Discovery Launches at 11:38 EDT. Expects to Reach and Dock With ISS in 44 Hours!

How many astronomers spend their time tracking the shuttle's orbit continuously looking for a secret docking opportunity?

If there are people who are screaming that the shuttle is docking at a secret space station (or multiple stations), then it should be their MISSION to do just that. They should organize themselves and take turns tracking and photographing the shuttle and/or ISS on every orbit for its entire mission. It should also be a goal to have people on all sides of the planet doing the same thing so as not to have any times when the shuttle isn't being observed.

Of course, after that yields no results, which is inevitible, the SSS crowd will just claim they're only docked on the light side of the earth when a ground observer can't see them. They would then necessarily contend that the shuttle docks and undocks every 45 minutes or so in order to offload all the fresh bananas while the sun is up but get undocked and sufficiently clear so as not to draw attention to the SSS when they pass back into shadow and observability.

Ya'll have fun with that!



[edit on 14-11-2007 by StudioGuy]

Originally posted by tezzajw
The only way that amatuer astronomers could hope to get a picture of the shuttle docked at a secret space station is to follow the shuttle around and hope that it docks with a secret space station. How many astronomers spend their time tracking the shuttle's orbit continuously looking for a secret docking opportunity?

If one feels passionate enough about the subject so as to post terabytes of fantastical stories here, it's only fair to remark:

"You've talked the talk, now walk the walk"

If you don't, you either don't care about it (and why should anybody else), or you know in you heart it's bunk. Many of the hours spent here on the ATS could be spent doing field work to confirm your claim. Without that, such theories remain at the kindergarten level.

In fact, I suspect that there are a few enthusiasts out there who routinely follow the shuttle.



[edit on 14-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Your argument has flaws in it. Whether or not you believe there are secret space stations, consider this...

I don't believe there aren't SSS', I KNOW there aren't.

Originally posted by tezzajwIf there are secret space stations and no one knows about them, then how would amatuer astronomers KNOW what time the shuttle is going to dock with them?

By tracking the orbit of the known ISS and knowing when the shuttle is docked there, it's fairly routine to get some great pictures.

Let me guess, you've not taken a course in orbital mechanics or dynamics?

The ISS flies at an inclination of 51.6 decrees (the angle between the orbital plane and the equator). In order for the shuttle to dock to it it must also be flying at 51.6 degrees. You CAN'T change inclination in orbit; it is fixed to within fractions of a degree based on launch trajectory. If the Shuttle is visiting the ISS AND SSS on the same mission, then the SSS are also orbiting the earth at an inclination of 51.6 degrees. You might not understand this, but it is an indisputable fact of orbital mechanics. It is not open to debate. If you really want to "deny ignorance," get this book and understand it.

Great. So now we know where to look for SSS'! They're in orbit at 51.6 degrees and thus the path is easily predictable.

Originally posted by tezzajwThe only way that amatuer astronomers could hope to get a picture of the shuttle docked at a secret space station is to follow the shuttle around and hope that it docks with a secret space station. How many astronomers spend their time tracking the shuttle's orbit continuously looking for a secret docking opportunity?

We know exactly where the SSS' must be if the Shuttle is to dock with them. You needn't even track the Shuttle constantly; just look for moving objects in the sky traveling at an inclination of 51.6 degrees. You'll find the shuttle and the ISS and that is all.

This is reason #241 that the entire notion of Shuttle missions to SSS en route to or from the ISS is beyond absurd.

[edit on 14-11-2007 by 1553B]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
If one feels passionate enough about the subject so as to post terabytes of fantastical stories here, it's only fair to remark:

"You've talked the talk, now walk the walk"

If you don't, you either don't care about it (and why should anybody else), or you know in you hearth it's bunk. Many of the hours spent here on the ATS could be spent doing field work to confirm your claim. Without that, such theories remain at the kindergarten level.

AMEN!

The reason these people don't bother to confirm their claims is either because they:

1) Subconsciously know they're wrong. They hold on to these beliefs as a Band-Aid for true psychological problems. To prove their fanciful ideas wrong would be like tearing the Band-Aid off.

2) They don't understand it. Astronomy is complicated. Physics is complicated. At the very least they need to learn enough about it to know where and when in the sky to look. They'd rather wallow in ignorance than put forth an effort to understand - because it's easier. It's the same reason that most conspiracy theorists are exceptionally unsuccessful people.

3) They overestimate just how much they know. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect:

The brainpan effect, occasionally known as the Dunning-Kruger effect, is the phenomenon wherein people who have little knowledge think that they know more than others who have much more knowledge.

The phenomenon was demonstrated in a series of experiments performed by Justin Kruger and David Dunning, then both of Cornell University. Their results were published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology in December 1999.

