Black Moday!! Stocks Plunge in wake of terrible economic data!

reply to post by ProfTom



Did you seriously come here to piss on the OP? is that your only purpose? its fairly easy to see this thread isn't "the worlds Gonna end" but they did expect the market to crash...

hell the crash in 87 was just 500 points. Though we need a 1000-1500 pt drop to be a crash now Most people don't know enough about the markets to include inflation and the fact that the market has topped 10,000. So to jump on someone who was worried the same things that happened post 9-11 and in 87 were going to occur on Monday, just for sharing their belief with others is asinine at best.


I don't know where people get the idea that this is a news site or something; but it is not... This is a community organized to discuss/debate the topics members find intriguing.

If you have such a problem with the doom and gloom stuff, don't read it.

Or by the feel of your post, check out another forum and leave the conspiracies to us idiots...

If there is a big crash, won't the price of housing drop? I hope that the price of houses will drop. That's the great thing about this site, is that we can express our views and talk about our psychic visions and our conspiracy theories, with an open mind. Sometimes, I'm so accurate in my visions of the future, that it scares me. I was more open about my visions before 9-11, but since then, I'm afraid to say what I see, and I don't want anyone to think that I'm involved in any way. I think that some of us do have a special gift. I don't know why I see some things before they happen. Continue to exercise your brain. With me, it's like the more I try to see, the more I see!

While Kimberly Clark is commonly associated with their brand name paper products...'Kleenex', 'Depends', 'Huggies', etc...their healthcare/patientcare division provides a complete line of disposable bio-medical products...everything from needles to cathaters, to oral care systems and skin cream...worlds largest supplier of surgical masks & gowns.

The only reason I'm up on KC's medical division is because they just (last week), expressed interest in a patent I hold for a disposable nasal insert

Black Monday might have arrived back in August if world central banks hadn't made the largest short term liquidity pump in history. Along with rate cuts, new schemes to keep a lid-on the credit market are being devised on a daily basis. Underlying fundamentals support dire predictions...the question is timing. Unprecidented Fed & Treasury intervention in [authoritarian] free market enterprise make it a bit difficult to call a top here.


*I do not own KC shares, and this not an endorsement*...just a little shamless braggadocio

reply to post by OBE1


But isn't everyone else even more screwed than America, especially the export-dependent economies (which is practically everyone EXCEPT America, last time I checked)?

reply to post by OBE1


Your absolutely right OBE1. The FED prevented what should have happened. The liquidity pump will only prolong the the inevitable. We need the correction, next time the FED should let the Market take care of things itself. This is a market based economy, they should let it work sometimes.

If the FED cuts 50 bps next week at their meeting, I call on Bernanke being investigated for being in the back pockets of Wall Street big wigs. Once they come out and praise his leadership, it will be pretty damn obvious where his energies or directed.

I'm glad i was wrong about monday, but i still can't shake this foreboding feeling. It's really weighing on me. I guess it doesn't help knowing that the fundamentals haven't changed... but my anxiety has reached a bifurcation point. This needs to be resolved. Something is going to happen.

I guess ill just have to keep telling myself that it is psychosomatic...

Originally posted by uberarcanist

But isn't everyone else even more screwed than America, especially the export-dependent economies (which is practically everyone EXCEPT America, last time I checked)?

I assume you are referring to a Global slowdown, as opposed to a severe-short-term market correction. Don't know uberarC...but even the IMF was indicating last Spring that world economies could decouple from a US downturn. On the other hand, they were also saying that the US housing market had probably bottomed, with little global spill-over.

I'm pretty darn far from being a macro-economist, but common sense kinda dictates that a broke-down debtor with no savings, limited production, and a depreciating housing market (ATM)...might not fare as well as more productive expanding economies. Having spewed all that, we still carry the big-stick. Last Spring I was pretty sure we weren't gonna bomb Iran...I got lucky. But now that we're taking-on water and listing hard to the port-side...if Da Boyz fail to hold the Good-Ship-Lolly-Pop together until elections 08...I think action against Iran is in-play.

Originally posted by traderonwallst

If the FED cuts 50 bps next week at their meeting, I call on Bernanke being investigated for being in the back pockets of Wall Street big wigs.

Good chance we're gonna see that rate cut Trader. I also think that in order to correct the situation, congress should give Ron Paul about ten minutes alone with Bernanke in the back room....oh, did I forget to mention the Texas cattle-prod?


Edit: SP

[edit on 24-10-2007 by OBE1]

Here we go again. (I TOLD YOU ALL IT WAS NOT OVER...JUST BEGINNING) Markets down huge again today...Merrill with huge write downs. Mortgage insures are just melting away, RDN, MTG, PMI, ABK, MBI. Countrywide CFC Financial well below the $18 level where Bank of America invested $2 billion. Listen, California is on fire. Their economy makes up about 12% of our GDP. I am not a doom and gloom predictor, despite what some of you say. My targets are 1325 on the S&P (this can be intra-day), and a close below 12,000 on the DOW. Eventually the FED will run out ammunition if they keep responding to what Wall Street Demands!!!!!

