Hollywood vs. reality-Rambo’s real machine gun, and it’s not M60!

We all remember how in every part Rambo’s M60 was firing countless rounds from the never-ending ammo belt.

Ejector spitting out spent casings and de-linker breaking down the belt in seemingly endless hail of fire, all with frequent cuts to emotional slow motion scenes that emphasized Rambo’s raging revenge blasted out of the muzzle of his smoking M60.

Well, that’s Hollywood, because in the real world, with out barrel cooling, if shooting for that long, other then stoppages and ammo cooking of in the chamber, the barrel will simply overheat causing irreversible damage.

So is Rambo style machine gun shooting totally impossible in the real world?

Ironically, in this instance the real world actually caught up with Hollywood, and now there is a hand held, 7.62mm belt fed machine gun that can fire for a full minute with out barrel damage or a stoppage, and with intermittent barrel cooling it can fire a 10 thousand round belt with out a single stoppage!

What’s even more ironic is that the machine gun that can do that is Russian, and it’s called “Petcheneg”.

It’s a creatively modified version of the good old PKM, and even though it’s a tad cynical, realistically speaking now Russians can film their own Rambo 3, with one of their retired Spetznas guys finding him self in Kabul, getting all emotional about the Afghani freedom fighters (I mean terrorists), and deciding to join the fight against the US occupiers (that’ll be the premise).

Then the Russian Rambo could actually fire a 650 round belt NON STOP for a full minute, all in a single scene with out cut always, and that would be based on reality, and not Hollywood fiction.

How strange is that?!

Here are specs;

world.guns.ru...

Any machine gun if fired too long will result in damage to the barrel. There are videos of M-60s being fired for prolonged times to demonstrate durability. That's not to say that the rifling won't suffer significant erosion if sufficient cooling isn't allowed for.

Even if the Russian weapon is durable enough for 1 minute of sustained firing, you'll risk cookoffs due to the heat which will result(certainly with 10,000 rounds).

reply to post by BlueRaja


You're talking about the M60E4 that fired almost a 1,000 rounds nonstop. Awesome weapon.

In this video the shooter runs through 850 rounds. They claim you can shoot 15,000 before changing barrels, but I think that would be asking a lot from even a specially hardened barrel.

Holy crap.

That's all I have to say.

Shattered OUT...

Nice job right there man!!

*rattatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatattatatattatatatattat*

Just amazing seeing the pile off ejected cases growing

reply to post by iskander

Hate to burst your bubble here iskander but there is nothing unusual or difficult about GPMG's firing non stop for a full 60 seconds. Ever here of the phrase "the mad minute"? It's what many refer to as an ambush. Basically you set up an ambush and when an enemy formation moves into it, you rake the kill zone with everthing you have got for about 60 seconds. I personally did this many times, including with the M-60 and had no problems. Yeah the barrel ends up glowing a bit and it probably doesn't do wonders for it's service life but they don't buy these weapons to sit in the armoury and look pretty. As for the Russian claims on their wonder weapon, man if I had a dollar for everytime a Russian arms manufacturer made a boast that was innacurate or deliberately claimed out of context I wouldn't get out of bed in the mornings and go to work. Interesting piece of footage nontheless.

LEE.

This was posted a while back under the title "1 min 45sec machine gun burst and no barrel change" or something similar. I can't find it using the search option, but I'm sure someone will.

Edited to add I just found it -

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And a few more like it -

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 23-10-2007 by PaddyInf]

Sorry, meant to add that the PKM wasn't mentioned in the above threads, so I suppose this is a new find. OOPS!

However, in my links the weapon is an updated M60, so the Rambo re-make would be a bit more authentic

Errr... you do know that the m-60 as of a few years ago got a new coating that'll allow it to go for substantially longer than a minute straight?

Heck even the HK 416 (which due to it's smaller overall barrel surface area by far is more amazing) can fire a couple thousand rounds nonstop without fouling.

Now maybe some people should do their research before lauding russian improvements that are years and orders of magnitude behind western technology.

Like oh I don't know the as-val oc-14 groza sr-3 vekhr vss sniper rifle and one other russian gun all of which use a new russian subsonic armor piercing round in 9 by 39 mm (this being a 7.62 by 39 without the neck down section) These weapons are all good between 200 and 800 meters their supressors last several thousand rounds and we have NOTHING with terminal ballistics like these.

