Chemtrails: Debunking the Peristent Contrail myth

ok i just saw somthing right now and i couldent see the craft but i could only see the chemtrail and the craft was only in my view for like 1min. and it was way above the clouds
i called my stepdad who used to work for the pentagon and now works for the D.O.D and he said it might be a "black" plane and i told him i couldent see the color and he said look it up online so i am here asking
thank you in advance
could someone please tell me what this could be

yesterday, I counted nine aircraft in the sky at one time, in our little valley.

Yeah, they're contrails.

reply to post by stompk


Where do you live?

Without pinpointing it exactly, could you link us to google maps showing the general area?

I ask because I'd like to see what goes on around your area in terms of aviation.

Originally posted by blowfishdl
I know the difference between that and a real jet too because I have seen them flying directly next to each other with one spraying and one not. I have also seen on SEVERAL occasions the trail be turned on and turned back off leaving only one line that begins and ends within sight as the jet flys away with no trace. Explain that gorgeous.

Sure. Read up in my post above about the differences in height you could be observing without actually realising it.

reply to post by neformore


I understand how a difference in height can affect the appearance of "jettrails" lets call them. However, they aren't making drastic elevation changes, and if they were it would still be a gradual increase or decrease in the trail. You can tell which ones are real and which ones are fake quite easily. Real ones have a trail that is constantly fading behind them. The reason behind it is that "contrails" are really just millions of tiny ice crystals and as they begin to evaporate back into air (which doesn't take long) they leave a fading trail behind a jet. As the jet moves, the trail follows. Example...

===============Jet
[bluesky][bluesky]===============Jet
[bluesky][bluesky][bluesky]=============Jet

..And this makes sense because as it's being forced out of the jet engine, the time lapse is in synch.

However, the chemtrails are much different.

==============================================Jet

Without the fading effect.

Eventually the chemtrails turn into giant mass clouds of bright "printer paper" white, which cover the sky. Tell me babe, how do ice crystals transform, then expand, then blanket the sky for hours at a time without evaporating?


[edit on 23-10-2007 by blowfishdl]

Why even use airplanes? They are visible to anyone, and according to the chemtrail people... it's obvious what they are doing. That's not very covert now is it? If you wanted to put something in the atmosphere, why not load a large payload of whatever it is into some rockets and detonate them in the upper atmosphere. Let the jet stream disperse the chemical. You can launch them from out at sea, away from prying eyes. Since apparently the conspiracy is global, Russia or any other nation is really not going to make a comotion about it, since they would be doing it too. Makes more sense then planes to disperse an agent in the atmosphere globally. If we detonate a nuclear bomb in the atmosphere, the jetstream would spread the radioactive fallout... same principle. Larger area covered, no covert planes needed. There are more effective and covert ways then fleets of planes spraying the skies to disperse chemicals into the atmosphere.





[edit on 23-10-2007 by b309302]

Yesderday, in the same area, I saw two planes leaving "persistent contrails" and one plane leave a quickly-disappearing contrail. All of the planes were at a high altitude, although I have no idea if there were any differences in altitude between the planes.

Also, about twenty minutes ago, I witnessed a high-altitude jet start to leave a "persistent contrail" while over the valley I live in, only to leave a normal, disappearing contrail after passing over the valley. I couldn't help but think that the plane turned off whatever it was spraying after it flew over the population center.

By the way, the plane was at cruising altitude the entire time I watched it.

Originally posted by b309302
Why use airplanes? They are visible to anyone, and according to the chemtrail people... it's obvious what they are doing. That's not very covert now is it? If you wanted to put something in the atmosphere, why not load a large payload of whatever it is into some rockets and detonate them in the upper atmosphere. Let the jet stream disperse the chemical. You can launch them from out at sea, away from prying eyes. Since apparently the conspiracy is global, Russia or any other nation is really not going to make a comotion about it, since they would be doing it too. Makes more sense then planes to disperse an agent in the atmosphere globally. If we detonate a nuclear bomb in the atmosphere, the jetstream would spread the radioactive fallout... same principle. Larger area covered, no covert planes needed. There are more effective and covert ways then fleets of planes spraying the skies to disperse chemicals into the atmosphere.
[edit on 23-10-2007 by b309302]

Listen buddy if you think a missile exploding in the air is less covert then a simple airplane that looks like it's just flying by then you have some re-thinking to do. It wouldn't even do the same job because the chemicals would be dispursed in an extremely centralized point - precisely where the missile explodes. It doesn't make more sense, and it isn't a larger area covered.

