First Moon Picture from Japanese Orbiter

Originally posted by ArMaPMaintaining enough speed and pushing it "up" if it gets too low, as usual.

So you have data that says it carries extra fuel for this? Love to see it as we can't find that

. And the weight (or, more precisely, the mass) is irrelevant.

Well it would be relevant if you needed to figure out how much feul it needs to " push it "up" if it gets too low"

What do you mean by that? It could be because I need some sleep, but I do not understand what you mean.

It's okay ArMaP... I did

Originally posted by Nohup
Well, rather than spend all that money to actually go to the Moon, maybe they just built a really huge model of it according to photos, and they have a little camera zooming over it pretending to take pictures. The Japanese are known for their expert model making skills, so if anyone could pull it off, it would be them. They could also have done it with CGI, but a model is so much nicer.

There's a little conspiracy theory for you.

[edit on 15-10-2007 by Nohup]

Yes. Just a theory. And a ridiculous one at that. Don't you think they would have a big problem keeping their staff and officers from blabbing their big yap? I don't think the Japanese are as dishonest as Nasa. Even IF there was a coverup in NASA, which is a ridiculous theory as well. An event as big as alien encounters on the moon, which could be the most earth-shaking event in the history of mankind EVER, bigger than the Manhattan project can't be possibly be covered-up.

Since there are and were many many people involved in NASA, it is really a ludicrous idea to think that they would manage to cover this up other than a few 'whistle blowers' blabbing their big yap in the disclosure project spearheaded by Steven 'Scalar-wave-perpetual-machine-yeah-right' Greer.

A little bit of proof goes a long way in giving credibility where credibility is due. All you CTs have is poof.

Scale models? Yeah right... I think you've been watching Ultraman too much.





[edit on 16-10-2007 by omnicron]

reply to post by zorgon


I don't know if it's extra fuel, but here they say that:

The total launch mass of the spacecraft, including 795 kg of propellant and the two satellites, is 2885 kg.

and from here, where they say:

Attitude control - Three- axis stabilized

I suppose they thought of that.

But this is only my opinion, I am NOT an expert on space crafts.

Edited to add the "NOT", that is what happens when I try too write to fast.


[edit on 16/10/2007 by ArMaP]

wow, what do you know...no trees, no water, no parking garages...hhmmm....where was the soul catcher supposed to be cuz i think i missed it...

[edit on 16-10-2007 by icybreeze]

Originally posted by ArMaP

where they say:
Attitude control - Three- axis stabilized

And, of course, I feel I should mention that the three axis stabilization is probably performed by tidal locking.

Originally posted by omnicron
Yes. Just a theory. And a ridiculous one at that.

IF there was a coverup in NASA, which is a ridiculous theory as well. An event as big as alien encounters on the moon, which could be the most earth-shaking event in the history of mankind EVER, bigger than the Manhattan project can't be possibly be covered-up.

Wanna bet? Brookings Report 1960

The discovery of intelligent space beings could have a severe effect on the public, according to a research report released by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The report warned that America should prepare to meet the psychological impact of such a revelation.

The 190-page report was the result of a $96,000 one-year study conducted by the Brookings Institution for NASA's long-range study committee.

Public realization that intelligent beings live on other planets could bring about profound changes, or even the collapse of our civilization, the research report stated.
"Societies sure of their own place have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society," said the NASA report. "Others have survived even though changed. Clearly, the better we can come to understand the factors involved in responding to such crises the better prepared we may be."

Although the research group did not expect any immediate contact with other planet beings, it said that the discovery of intelligent space races "could nevertheless happen at any time."

The New York Times, Thursday, December 15, 1960

"The report, prepared by the Brookings Institution, said "while the discovery of intelligent life in other parts of the universe is not likely in the immediate future, it could nevertheless, happen at any time." Discovery of Intelligent beings on other planets could lead to an all-out effort by earth to contact them, or it could lead to sweeping changes or even the downfall of civilization, the report said.