When are people going to realize that the fact that the FED needs to keep saving the market means something. Why are we afraid to admit a slow down? I have been all in favor of a falling US$, this has actually been one of the best things for the economy. There is just no reason that we HAVE to have a strong dollar. Yeah, its nice, but it allows our companies to compete over seas, and better compete here at home.

The housing markets, foreclosures, rising credit card defaults, rising auto loan defaults......I could go on all day naming bad things. Iraq, Iran, Oil, the democrats potentially taking over the white house.......

Oh yeah, have not thought about that yet??? Just wait. Charlie Rangel is drooling over the potential of $100 billion in new taxes. Go ahead....vote democrat, just remember...I warned ya!!!!!!! Talk about a recession. Privatization of health care, a reduction in military spending (leading to job losses), increased taxes....and not just on the upper class like they want you to believe.

I have to get back to work ....Maybe I will respond to everyone a bit later.

Originally posted by sp00n1
I'm glad i was wrong about monday, but i still can't shake this foreboding feeling. It's really weighing on me. I guess it doesn't help knowing that the fundamentals haven't changed... but my anxiety has reached a bifurcation point. This needs to be resolved. Something is going to happen.

I guess ill just have to keep telling myself that it is psychosomatic...

I totally understand what you are saying, and I rely on my intuition. If you have a terrible "foreboding" feeling, then something "IS" probably going to happen soon. The last time I had that "foreboding" feeling was right before Hurricane Katrina. I didn't know why I had that terrible feeling, I knew that something was going to happen, but I didn't know what it was. Now, I know that it was Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath. I have learned to rely on my intuition!

Originally posted by traderonwallst
I have been all in favor of a falling US$, this has actually been one of the best things for the economy. There is just no reason that we HAVE to have a strong dollar. Yeah, its nice, but it allows our companies to compete over seas, and better compete here at home.

The weak dollar is bad for a number of reasons.

First, it does nothing to help our trade deficit. 40% of our trade deficit is from imported oil. Oil is priced in dollars. As the dollar falls, oil prices rise, and hence the trade deficit grows. Additionally, another 20% of our trade deficit is from chinese imports. The chinese currency is pretty much locked to the dollar. As the dollar falls, so does chinese currency. Consequently, this does nothing to help the trade deficit.

Second, a weaker dollar equals less purchasing power. Everybody that gets paid in dollars has suffered an income loss, they just dont realize it yet. The fact that WALMART is cutting prices proves that consumer spending is falling.

Third, a weak dollar makes it harder and harder to sell our debt that we need to finance all of this ridiculous crap our government pulls. I would love to see them stop spending money, but i dont want them to be forced to shut down the entire government because they have no funding.

A weak dollar also causes foreign reserves to diversify out of the dollar, which only weakens the dollar further.

reply to post by sp00n1


Correction time!

First off, imported oil used be sold in what was called Petro-dollars. These dollars were pegged to the US dollar, you are correct there. BUT recently, oil exporting countries have been asking people to pay for oil in either the Euro or in the YEN.
Secondly, the Chinese currency is not pegged to our currency, it does float. They have taken steps to prevent it from floating. Measures have been taken by governments around the world to force them to allow it to rise, due to the unfair advantage they are manipulating.
Thirdly, Everybody in the US gets paid in US$, not everyone gets paid in the US$. This allows our goods to be a cheaper alternative around the world.
Fourthly, the apparent pay cut we have been forced to take is temporary. As the US$ will eventually rise and most likely over take other currencies again, we get an apparent pay hike. It works both ways, but a typical arguement from liberals using their baseline budgeting ideas. (An expected spending hike of 10% only comes in at 8%, they feel this rise in spending is actually a spending cut. Utternonsense and ridiculous.)
Fifthly, making it harder to sell our debt to foregin nations is not a bad thing. Do you really want to wake up one morning and find out we are now owned by someone else? It works like this. If foreign investors do not want out debt, demand falls. The price of thses bonds will also fall with that, increasing the amoutn of return they have to pay to sell these bonds. That in turn makes them more attractive here at home. And something special might happen to those investors who buy US Debt. If they use US$ to buy them and the US$ appreciates, they see double returns. They make their...% return gauranteed, plus now they have a currency return on their purchase. If they borrwoed in another currency to make that purchase...it increases the effect even more (See Carry Trade).
Lastly, foregin reserves to diversify out of the dollar. Didn't you attempt to make theat point already?

Trust me......there will come a point when the weakened dollar will be bad for the economy. At that point, and only at that point will the US goevernment act.

Instead look for foreign countries, especially Japan to begin acting. Their export industry relies heavily on the US consumer. If they see fgalling sales here in the US, especially due to currency fluctuations, they will flood the market with Yen, bringing down the value. THey have done this before. Japan is a coutnry that puts social economic prevelance ahead of profits and would not allow their economy and domestic consumer to suffer despite what it would do to the bottom line of their biggest Companies.
And now........you know the rest of the story.

The dollar will be essentially worthless by year end. Expect much higher oil prices. $1,000 gold is only the beginning.

expect widespread panic in financials.