The Battle Between Good and Evil... (Who's winning?)

Originally posted by Conundrum04
reply to post by justanothergangster

 

The powers that be may have you by the balls right now(i.e. "the matrix has you").

Your examples are thoughtful but you're thinking on a micro level(individual/reactionist level). The people in power want that type of confusion that you just posted. They want their minions to squabble and kill over mundane bs, just as long as you don't catch on to their illegal actions.

If a dad of 3 is desparate, hungry and unemployed who needs to feed their family decides to rob a liquor store, this is exactly what the elite expect. As long as you rob and steal from the common man and don't interfer with their ambitions, goals, and "evil" undertakings. It's all good. Just send the loser to Folsom prison and throw away the key.

You have to be able to see things on a macro level(the big picture).

You have to self educate yourself to understand that your actions are directly related to the actions of your leaders.





[edit on 28-9-2007 by Conundrum04]

You believe world leaders encourage crime?
The leaders are human like everyone els they make mistakes and altumatly they do what is best for there country.

For example war in iraq it is obvious amercia went in there for oil but like every bad action also has a good reaction vise versa,
The good
.took a genocidal dictator from power
.Troops are now trying to stabalise and reform iraq
. Iraq will soon be able to experiance democracy and freedom without Tierney or oppression.
The bad
. Destruction and death of many civilian lives.
. Costing lives of us and British and Australian troops.
. Large amounts of money being spent on this war

There are off course much more points but for the sake of argument i listed the points above.

Now your scenario about the father with the kids.
The leaders of the world dont make you do bad things just like the devil dosent, in the end its all personal choice just some people like to blame everyone but them selfs.

The father in your scenario assuming hes not drug abused would take up a job at a factory where the average weaige is 27$ a hour that + child support benefits of $200 for each child a fortnight and reduced housing comishen rent payments.

Its our choice what we do and how we do it in life stop blaming leaders and relise we are not slaves to anyone.

I come from russia when we came to this country we were not wealthy and myself my mum my grandma my aunti my cusin my grandma and my uncle all lives in a 2 bedroom apartment.
We didn't go killing or robing liquor stores we worked our way up and made a life for ourself.

Judging buy the posts you make in most forums i assume you have never really seen the ugly side of life but have a mindset for people being under the control of Satan evil and government, now when you sit down in front of your computer typing a re ponce to this relise the reason you are wrighting that reponce is because you are free,

relise that the information you wish to argue with me is there for you because we are free. So i ask you to wake up and relise that you are siting in your room talking about being slaves yet you enjoy every freedom there is to enjoy.

You failed to comment on anything I posted above except the slavery thing, which I meant more as a metaphoric observation.

I could easily be a arrogant egotistical prick a long F'ing time ago. For your knowledge I was an athlete that constantly had to deal with over blown egos.

I will never toot my own horn here because I understand that the life I once lived is completely foney.

If you want to comment on anything I said about my previous post, do so. But when you say that I'm the slave and that my ego is the cause of it, I really do take offense to that.

Do you care to comment on my observation on the city/state structures that have existed throughout millenniums or what?

Originally posted by Conundrum04
You failed to comment on anything I posted above except the slavery thing, which I meant more as a metaphoric observation.

I could easily be a arrogant egotistical prick a long F'ing time ago. For your knowledge I was an athlete that constantly had to deal with over blown egos.

I will never toot my own horn here because I understand that the life I once lived is completely foney.

If you want to comment on anything I said about my previous post, do so. But when you say that I'm the slave and that my ego is the cause of it, I really do take offense to that.

Do you care to comment on my observation on the city/state structures that have existed throughout millenniums or what?

Actually your whole point about the system being run on lies and evil is rather ignorant at best and i didn't really see it as something to respond to completely yet your analogy on people being slaves was interesting. But for arguments sake i will elaborate.

