Analog TV bands and HAARP?

Interesting topic. I never knew about the Russian HAARP. Thanks for the pics snoopyuk.

I wander what will happen to someone, if they transmit something with an analog signal after the big switch.

I think the Government is up to something. Why else would they go through all this trouble. There giving us $40 certificates. That scares me more then anything. They never gives us money without wanting something in return.

Novus' question and the response got me thinking. (Sometimes that doesn't happen). Broadcasters must go digital. This does not mean you have to have cable. How do they broadcast the digital signal over the "air". Would not the digital information have to be contained inside a radio frequency? And each channel would still need some sort of frequency or transport method of getting this digital signal to us.

I know they already do it cause I can get High Definition with a rabbit ear antenna. But I don't know any more than that.

As to what Tvs are and are not digital, If you have a TV with a "High Definition Tuner" you have a digital TV. Other wise you most likely do not.
They sell Receiver/Converters to get the digital signal and make it usable for your Analog tvs.

Mtmind

Originally posted by mtmind
Novus' question and the response got me thinking. (Sometimes that doesn't happen). Broadcasters must go digital. This does not mean you have to have cable. How do they broadcast the digital signal over the "air". Would not the digital information have to be contained inside a radio frequency? And each channel would still need some sort of frequency or transport method of getting this digital signal to us.

I know they already do it cause I can get High Definition with a rabbit ear antenna. But I don't know any more than that.

As to what Tvs are and are not digital, If you have a TV with a "High Definition Tuner" you have a digital TV. Other wise you most likely do not.
They sell Receiver/Converters to get the digital signal and make it usable for your Analog tvs.

Mtmind

All TV signals are transmitted on radio frequencies. This is why if you live in New York, TWCNYC is so anal about "signal leaks". It just so happens that their systems utilize frequency also utilized by air traffic control. If the "leakage" get severe enough it can intefere with air traffic.

The RF acts as a carrier signal. It is ok to use "overlapped" RF frequencies because the lines carrying it are insulated.

When dealing with analog vs digital "airwaves", they can most certainly continue using RF, or they could implement a different carrier signal and alter their technology to utilize something like microwave (however, this is more expensive and hazardous).

What it seems to me is that there is something else involved. Possibly nefarious, possibly not. Getting your hands on digital broadcast equipment is not that difficult, and the price is dropping. I don't think there is some exclusionary tactic here.

I would guess that there is a desire to change to digital for some other purpose. It doesn't surprise me that the whole world is doing this together....look at how the fractured wireless industry has created so much trouble. We are currently switching to the GSM standard in the US...but we still have to correct frequency issues (the US operates at 1800 mhz, while most providers in Europe operate at 1900, while Asia operates at 2400, i believe....been a little while since i went through that training).

If you have never heard of the "Russian HAARP", you need to do some reading. Google terms like "Woodpecker Grid" and check out cheniere.org (Tom Beardens website). A whole new nightmare for you to become aware of.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Digital and analog - what is it's relation with TV? Such as, the difference in both, and what TV's are and aren't digital or analog.

Digital means the medium for information exchange is binary 0's and 1's, physically represented by the presence of a DC voltage (generally 3.3-5V, which is "on" or "1", 0 volts is "off" or "0"), just like computers use. A digital TV uses binary and millions of transistor logic circuits (like logic gates you can buy at Radio Shack, except mass-produced onto a chip) to form a logic circuit that it uses to output to the screen.

An analog TV takes in a very complicated AC waveform and breaks it down for its input. As an example, the difference between black and white TVs and color TVs introduced an added "carrier band" of information on a certain frequency (you can have multiple frequencies in an AC voltage waveform, and the way they interact is what makes the particular waveform), and color TVs look for the frequency and decode it while for black and white TVs it just comes out as a little bit of noise in the signal, or minute distortions on the picture. It's a very precise frequency, held to a standard down to like 6 significant digits, held to an accuracy in the thousandths of cycles per second.


The implications of switching to digital appliances is mainly that a lot of local electrical effects are going to be toned down. Digital stuff, especially the meat of those circuits, is running low-power, and it's a goal to make use of smaller voltages and better dissipate heat energy. Analog equipment is generally more robust, you may be working with high AC voltages, and because of the relation between electricity and magnetism, you have all sorts of magnetic fields around you because of it. You get a small magnetic field from the presence of any electricity, but you can do interesting things with an AC field.

Also, if you have some other field around you, and someone's beaming in electromagnetic radiation (which is what these beams would be), the frequency of the stuff around you is going to interfere with what's being sent in and you're going to have distortions in the waveform they're sending down to you. Even minute variations may have somewhat significant results when you're talking messing with people's neuron patterns and etc. Like I mentioned, just the old color carrier band in analog TVs is held to an exactness of 6 digits.

[edit on 19-10-2007 by bsbray11]

Digital signals can be broadcast through the air, so to speak. As was noted by someone else, high definition signals can be received by rabbit ear antennas. My wife and I refuse to waste money on a cable TV subscription, so we rely on air broadcasts for what little TV we watch. And believe me, those HD stations look great on our flat panel.

If you are familiar with amateur radio, you can listen to digital transmissions of a different kind. Imagine recording a conversation that you are having with someone by using morse code. If you were to play back that recording and speed it up to the point where the beeps of the communication last no more than part of a second, you'd end up with this constant high pitched tone. That's what ham radio digital transmissions, or RTTY as it is termed, sounds like. People can use RTTY on amateur frequencies to have computers communicate with each other thanks to the speed of the transmissions.

I assume that broadcast TV signals work much the same way only they use a different range on the frequency spectrum.