But instead I am betting we'll sit through 9000 more threads stemming from crappy press releases that are lying about a technology the west has had for half a decade or more. and as usual they will be touted as revolutionary etc.

In closing yes the Russians have some areas where they are MAJORLY ahead of us especially in the small arms field but it's a safe bet to assume that if a russian gpmg can fire for a minute straight western guns can do it for ten etc. Just because of the simple fact that our metallurgy (outside of the welding field), materials science (outside of certain ceramics), and protective coatings research industries are LIGHT YEARS ahead of eastern europes or chinas.

But at least neither of them was dumb enough to buy the striker lol so maybe our 10 minute machine guns ain't gonna do us any good mounted on 6 wheeled coffins that can be eviscerated with 35 dollars worth of 50's surplus russian technology heh.

EDIT: Especially considering for every one stryker we buy you can buy 10 or 15 of anything else worth buying. LOL

[edit on 26-10-2007 by roguetechie]

reply to post by thebozeian

Hate to burst your bubble here iskander but there is nothing unusual or difficult about GPMG's firing non stop for a full 60 seconds. Ever here of the phrase "the mad minute"? It's what many refer to as an ambush.

No bubble bursting here, “the mad minute” results in barrel damage. “Loose” barrels greatly reduce accuracy.

Yeah the barrel ends up glowing a bit and it probably doesn't do wonders for it's service life but they don't buy these weapons to sit in the armoury and look pretty.

Did you notice how your rounds began drifting after that? With some of the them dropping far shorter then the others?

As for the Russian claims on their wonder weapon, man if I had a dollar for everytime a Russian arms manufacturer made a boast that was innacurate or deliberately claimed out of context I wouldn't get out of bed in the mornings and go to work. Interesting piece of footage nontheless.

I’ll personally PayPal you a dollar if you can prove that Russians are “boasting” about “inaccurate” Petcheneg test results.

How about it? Maybe $10?

Originally posted by dbates
In this video the shooter runs through 850 rounds. They claim you can shoot 15,000 before changing barrels, but I think that would be asking a lot from even a specially hardened barrel.

that M60 E4 is from 2003...its the blackwater shootouts...heres the linky

armedforcesjournal.com...

bet they got better technology now, its been 4(nearly 5)yrs since they built that.

my favourite weapon from that page is the 76 mm high impulse weapon

now what in the hell do you use that for...wiping out small countries...governments maybe..



[edit on 28-10-2007 by Heratix]

[edit on 28-10-2007 by Heratix]

reply to post by roguetechie

Errr... you do know that the m-60 as of a few years ago got a new coating that'll allow it to go for substantially longer than a minute straight?

Originally M-60 was based on which desing? Which coating are you referring to?

SACO Defense M-60?

The M-60 got so hot that it jammed after approximately 1,500 rounds, the finish and oil coating on the hand guard caught on fire from the heat of the barrel, and the round in the chamber from when it jammed cooked off. The barrel and gas system were ruined, they were so red hot that they bent downwards under their own weight.

vids.myspace.com...

Heck even the HK 416 (which due to it's smaller overall barrel surface area by far is more amazing) can fire a couple thousand rounds nonstop without fouling.

Pardon me? How exactly is a magazine fed assault rifle can supposedly be fed with a “couple of thousand rounds” for a “non stop” firing?

I hope you meant that its action can reliable cycle a few thousand rounds prior to regular cleaning with out a stoppage, right?

AK’s have been doing it since the 40s.

Now maybe some people should do their research before lauding russian improvements that are years and orders of magnitude behind western technology.

Some sort of information would be nice instead of just vague, empty statements.

Like oh I don't know the as-val oc-14 groza sr-3 vekhr vss sniper rifle and one other russian gun all of which use a new russian subsonic armor piercing round in 9 by 39 mm (this being a 7.62 by 39 without the neck down section) These weapons are all good between 200 and 800 meters their supressors last several thousand rounds and we have NOTHING with terminal ballistics like these.

I’m not following, is that a compliment to new Russian arms developments? Because currently US arsenal simply does not have weaponry designs specifically for urban warfare.

Petcheneg by the way was designed specifically with the realities of the modern battlefield in mind, and is currently used by Spetnaz and other elite units in Chechnya.

b.t.w, talking about research and other basic firearm knowledge, 9X39 AP (SP5 /SP6) is effective out to the maximum effective range of 400 meters.

Feel free to catch up on the info right here;

www.quarry.nildram.co.uk...