Lets start as far back as golden age of Greece the age off socrotise pereclies, cimon. Now remember you said through history the city and states are evil.
In Greece (athens) they did not try to control there minions in a age of slavery there slaves had right of freedom after there debt has been payed and were the most educated slaves in the world. The leaders of Greece who were elected buy the people mind you were grate rulers who loved cared and fought for there city's.

Sparta a highricial system with a council with a iron clad set of laws to avoid corruption. There people were the military pride of the western world each would die happily for there people and city.

The peloponisian wars the grate ROME a star of civilization and knowledge housed the most patriotic and infuentual people in history (read Ancient Rome by Pamela Bradley).

In history and in large city's there was evil but also good and if you bothered to read my other posts you will see what i mean buy our polotishens doing whats best for us.

You say we are getting controlled, basically what is happening is you give up a few freedoms( for example in Australia the right to bear arms) for a more safer secure life and as i mentioned in my post before you have more freedoms then you let yourself relies i wont repeat myself because it is all in my former posts .

For your lasher out ideas tell me what kind of people go to prison if you cant work that out here let me help you
.Killers
.rapists
.sadists
.psychopaths
.terrorists
.robbers

If you believe this people are simply "lashing out" because of a system of government we have in place now then simply leave the country because if you disagree with the freedoms we have at this moment you do not deserve to be siting at your computer feeling safe knowing that the people listed above are behind bars.

You say you were a athlete that had to deal with ego driven people and that your life was "fake" i ponder how does a athlete know what it is like to live in the slum of life and to comment on there intelligences. As for my comment of you being a slave to your ego i stand buy that and perhaps next time if you don't wish to be insulted then perhaps don't try to shut off other peoples views of on the world.

Now i believe i have set my views on your topics with this post and my others so will you do me the honor of answering why you think my previous post was not worthy of this topic and held no relevance.

reply to post by syress


Thanks for your response.

I'm currently in the process of moving(to the city of sin, Vegas). L.A. is a freakin' nightmare and it's just a lot easier for my to live in that place called LV.

Anyway, I will respond to you within a week(I won't have internet access for a week). I appreciate you comments, but I'm going to rip you apart when I'm able to get back on ATS.

[edit on 24-11-2007 by chissler]

Originally posted by Conundrum04
reply to post by syress

 

Thanks for your response.

I'm currently in the process of moving(to the city of sin, Vegas). L.A. is a freakin' nightmare and it's just a lot easier for my to live in that #hole called LV.

Anyway, I will respond to you within a week(I won't have internet access for a week). I appreciate you comments, but I'm going to rip you apart when I'm able to get back on ATS.

Look forward to it

Keep your tongue from evil, and your lips from words of deceit.
~Psalms 34:13

Evil will put an end to the sinner, and those who are haters of righteousness will come to destruction.
~Psalms 34:21

And in their mouth there was no false word, for they are untouched by evil.
~Revelation 14:5

Good and evil are tricky words - relative in their meaning for all people and all cultures and religions...

Truth vs. deceit is the only literal battle fought over the liberation the human soul...and it is not that we don't own our own souls but rather that we believe false ideas which are no different that physical shackles and actual prison cells!

The truth shall set you free!

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery/None but ourselves can free our mind. (Bob Marley, 'Redemption Song')

Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it. (Robert F. Kennedy)

Well its easier to destroy then to build up.

I first propose that good and evil are an interaction between two intentional actions. Any experience that is displeasureable to a being can be termed 'bad' but if the experience is also the intention of another being (not the same one) then the interaction can be termed as 'evil.' The amount of evil that can be produced is proportional to almost everything, from the intelligence, power, appearance etc. of the evil doer. Since any known evil doer cannot perfectly predict and have the capacity to hold in his/her/it's mind the future, he/she/it can only do a certain amount of evil from partial anticipation of a bad event that occurs to another. This also is applicable to 'good.' However there are two kinds of good and one musn't be confused with the other. Same with bad, there are good events, which are anything that causes pleasure to a being. And then there is 'good' where an action that causes pleasure to a being in question, is the intention of another being (again there are two beings, not one for itself.) It is noteable that evil and the second form or good, are things stated in interest of an observer (whether or not he/she/it was involved in the interaction) about the outcome of the interaction and its emotional effect.

