Are Parrots Sentient?

I had this cat that would sit on my dresser, facing towards the mirror and watch what I was doing in the room behind her. If I held up one of the cat's toys behind her, she would turn around to try and get it. Otherwise, she would just sit and watch. I think the cat had the whole mirror thing totally figured out. 'Probably' didn't understand the physics of the mirror, but did know the difference between reflected image and reality.

Not wanting to die has nothing to do with being sentient. Death is a natural part of life and can not be avoided(att least not yet).

Something is sentient based on is perception and self-awareness. It has to have conceptual thinking and to not do everything based on instincts. I do not have a parrot but studies on parrots, such as Alex the African grey, or Victor show that birds can understand what they are saying.

It had been mentioned in this thread earlier that the construction of art may be a possible condition that separates us from other animals. This is a valid and very interesting point. Don’t get me wrong, I believe that we are in fact different than other animals and hey we are special in or own right. However, art is something we have shared and in fact still do with other living creatures.

Mozart had a companion that was both comical, intelligent, and capable of producing songs that were in his time beyond his ability to fully recognize and comprehend. Mozart based his own musical compositions on the complexity of the songs that his pet European Starling created. Mozart was able to recognize that the bird would play along with him interrupting his music and then it would improvise on top of it creating its own variations. Of course people in his time thought he was a wack job. Especially after the bird died and he had a more elaborate funeral for it than his deceased wife. Mozart theorized that the bird was creating notes that were too complex and fast for him to hear. It was not until the creation of audio recordings that we were able to come to terms with the fact that Mozart was right on with his findings.

www.starlingtalk.com...

Americans have there own love affair with the Starling- We digged them so much that in the early nineteen hundreds we thought it would be cool to import them and release them in flight at the end of our Shakespearean festivals just like our native European friends do. What a grand idea! What started out as a few hundred birds has now turned into millions of Starlings that range from the east all the way to the west coast and into parts of Canada. They do have pretty songs though and they do a great job imitating car alarms and cell phones, so at least there is some entertainment value for you on those lonely concrete streets where the only other living life form is hanging out in a tree watching you with a song that you can only hear and comprehend part of…

www.uh.edu...

heres a smart bird enjoy!

media.animal.discovery.com...

Originally posted by Peregrine
It had been mentioned in this thread earlier that the construction of art may be a possible condition that separates us from other animals. This is a valid and very interesting point.

So, now it's art that sets us apart from our furry and feathered friends in the intelligence department? Really think so? Then check this out:

Why Cats Paint

This is a very old thread. But then, I am new here and this thread is new to me.

Why do we put ourselves at the top of the heap, that only we are the classifiable sentients?

Those who wrote that parrots (or other creatures for that matter) are not sentient and without that 'self awareness' came only to that conclusion because they never lived with parrot together with this overwhelming arrogance of themselves.

I have lived with flighted African Grey Parrots, first Tinkerbell in Taiwan and now with Riamfada in Oman.

Tinkerbell had conversations with me. Using words in context.

I have taken them outdoors to the mountains and parks to fly about.

Even Yingshiong, a white rumped shama songbird, showed awareness of himself and the world about him. He loved to preen by the mirror, and when I gave him the recall cue that he seen via the mirror, he would turn around to fly to me.

I have cats that join us outdoors for walks, including walking in the wadi and in tide pools by the ocean.

They do all that because I give to them the respect and dignity due to fellow sentients that they are.

If you think them to be stupid without awareness, then of course, what you set in your mind will be fixed in reality for yourself.

Indeed, your choice to deprive yourself of magic in life. But you should do as you see fit.

Since I am new here, I cannot upload the URLs to those webpages with photos and videos that back what I wrote above.

A Google search on me and parrot will lead you to those sites.


Warmest regards

Shanlung
山 龍

Story I heard about a friend of a friend who has an African Gray:

She had taught her bird to say, among other things, "where are you going?" whenever she left for work in the morning. Like all African grays, it also had picked up a lot of other words and happily chattered away all the time. One day, however, when this woman came home from work, the parrot actually asked her, "where have you been?"

She never taught the bird to say that, but it had learned and understood the meaning and context of the words "where" and "you," and added the words "have" and "been" to the sentence, in a grammatically proper form, replacing the words "are" and "going." It could have only done this if it understood the meaning of the words and the proper context in which to use them. Anyway, she was floored.