That is normal. I live in Las Vegas, it's surrounded by mountains. Think about this... planes flying over mountains. Air is more turbulent over the peaks. Anyone flying over mountains knows that. Then you get into a flat part, less turbulent air. Which one do you think is more suited for the formation of contrails? This is why they start over the city, and dissapear again when the plane is back over the mountains. The turbulent air over the mountains is dispersing them much mire quickly then the calmer air in the valley.

Actually I think the entire idea of chemtrails is ridicuouls. There are scientific explanations of what is going on. On top of that there are far more effective ways to disperse chemicals then airplanes. Personally I am more concerned about what is in my breakfast cereal than chemtrails. To each his own... by the way a missle exploding in the middle of the ocean is a little less covert then fleets of planes flying over head spraying things. Apparently even you see them... now your going to tell me how covert the operation is?!? LOL So anyway if you feel missles are not a good way to release chemical/biological agents, you might want to tell that to the DOD, they seem to differ with you. We equip warheads with chemical/biological weapons, not planes. In the gulf war we were worried about SCUDS equipped with chemical warheads, not fleets of planes spraying the troops.



[edit on 23-10-2007 by b309302]

Originally posted by b309302
That is normal. I live in Las Vegas, it's surrounded by mountains. Think about this... planes flying over mountains. Air is more turbulent over the peaks. Anyone flying over mountains knows that. Then you get into a flat part, less turbulent air. Which one do you think is more suited for the formation of contrails? This is why they start over the city, and dissapear again when the plane is back over the mountains. The turbulent air over the mountains is dispersing them much mire quickly then the calmer air in the valley.

Nobody even said anything about mountains you fool. I live in a valley where there are only hills. Hills do not differentiate the atmosphere to the point of contrail/nocontrail. Turbulence has nothing to do with it either. It is the different chemical compounds and atmosphere absorbency due to temperature both associated with different levels of the atmosphere.

Actually I think the entire idea of chemtrails is ridicuouls. There are scientific explanations of what is going on. On top of that there are far more effective ways to disperse chemicals then airplanes. Personally I am more concerned about what is in my breakfast cereal than chemtrails. To each his own... by the way a missle exploding in the middle of the ocean is a little less covert then fleets of planes flying over head spraying things. Apparently you see them... how covert is that?!? LOL. So anyway if you feel missles are not a good way to release chemical/biological agents, you might want to tell that to the DOD, they seem to differ with you.

That's great that you think it's rediculous. Do you believe it's impossible? Improbable I'll give you that, but impossible? No. Your rediculous for thinking blowing up a bomb filled with chemicals in the ocean is the best way to dispurse them into the atmosphere. Uhhh okay?? We don't even know what the chemicals are for specifically, so nobody really 100% is trying to argue that they want it to be exposed to humans. BTW do you have any idea how many missile tracking systems surround the globe? Hundreds of Thousands! Even civilians own missile tracking systems!

So let's summarize your beliefs. Chemtrails are rediculous, bombs are more covert than silent planes hundreds of feet into the sky, and blowing up a bomb filled with chemicals into the ocean would be more effective in either dispursing the agents into the sky or affecting the population. Las Vegas would've been my first guess at where you live.


EDIT: The department of defense doesn't plan to use them covertly if they use them at all, we will blatantly bomb someone with them and say we did it.

[edit on 23-10-2007 by blowfishdl]

No your right okay. Fleets of planes (including commerical airliners) are flying over you dispersing chemicals all around you. The pilots of the American Airlines flight over you right now are flipping a little switch that is releasing chemicals over your house. All of the employees of every major airline are in the coverup. The airport employees who load the chemicals into the plane are in on it. The people who transport the chemicals are in on it. The people who make the chemicals are in on it. The radar operators are in on it. The FAA is in on it. The NTSB is in on it. Even the passangers are in on it because apparently they don't mind flying in cirlces for hours over your house, adding hours onto a 3 hour flight. As a matter of fact everyone is in on it but you... your right, you found out our secret plans... that's not bordering on paranoia or anything...