Kruger and Dunning noted a number of previous studies which tend to suggest that in skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis, "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" (as Charles Darwin put it). They hypothesized that with a typical skill which humans may possess in greater or lesser degree,

-Incompetent individuals tend to overestimate their own level of skill.
-Incompetent individuals fail to recognize genuine skill in others.
-Incompetent individuals fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy.
-If they can be trained to substantially improve their own skill level, these individuals can recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill.

Originally posted by 1553B

The ISS flies at an inclination of 51.6 decrees (the angle between the orbital plane and the equator). In order for the shuttle to dock to it it must also be flying at 51.6 degrees. You CAN'T change inclination in orbit; it is fixed to within fractions of a degree based on launch trajectory. If the Shuttle is visiting the ISS AND SSS on the same mission, then the SSS are also orbiting the earth at an inclination of 51.6 degrees. You might not understand this, but it is an indisputable fact of orbital mechanics. It is not open to debate.

Thanks for the post 1553B.

History has proven wrong many who said "You CAN'T".

What you should probably say is that "Current techonology doesn't presently know how to..." that would be more accurate.

There were those who thought 60 mph was the maximum speed of a car.

There were those who thought Mach 1 was the limiting speed of an airplane.

There were those who thought airplanes would never fly, or that we would ever go to the moon.

History is replete with those who said "You can't", only to be proven wrong. But I have carefully noted your position in line.

So while with your present knowledge you don't know how the inclination of an orbit can be changed I can assure you there are those who do.

But thanks for your input and post.

Originally posted by johnlear
What you should probably say is that "Current techonology doesn't presently know how to..." that would be more accurate.

Here we go again. Now you are saying that the Space Shuttle itlsef is a decorative shell around an alien artifact or its human-made replica. How very convenient! And of course, this secret is under wraps despite the fact that there is more than one shuttle vehicle and thousands of people are involved in this fleet's maintainance.

Sure, John. Cell phones are disguised telepathic devices. Microwave ovens are using zero-point energy to induce vibrations in the atomic structure of the food. The computer you are sitting at right now is wired into the alien mainframe located in the deep tunnels of the Moscow subway. In fact, I am one of the alien operators. Boo!

Originally posted by johnlear
History has proven wrong many who said "You CAN'T"...

So while with your present knowledge you don't know how the inclination of an orbit can be changed I can assure you there are those who do.

One could change the inclination of an orbit - with exceptional amounts of energy. Far, far more than the Shuttle, or any other spacecraft, has on tap.

So what you're telling us is the Shuttle CAN change it's inclination in orbit by some means (that produces exceptional amounts of energy or another means). It's bunk, but I don't need to bother debating that point. For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume that your assertion that it can be done.

But it never has. Never. No professional or amateur astronomer, no private or public orbital tracking system, has even seen the Shuttle do so. Like I've said before, observing it doing so would be easy! On successive orbits the shuttle would be tracing a different path across the sky. But nobody has ever seen it do so.

End of.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Here we go again. Now you are saying that the Space Shuttle itlsef is a decorative shell around an alien artifact or its human-made replica. How very convenient! And of course, this secret is under wraps despite the fact that there is more than one shuttle vehicle and thousands of people are involved in this fleet's maintainance.

Thanks for the post BS. I would say that perhaps the Shuttle has techonology within it that many are not aware of. Maybe that technology would enable it to change its inclination or at least meet with other craft that are able to change their inclination.

It is my opinion that the technology base available to the NAZA/DoD/Military Industrial Complex is at least 50 years ahead of any publically released technology.

So our capabilities are probably beyond imagination.

In fact, I am one of the alien operators. Boo!

Thanks for your input and your post.

reply to post by 1553B


You see, Mr.1553B -- JL can always say that

(a) there is a cloaking device onboard shuttle

(b) a holografic decoy is deployed in the orbit when
the shuttle is on its secret run to the secret space station

There is just no limit in this chain of ludicrous claims that one can come up with, to justify an equally ludicrous initial statement. You can't win.

and...

(c) there is no ISS. The footage is coming from a Hollywood studio, and there is a full scale mockup, made of plywood, that's orbiting Earth. Here you have, it, John Lear style.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
You can't win.

That sentence pretty well sums up the pointlessness of discussing these "opinions". Another absurdity can be tacked on to justify any position.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

(c) there is no ISS. The footage is coming from a Hollywood studio, and there is a full scale mockup, made of plywood, that's orbiting Earth. Here you have, it, John Lear style.

Anything is possible BS. I would guess that the truth is stranger than we can imagine. (with acknowledgment to Sir Arthur Eddington).

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Laxpla
no proof to back up your claim, no proof at all! No proof.