But instead I am betting we'll sit through 9000 more threads stemming from crappy press releases that are lying about a technology the west has had for half a decade or more. and as usual they will be touted as revolutionary etc.

Prove it!

You have just stated that some press release lied about some technology West had for a decade, explain your self!

Naturally first you’ll have to read up on what Pethceneg actually is, and since I’ve provided the link in the first place, the natural conclusion is that you’re not interested in the discussion it self, but only in bashing of anything not pro-Western.

In closing yes the Russians have some areas where they are MAJORLY ahead of us especially in the small arms field but it's a safe bet to assume that if a russian gpmg can fire for a minute straight western guns can do it for ten etc.

A “safe bet to assume”? I bring FACTUAL information to the forum that exists to “Deny Ignorance”, and you bring “a safe bet to assume”?

Please show us which western mg similar to Petcheneg can fire non stop for ten minutes with in operating parameters with out suffering damage.

I’d like to see that.

Just because of the simple fact that our metallurgy (outside of the welding field), materials science (outside of certain ceramics), and protective coatings research industries are LIGHT YEARS ahead of eastern europes or china.

Prove it!

Let’s start right here in America.

Who made the cannon barrels for the Abrams tanks?

German Rhinemetal had to set that one up for us.

Who can make an all-metal, fully articulated thrust-vectoring ball joint?

So far we could only manage variable geometry feathers and ceramic plated deflection panels.


Who makes compressor blades that can take the punishment of sucking in the dirt from dirt strips while our pilots have to do the “walk of shame in order to pick up pen caps so the engines wont explode after sucking then in?

Similarly, who made the ceramic compressor blade coating application technique possible?

Titanium welding? Talk about metallurgy?

How about controlled implosion welding, when for example a piece of solid aluminum bar can be seamlessly “fused” with a solid copper bar?

But at least neither of them was dumb enough to buy the striker lol so maybe our 10 minute machine guns ain't gonna do us any good mounted on 6 wheeled coffins that can be eviscerated with 35 dollars worth of 50's surplus russian technology heh.

Oh man do I agree with you there man.

If you get NetFlix, order up a movie called “Pentagon Wars”, it’s a HBO special movie about the real story behind the development of the Bradley.

Striker is the same story.

reply to post by Heratix


I still fell that I have to address all that blackwater nonsense.

that M60 E4 is from 2003...its the blackwater shootouts...heres the linky

As we all know, Blackwater is a private and most legally protected and corrupted mercenary force in modern history.

While other mercenary forces operated just as brutally for ages, they have done so with out any legal backing and with out the massive and illegally obtained budgeting care of US tax payers.

Unlike other mercenaries, Blackwater hired guns can do what ever they want with the full backing of our Government.

The same typical nonsense applies to the M60 E4 hype as well.

It’s all about the contracts, and who’s going to cash in on them.

Here’s the reality of how it really is;

In 2001, the Navy and U.S. SOCOM initiated development for a new 7.62mm machine gun in response to complaints that the M60 E4 was chronically unreliable. The M60 is notorious for the reputation of being the most hated gun in the U.S. Army.

www.military.com...

This is what our fighting boys really want, a good, accurate, reliable weapon, and not some mercenary hot shot babble;

Lighter than the cumbersome M240, more durable than the notorious M60s, and invulnerable to an array of harsh weather conditions, the MK48 passed rigorous requirements from the front lines to become SOCOM's dream gun.

I can’t wait when people will actually take a look at Petcheneg and compare it to the M240 to see just what the Russian learned from over a decade of urban conflict in Chechnya, because Petcheneg is the sum of all those lessons.

Originally posted by thebozeian
reply to post by iskander

 

Hate to burst your bubble here iskander but there is nothing unusual or difficult about GPMG's firing non stop for a full 60 seconds. Ever here of the phrase "the mad minute"? It's what many refer to as an ambush.
LEE.

the "mad minute" originated in WW2 when british soldiers fired at least 30 rounds downrange accuratly in 1 minute or less thats 3 stripper clips of .303 british i cant find ammo 4 mine or id try it just letting u no not trying to b an ass just letting u no


[edit on 30-10-2007 by apocalypticpyro]

reply to post by apocalypticpyro


Order from here;

www.cheaperthandirt.com...

You'll have to file some paperwork at first, but from there o0n it's like clock work.

Remember though, depending on what state you are in, if you are purchasing (or possessing) more then one thousand rounds of ammo (mixed or not), it has to be registered as an arsenal.

Have fun at the range!