I wonder if the transition from analog to digital is only the first part of their plan. Perhaps the next step is to move away from broadcasting over the air, and to do all TV through cable and/or some other form of communications medium. I imagine that eventually we would again receive TV wirelessly, but rather than getting it with rabbit ears like we can do now, it would be received by an access point like what computer networks use today for wireless. By doing this, the powers that be would still have control over the signals, mobile devices would work just about anywhere, and the old TV frequencies would be controlled by someone else.

So what in the world would the government want that band of frequencies for? That's interesting. If they are desperate enough to mandate a transition away from analog, and pay people to make that change more convenient, it must be something very useful. I mean, if they only received 10 million requests for those $40 devices, that's $400 million. Quite a hefty price to pay just to give folks the chance to watch TV with a better picture.

well, it could just be because analog uses up to much bandwidth, and to provide better more reliable services, technologically advance the nation further, and open up the market for manufacturers of digital boxes,they said, get that old analog shet, the fck outta here.

Here are some links to images and websites that can help to understand wavelength and frequency.

Wavelength diagram: cnx.org...

Wavelength diagram: www.ldeo.columbia.edu...

Wavelength spectrum: faculty.colostate-pueblo.edu...

Transmission types and the wavelengths/frequencies they use, all put on a wavelength spectrum chart: cache.eb.com...

Wavelength and frequency compared to some other things. Pretty interesting: outreach.atnf.csiro.au...

Originally posted by John_Q_Llama
So what in the world would the government want that band of frequencies for?

Perhaps the transition from analogue to digital TV broadcast would leave plenty of spare bandwidth for the evolution of neighbourhood-based analogue-cellular wireless internet services?

At present, an anlogue TV is solely a reciever-unit picking up a signal from a TV transmitter mast that pumps out a signal in the Mega/Gigawatt-range at-source that will cover several hundred square miles, but to transmit a signal back to the output station would require a similar power-output to send an equivalent data-packet.

At present technological growth rates, the internet-server infrastructure will be overwhelmed by the sheer daily-volume of data that is sent and recieved globally that stands at, and will in all liklehood exceed, the Exo-byte range in the next few years

If the Internet-provider companies followed the same infrastructure-model as the mobile phone companies with lower power-output cell 'trans-ceiver' masts operating on the former TV bandwidths then all that would be needed would be the UHF wireless-cell equivalent of a neighbourhood telephone exchange that could rival T-1 or higher broadband copper-cable speeds to send and recieve data from a ramped-up equivalent of current household WiFi routers...perhaps a dual-use of the satellite-dish?

In this case, not only will your IP address be able to be recorded, but your computer's physical location at the time of reception/transmission regardless of fixed desktop unit or laptop much like the current mobile-phone tracking capability, by WiFi server-signaltriangulation

Originally posted by jimmy1200
well, it could just be because analog uses up to much bandwidth

Analog bandwidth and digital bandwidth are completely different things. It's impossible to get rid of analog devices. Digital devices are made out of them.

reply to post by jpm1602


so we should all hang on to our old t.vs if we want to see the harp tv broadcasts ? i wonder what will be on-old space movies or dr. strangelove type shows------kidding of course.about the only thing i watch on tv now is the news/dr. who/and educational shows------we gave up on cable here years ago-------only channel they had worth watching was the history channel and a public broadcasting channel in maine that had quite a bit of national geographic shows.

The gov wanted this bandwith seven years ago but were put off for a time.
Now they will give hundreds of millions for it. Retailers who sell analog only devices either audio or video are facing substantial fines if they do not place large placards with them. They want this bandwith and they want it bad, and it is worldwide. Stupid idiot boxes interfering with our mind control experiments. Psshhh.
If nothing reeks more of conspiracy I can think of nothing else.
Thank you to the posters who gave me quite the education regarding these signals. My understanding I found was rudimentary at best.
Regards
John

Originally posted by jpm1602
The gov wanted this bandwith seven years ago but were put off for a time.
Now they will give hundreds of millions for it.
Regards
John

Your right John. There will be billions bid for blocks of open frequencies once they come open. There is far too much money involved in this. Look for VHF wifi applications coming out in a few years.

Originally posted by John_Q_Llama

If you are familiar with amateur radio, you can listen to digital transmissions of a different kind. Imagine recording a conversation that you are having with someone by using morse code. If you were to play back that recording and speed it up to the point where the beeps of the communication last no more than part of a second, you'd end up with this constant high pitched tone. That's what ham radio digital transmissions, or RTTY as it is termed, sounds like. People can use RTTY on amateur frequencies to have computers communicate with each other thanks to the speed of the transmissions.

My avatar is a fax transmission from Tokyo Japan. It's broadcast twice a day for the test pattern. You can see the station call sign and frequencies broadcast on the left had side. Several people have contacted me about my avatar so some people have noticed.

This is old school High Frequency digital radio using an analog system. New systems have multiple channel broadcasting using digital modems. Some of this is really really cool on the nerd scale usually associated with ham radio.

Wow, lots of wonderful information as usual. ATS is awesome. Thanks Everyone!

I heard today that Best Buy stopped selling analog TVs.
They will only carry digital sets now.

IF you look at my previous post , i have included the offical reasons they are doing this.

snoopyuk

I know that will be great cellular blocks sold off. But the motherload will be all gov's. For purposes I'm not sure 'I want' to know. Not good if you ask me.

If the military wants these bands wont there be an awful lot of surplus military band receivers hanging around? (old tellies!)

I know all transmissions will be digital - but with computing power getting better every day how long would it be for the algorithms to be figured out? Might not chuck the old box out - could be the new air band radios with a bit of modding.

I'm no expert, but I believe digital transmissions may be more suceptible to a van Eck attack than analogue transmissions.

(van Eck attacks involves monitoring the radiation given off during transmission to gain information about what's being transmitted.)

[edit on 13-11-2007 by avingard]