Even on earth, it added, "societies sure of their own place have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society, and others have survived even though changed."

SOURCES

Originally posted by icybreeze
wow, what do you know...no trees, no water, no parking garages...hhmmm....where was the soul catcher supposed to be cuz i think i missed it...

Very intelligent observation considering we don't have any images to LOOK at yet...

cool a purple moon never seen that before, as for resolution well rather pathetic really.

Lol... 1 page of facts...
and another 5 of the same people trying to discredit the same people as on other similar threads.....
I suggest growing up and sticking to the topic at hand. But I guess that wouldn't attract enough attention....

Let's wait for more photos before we discredit individuals...

reply to post by ArMaP


This is not really an answer to my previous post, it's just to say that only now did I noticed that my previous post, made on my lunch break, had an big error: I forgot to put a "NOT".

So, to make things clear, what I should have posted was:

I am not an expert on space crafts.

I edited the post to put it right, but I thought that I should make it clearer that not only am I not an expert on that subject, my real knowledge of it is very limited when compared to all there is to know.

Sorry if I mislead someone with my error.

Originally posted by zorgon
[
Wanna bet? Brookings Report 1960

The discovery of intelligent space beings could have a severe effect on the public, according .........The 190-page report was the result of a $96,000 one-year study conducted by the Brookings Institution for NASA's long-range study committee.

Public realization that intelligent beings live on other planets could bring about profound changes, or even the collapse of our civilization, the research report stated......understand the factors involved in responding to such crises the better prepared we may be."

Although......the discovery of intelligent space races "could nevertheless happen at any time."

The New York Times, Thursday, December 15, 1960

"The report, .......likely in the immediate future, it could nnevertheless, happen at any time." Discovery of Intelligent beings on other planets could lead to an all-out effort by earth to contact them, or it could lead to sweeping changes or even the downfall of civilization, the report said.

Even on earth, it added, "societies sure of their own place have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society, and others have survived even though changed."

SOURCES

Strawman....

This is just a report of a worst case scenario. There's no CONCRETE evidence that presents this is reality. If there was, it should be supplied with the report, which in this case ZERO.

You really think humans can't adapt to a new earth shaking event, even IF it was to happen, which I am sure will not, given in the history of our humanity, no planet wide 'contact' has ever happened which should have happened a long time ago.

And don't confuse the ancient gods with aliens. No concrete evidence to support that, as ancient and medieval people can not distinguish normal phenomena (meteorites, ball lightning, birds) from fantasy as humans today (see the orange county fake ufo thread) and more likely a figment of their primitive imagination.

Again the strawman argument provided by CTs are never supplied with proven scientific evidence, as shown by countless of posts in ATS. Just reports of what MAY or COULD have happened or happened.

Don´t know if this has been mentioned, but here are some snippets from my correspondence with the team:

Q:

When will the imagery be released to the public?

A:

Thank you for your interest in the KAGUYA mission.

We plan to start the regular observation from Mid-December,
after the completion of the initial checkout. So the release
of the images available for public will be after Mid-December at the arliest.

Schedule of the KAGUYA
www.jaxa.jp...

I believe that the information about the KAGUYA's image and movie
will be updated at the following webpages as soon as we get ready at:

www.jaxa.jp...
www.selene.jaxa.jp...

So please keep checking the website for the latest.

Q:

Will all material be released?

A:

The information shown in the following PDF linked below
might be helpful, though it was presented one year ago,in 2006
and there has been some changes.
lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov...

If Japan were to theoretically capture images of structures on the moon I have zero faith that they would release them undoctored to the public. They will come to the same conclusion that NASA did (freely or forcefully) and any information gained that diverges from the party line will be altered to fit the common perception.



On a sidenote, what do you all think we will get when they give us their photos? If they release actual HD images do you think they will be any different then what we've already seen over the years? I, for one, am prepared to be underwhelmed.

[edit on 16-10-2007 by merryxmas]

Originally posted by omnicron
An event as big as alien encounters on the moon, which could be the most earth-shaking event in the history of mankind EVER, bigger than the Manhattan project can't be possibly be covered-up.