Edit: I never said I believed they were detonating anything. Just gave an example of what would work better then planes. (and I gave an example of a missle in the upper atmosphere not a bomb in the ocean). I think the whole thing is ridiculous.




[edit on 23-10-2007 by b309302]

Don't forget me and my meteorological friends - amateur and professional ....

btw are we agreed then that the conventional explanation for persistent contrails, and the period of time over which they've been observed, cannot be debunked?

[edit on 23-10-2007 by Essan]

I agree, there is no evidence of chemtrails that can not be explained away by science. Your explanation of persistent contrails seems to be the most logical argument.

[edit on 23-10-2007 by b309302]

Back to the mountains theory...the trail I saw today started about halfway between the mountains, then ended, from what I could tell, somewhere over the mountains. In other words, it started about midway over the valley.

[edit on 23-10-2007 by Seeker67]

[edit on 23-10-2007 by Seeker67]

Originally posted by blowfishdl
Eventually the chemtrails turn into giant mass clouds of bright "printer paper" white, which cover the sky. Tell me babe, how do ice crystals transform, then expand, then blanket the sky for hours at a time without evaporating?

The same way that clouds do. Think about it.

The jet fuel combustion produces carbon dioxide and water vapour. The extra water vapour pushes the air past saturation point, and it condenses into ice crystals.

This condensed air does not remain static, and if conditions are correct it will also cool the surrounding air, which in turn reaches saturation point making either a persistent contrail or a larger cloud depending on the temperatures of the surrounding air.

I don't understand how this is a difficult concept for people to understand. Arguing against persistent contrails and temperature inversions is arguing with how clouds form. The only difference is that the jet engine acts as a local catalyst causing the condensation, instead of water vapour rising on warm air.

BTW, you keep calling me "babe". If I was a woman I'd find that patronising, as it is, my avatar is female, and I'm most definitely not. Shes there because she is a babe.

I don't recall seeing contrails persisting for hours and spreading out into a wispy soup 15-20 years ago. Does anybody?

reply to post by neformore


hahaha! You might wanna re-think your ava. then, sorry about that dude. Obviously if you put a picture in your profile of a female ppl are going to think your female.

Anyways, your theory does make sense of how the contrails can form clouds. I believe that is possible.

Did we ever get an explanation for red colored trails? What about paralell lines, crosshatch lines, and patterns of such?

When I was in highschool I began believing the whole chemtrail spliff. I observed them every day they were out, and when they were out there were tons of trails. Days they were not, there are no lines. Even if a jet flys by if it wasnt the certain day there was nothing left behind. Given that could be due to atmospheric conditions, but doubtful at the altitudes in which they were flying. One flew about 100 ft. above my school leaving a bright white trail. THAT my friend is not a contrail, becuase it is not cool enough for them to form at 100ft.

ps. *slightly unrelated* While observing chemtrails I spotted a ufo flying with one of the planes and then dematerialize next to them!

Also, I've never seen a "persistent contrail" that appeared to grow. They always just spread out and get thinner, so the explanation of them cooling the surrounding atmosphere and thereby forming more ice crystals doesn't seem sensible to me.

Here is the big question, was anyone really looking at what contrails did over period of hours before this topic came out? 20 years ago were you really watching them as closely as you do now that you read about chemtrails? I will say honestly, I have observed contrails closer now that I have read this, and I do notice that they seem to turn into whispy clouds on some occasions. However, I personally am not going to claim they didn't do that before, because I never knew to look for it before this topic came up. I only really noticed it a year ago after I read about chemtrails. Apparently the chemtrail theory has been going on a lot longer then a year. I didn't notice anything different before I read it. I think it is just a matter of everyday things being hilighted that makes you notice them more now then before. To be totally fair.. my apologies to blowfishdl. I was out of line, not very nice of me. Sorry. I will agree that it is possible, just not probable.



[edit on 23-10-2007 by b309302]