Naturally... if there was proof that would satisfy you just lying around in public domain sites it wouldn't be secret

Also Ron, you didnt answer my other question.

Do you think the SSS is a mini soul catcher in our orbit for the secret moon soul catcher base. Like it hyperbeams the souls to the moon?

Didn't answer it as I know nothing about soul catchers... thats John and Sleepers department, but I doubt the SSS has much to do with that

Care to fill me in what you mean by "hyperbeaming the souls to the moon"?

[edit on 14-11-2007 by zorgon]

So, theirs no proof or no substantial evidence for this "theory" or what ever its called . Even a theory needs some kind of ground to fall back on.

Answer me this,

The Russians and the US, jointly founded the ISS. Wouldnt it raise a red flag, if the United States lauched a shuttle, and wasnt coming to the ISS at a normal scheduled time. The Russians would have some sort or understanding of a SSS, thus making it no secret. What advantage would the USA have with Russia knowing their "hiding" a "secret space station"?

Originally posted by Laxpla

The Russians and the US, jointly founded the ISS. Wouldnt it raise a red flag, if the United States lauched a shuttle, and wasnt coming to the ISS at a normal scheduled time. The Russians would have some sort or understanding of a SSS, thus making it no secret. What advantage would the USA have with Russia knowing their "hiding" a "secret space station"?

Thanks for the post Laxpla. We have always shared our techonology with the Russians. The Russians were the first to publically photograph the far side of the moon in 1959 and were the first to soft land on the moon in 1966. They were also in lunar orbit to greet Apollo 11.

Numerous Progess rockets meet the Shuttle at the ISS with supplies destined for other platforms which are then delivered during the 55 hours that are allegedly used for potty breaks, naps, turning on the IMU and checking the suit pressurization.

Both the U.S. and Russia share similar goals so it would be to both their advantages to keep the secret.

Thanks for your post and input.

The ISS is a joint project not just between USA and Russia, but a number of nations who would have to be involved in most aspects of the ISS-related missions.

en.wikipedia.org...

and there were plenty of visitors form plenty of countries:

en.wikipedia.org...

Of course, the next step in the escalation of ludicrous claims would be to say that both Japan and Europe are also in on the dark secrets of alien civilizations, and keep secret space stations of their own. Secret from whom? Never mind.



[edit on 14-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

@ John Lear,

Prove it. Prove the Shuttle can change its inclination or that it can rendezvous with another object that can (after all if the Shuttle can't, but an SSS can, the SSS will have to get to 51.6 to meet the Shuttle in its way to the ISS).

If you're right, it'll be easy! A video camera attached to a nice amateur-grade telescope is all you need. You'll be a hero!

Thing is, people routinely observe the ISS and the shuttle:

www.skyandtelescope.com...

business as usual. What I don't understand is why isn't JL an avid astronomer armed with a decent telescope? With his expertise in all things visible and invisible, he'd be sure to get some astounding facts from direct observations! Alas... Talk is cheap...

this was shot from a distance of 54 miles and you can almost see what brand of cereal the astronauts are carrying into space:
www.skyandtelescope.com...

Another shot of Discovery and ISS:
www.skyandtelescope.com...



[edit on 14-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
What I don't understand is why isn't JL an avid astronomer armed with a decent telescope? With his expertise in all things visible and invisible, he'd be sure to get some astounding facts from direct observations! Alas... Talk is cheap...

Exactly. Proving SSS visits is a piece of cake. Of all his claims, this one is downright testable - provable - by anybody with a grand or so to spend on equipment.

SO PROVE IT!!! You have no excuse not to do so!

I understand that starting out in astronomy can be a little hard for John. So I supply him with this link which thousands of amateur astronomers use to track the space shuttle. It contains celestial coordiantes of that space vehicle when it is in flight, so you can acquire it with your scope.

www.heavens-above.com...

And, no, there were no trips to the bogus SSS according to these observarions


Phew... Nail in the coffin of yet another bogus theory.



[edit on 14-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Of course, the next step in the escalation of ludicrous claims would be to say that both Japan and Europe are also in on the dark secrets of alien civilizations, and keep secret space stations of their own. Secret from whom? Never mind.

Thanks for the intro BS. (rimshot..........CLANG):

Russia, China, Japan and Europe all share in the secrets of alien civilizations and secret space stations but on a very high level. The middle level, which which many of us are a part of, are the ones who pay; we fight the useless wars, pay the taxes and carry the water. The lowest level are the consumers of the illegal drugs, cultivated and distributed by the upper level who use that income for their black operations.

Thanks again for the intro BS, (rimshot.....................>CLANG)

Sure John, all these are parts of a conspiracy...

Now, could you please get yourself a telescope and track the shuttle, just to prove your point? Because according to myriad observations, the stuff you claim is happening -- doesn't.