I wonder about that. How hard would it be, really?

The biggest advantage in covering up something like that is that there really are very few pipelines of information (usually just one) coming from the Moon to the Earth. Even after all these years, we still aren't set up to receive radio when a ship is on the farside. And there actually aren't very many people directly involved. Certainy not thousands. A few astronauts who are notoriously gung-ho. Not even that, at the moment. All you have now are a few technicians looking at screens. Looking at it as a pure security problem, it wouldn't be the hardest thing to put a lock-down on big portions of the data streams and people involved. There may be a few leaks. But hey, that's what disinformation is for.

Besides, while historically huge, the actual encounters might be relatively small or subtle. Sort of like the Vikings or the Chinese meeting with American Indians before Columbus. Something that can be easily dismissed at first, which could be studied in detail later on.

Of course, it would be difficult to determine for sure if such a thing happened. Plenty of chaff already out there to confuse the issue. All of which would make it easier to keep a coverup going. So I don't know.

So there are 2 seperate weights listed.

www.selene.jaxa.jp...
Says it weighs 3 tons at launch (2722kg) including both satellites

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...
Says it weighs 2885kg that includes the two satellites and 795kg of propellant.

That is a 365 pound difference. How can that happen?

Not that some would think this is a big deal, but why are there two seperate weights listed and how come the NASA site lists that there is 795kg of propellant while the Jaxa site doesn't?

Here is something else I found. The Apollo 11 orbit was 183-186km. I don't know if they had to correct their orbit but I thought I would post this.

The other thing I found on Apollo 11 is the number of orbits and the time it took. 59.5 hours and 30 orbits. science.ksc.nasa.gov...

Simple math tells us the average orbit took a little less then 2 hours each. Guess what happens when I put that info into this calculator?
home.att.net...

To do 30 orbits within 59.5 hours you need to be at 101.8km.

This isn't near the 183-186km orbits that the NASA site lists.

To do 30 orbits at 184.5km(average of the Apollo 11 orbits), you will take 63 hours to do so. So why is there a 4.5 hour difference?

So what am I to think after doing some simple math?

I mention these numbers since there are differences in what is publically available and what the numbers should be to meet the criteria listed on these official sites.

Am I to think that these 2 space agencies don't talk to each other and get precise info to post on their sites?

Why does the Apollo 11 info not add up?

Is there a trend of false info developing here?

reply to post by exo.psych

Thanks for that exo.psych, usefull information.

It looks to me as if the public will not have access to the raw data as that will not be in level 2 where the access point is.

And wouldn't you just believe it this PDF hosted on a Nasa server.

lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by sherpa

Thanks for that exo.psych, usefull information.

It looks to me as if the public will not have access to the raw data as that will not be in level 2 where the access point is.

And wouldn't you just believe it this PDF hosted on a Nasa server.

lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov...

I didn´t notice that

Seeing that we won´t get the raw data and NASA is keeping tabs, I guess it´s highly likely we´re going to be screwed on this one. This really blows, but then again I kind of like the fact that the moonbase-theories won´t be debunked anytime soon. At least not in my book

[edit on 16-10-2007 by exo.psych]

Originally posted by exo.psych
Will all material be released?

lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov...

YEGADS!! So to answer the question they send ya to a NASA site to get info..

Uh huh... okay fine..

Nice PDF though but errmmmm can someone please explain THIS


This will be the Selene public access archive...



Just in CASE yawl missed it...



So in the immortal words of the 'Rabbit'

Errrr whats up doc?

reply to post by zorgon


Yes I saw that, but I think they are just going to be using the clem data as a location map for selecting Kaguya images, or possibly until they get there own data online as a locator.

Wow at first I wasn't very surprised with the Japanese moon photo, but when i compared it to some other moon photos from earth i was shocked. It looks like something out of a 7 year old video game. It's probably the camera though, because i doubt Japan would fake a moon mission.