-2007 by 1553B]

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I've said this before, but to have a secret space station would involve a TON of vendors, contractors, and support. It's not like when they are building the ISS they just go ahead and order two of everything, it's more complicated than that.

Yup good point... and that is why I am establishing contacts with people at Boeing, etc... to see what I can ferret out... but thank you for conceding on the secret space junque

Still no word from our 'ground jockey' Oh well

Originally posted by 1553B
You can even seen the shuttle approach the ISS and depart the ISS. keep in mind, this is with the naked eye - no fancy equipment required.
I've tested your theory, and mine, and yours is bunk.

This is your proof that let's you say you KNOW? Well sorry that doesn't cut it around here... but seeing as your new I will cut you some slack...

I know there aren't SSS' like I know there aren't fairies and leprechauns -

LOL I guess you came to late for the 'battle' over statements like that in this thread a few pages back

Welcome to ATS