I've played with African grays as well, and they are simply amazing in their linguistic abilities.

reply to post by intrepid


Well, you obviously weren't informed.

My mother died in 2008, my brother was 4 years old, and he was perfectly aware of every fact of what happened, from how she died to that she is no long existing because of what underlying medical causes happened, he also knows not to run in front of cars, because he will die and no longer exist.

Pretty self-aware.

Also, let me elaborate some more.

He's also stated he doesn't want to be alive without his mother, which is pretty damn self-aware in my opinion.

He has since recovered from our loss, greatly.



[edit on 30-4-2010 by Revolution-2012]

I will not even talk of parrots.

Even little sparrows showed me of their understanding of our world.

I was in the city of Chiayi in Taiwan, and having lunch in the university canteen after taking my Tinkerbell to fly at the ground there.

The canteen had this sliding glass door activated by motion sensor set above the door. In the canteen, there were lots of left overs, strands of noodles, rice , food left on the table.

The sparrows were flying in to feast. Then there was a time with no humans walking through the doors. To my surprise, a sparrow flew up and in front of the motion sensor and hovered there. The doors slide open, and a whole bunch of them flew back outside followed by that door opener sparrow.



Warmest regards

Shanlung
山 龍

To answer the question "Are parrots self-aware" you must first consider that birds are all about 'display' and so pay great attention to their plummage, this is more commonly seen as 'vanity'. In that case being self-aware is self explanatory... you are aware of 'self' and birds pay great attention to looking their best for a number of reasons, to attract a mate, to ward off interloper birds but most of all they depend on the functionality of their feathers for flight.
So... are birds 'self-aware'? The answer to that question has to be yes, else why pay so much attention to detail in their feathers. (Not discounting the fact that feathers are very complex piece of bioengineering, look at one close up under a microscope and you will see how complex their structure is and why the bird pays so much attention to their perfectness).

Are birds intelligent? Well, again this question can be answered by a bird itself... take a look at this video and decide for yourself if bird really are intelligent and how great that intelligence is...

About Alex www.stig.netne.net...

The link opens a page on my website, click on 'play video' to see a video of Alex the african grey counting, naming colours, textures and learning how to operate a video player.

My parrot knows when I am going out and insists on coming with me (not always practical but I do take him out with me) he also knows when i'm going for a shower and insists on sharing that experience too. He can count, ask for things and understands that the reflection in the mirror is him.

Originally posted by LifeInDeath
Story I heard about a friend of a friend who has an African Gray:

She had taught her bird to say, among other things, "where are you going?" whenever she left for work in the morning. Like all African grays, it also had picked up a lot of other words and happily chattered away all the time. One day, however, when this woman came home from work, the parrot actually asked her, "where have you been?"

I came home to My African Grey parrot and she squeezed my finger quite hard. I said to her why did you do that?
She said,"Just playing with you."

On another occasion she did the same thing to a stranger.

One time I was tapping her on the beak with a plastic water
bottle and she said,Stop IT.

I taught her about a dozen words which she used to communicate like Alex the Parrot. She would put her head down and say ,Scractch me. If she saw something she wanted she would say ,Toy,Try That or Want That. She would say,Go Back Shoulder.She knew about 50 other words she would use appropriately. My Quaker parrot would squawk constantly and the African Grey would say,Squawk,Squawk,Squawk,Shut Up Roky,

Recently I had a little Caique parrot who was sitting on his open cage door and saw me drinking some tea. He said,Want that,Step Up,Step Up,Step Up.
He would say Night Night when it was evening. If he saw some one leaving he would say Bye Bye.

Parrots are amazing creatures.
Some of them are very loving too.

Originally posted by shanlung

They do all that because I give to them the respect and dignity due to fellow sentients that they are.

If you think them to be stupid without awareness, then of course, what you set in your mind will be fixed in reality for yourself.

Indeed, your choice to deprive yourself of magic in life. But you should do as you see fit.

Best post yet on this thread IMO!

I treat my cats the same way and everyone is amazed at the level of communication between us. Many swear they can hear my current cat try to say my first name. Keep in mind that no other animal has the same vocal equipment we humans do, so all they can do is try. Also amazes friends to watch me say "mouse?" to the cat, to which she says "mou" (can't pronounce an "s"?), and goes out the door to look for one.

The other thing I've noticed is "childish behavior" where when the cat gets scolded or doesn't get her way, she has to go mess with something she absolutely knows she's not supposed to - just to get attention (or is it to get even?).

Glad I came back to this thread to read the above and your later post about the sparrows and the electronic door.

Originally posted by Flinx
news.bbc.co.uk...

I've seen evidence before that parrots are able to put together human language, but this seems to go above and beyond.

So, if an "animal" can actually speak English (not just repeating) doesn't that qualify them as a sentient creture? Wouldn't this mean that we have AT LEAST two intelligent species on this planet?

Didn't read the whole thread. So apologies if my comments are repeats.

I grew up with parrots and cockatoos. Our best talkers were a Yellow Nape and an African Grey. Both used "Single" words for wants. But I don't know if that counts for "Putting together" speech.

Here a video of a cockatoo that proves birds can have rhythm. (Search YouTube "snowball the dancing cockatoo" for several other songs)

www.youtube.com...

Edward Slayton

Human are known to commit suicide by cop in order to send one last message to government. This is akin to the self-immolation of Budhist monks. We think of these acts as uniquely human, and even among the highest order of human communication. I know from experience that a lowly common pigeon, scourge of many cities, is capable of suicide by cop.

In 1972, I was refueling trucks for the outfit that delivered newspapers in Phoenix, AZ. When not fueling trucks, I was assigned to install wire mesh over the rain channels on the roof, which were home to hundreds of pigeons. One day, when that job was nearly done, I was fueling a truck, and I noticed one pigeon pacing around the front of the truck. Somehow, I perceived (telepathically?) that the pigeon was despondent. It occurred to me that it might be praparing to stand in front of the truck tire as I drove away from the pump. After fueling, I climbed into the cab, drove about 5 feet, and got out to see if the pigeon was still there. It was flattened behing the front tire. So this pigeon found a way to communicate to me. Its suicide meant, "You're killing us by destroying our nests. Please stop."

I believe an animals capacity for communication is a function of the complexity of its society. Solitary animals have little need to communicate with others of their species. Animals that live in packs, herds, flocks, etc., need to know each other as individuals. I believe they have names for each other, and complex histories of interacting with each other. If they lack the ability to make complex sounds, they compensate with gestures. Dogs, for example, have a complex vocabulary of facial expressions.

Human unwillingness to learn the languages of other species is an expression of our own insecurity. We are the bullies of the animal kingdom, and bullying is an expression of insecurity. We fear that other animals may be wiser than we are. We are driving most of them into extension, and we convince ourselves that it doesn't matter because they are only dumb animals. So we pretend that they lack awareness, intellect, emotion and empathy.

The next time you hear a roost of starlings, compare their chatter to that of a group of human children after lights out at a summer camp. There are many bird sound recordings available on the internet. Try playing some of them back at ½, ¼ or ⅛ normal speed. Try it with a species that spends a lot of time in groups. Try it with humming birds; what sounds like a single click to our ears may be a whole sentence. There are several decent free audio editing programs.

I have been away from this forum for a long time. At time of my posting here, I could not include URLs such as that of my kitty wading in the ocean off Oman. I left that beautiful country about 4 years now.

For those who like to see kitty wading in ocean, and parrot flying about



Dommie final visit to ocean Ramadan 2010 & unsheduled Riamfada free flight

We have two parrots. One is in the habit of mimicking the other or the dog to such an extent that we yell at the other parrot or the dog to hush. Then you know what the mimicking trouble make does? He laughs. The other parrot says no it wasn't me and then a bunch of arguing in parrotese ensues. The dog does nothing. I don't know if this is a sign of sentience or not but it sure is hilarious.

reply to post by junglejake


I had a similar thing happen with my first budgies, before one died it was sleeping on the bottom of the cage (I dont know how it happened I was out that day, and I was just told this by my brother), it died before I got home that day, that night the other one was running all over the bottom of the cage, I think it was looking for the other, it gave up after awhile. but it seems to show some sort of bond or almost mourning

reply to post by Flinx


I think that they may be, its very hard to tell with animals, some may respond to test that others wont.
If you have heard of Alex the african grey parrot, he was able to learn over 150 words and appeard to be able to use them correctly, as if he understood them like people do.He was able to do this for other scientists not just the reasearchers, this does not prove they are sentient though but very intelligent so I would not be supprised if they were
www.economist.com...