One common organism in which evil is usually present is competition. In competition a future winner will (most likely) not only anticipate winning but take away the possibility of others to win, who clearly anticipated it as well. But it must be stated that if an intention has any effect on the outcome of events, then by that value, in formula, there is either evil or good (or both). I'll get to that in a second. Competition, I do loathe it but some who agree closely with me would say it is a necessary evil. This can be true in two forms. The first way is public competition, generally for entertainment. It serves to allow all of us an emotional engagement into it, satiating us so that there isn't a widescale form of competition such as war. It serves to fix our cravings which socially manifest into large things.
Then of course there is a more private competition, not as publicized. This allows us to technologically progress. It serves as a more quick method to give the greater of us (if not governments on top) understanding and power, just in case we may ever need it. These two forms of competition, if taken closely, are based on emotion and logic, basically the two traits of reality on the scale of an entire population.

I mentioned that intention verifies good or evil. However one common concept must exist before good or evil can. Free will must exist. How can one define intention? Is it only a thought that you consciously have? What about unconscious thought? 90 percent of your brain is unconscious and it was once theorized by Sigmud Freud that it consisted of the superego and the id. The superego was everything learned since birth, and the id was all your natural tendencies. Well it is accepted that they are in constant conflict of each other, and that without even knowing it, you could be having the most evil intentions. What if those intentions became real and effected the lives of others emotionally? If it was accepted that subconscious thought was a verification for good or evil then you would be very evil . But even in conscious thought, how much if it is truly controlled by you? For all purposes lets say that inspite of the events around you say that only 8 percent of your conscious thought was truly in your control. Then only 8%(10%) or 0.8 percent of your thought was in your control. And thus it would be that thought that defined your intention and depending on what occurs, that thought would determine by what amount, how good or evil you are. For example if that 0.8 percent of thought described 13% of the event that emotionally effect another in a negative way, then you are by that much evil and deserve to experience the exact 13%--Damn

Well I ran out of room on my first post, but I've said enough so that if you read it through you'll get the idea, in your afterthought.

reply to post by TheSecretTruth


I was talking about this with my father just yesterday. He's 70 years old so he has some perspective on things.

He said that the world is more f-ed up than he's ever seen it, or ever imagined it could be. He was particularly affected by the Supreme Court case in which our U.S. President was arguing on the side of an admitted murderer of a 14-year old girl. What this guy did to the girl was beyond evil, and yet POTUS was arguing on the murderer's side.

I think that pretty much tells you that evil is winning.

Appreciate the comments and thoughts people, I enjoy seeing your opinions being aired here. Keep up the 'good' (see what I done there? ) debate and thoughts and I'll try and get on more to share the input/output process.

TheSecretTruth

Peace out

good and evil are in the eye of the beholder (with obvious exceptions like child molestation and other henious acts) , one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighters

I think living in the information age makes it seem like the world is going to hell in a hand basket, but I don't think human nature has changed in 100,000 years, just how much we are exposed to it.

reply to post by TheSecretTruth



Hitler's problem was that he had no persistence in his pursuit for the good... He allowed himself to become embittered by the knowledge that he obtained..

God is real. God, is above good and evil. Good is that wanted by God, and Evil is that unwanted by God.

God is the only power, and thus "good will win". So the answer to the question is that Good is winning thought it doesn't seem as such to some poeple.


God is Good, but it is Good that is what is wanted by God. Evil is the illusion of power, evil is unwanted of God and thus it is powerless. The only power Evil has is that which Evil can con man into believing. Evil Lies. Don't believe.

There's only God.

Biblically, it never claims that there's a war between a devil and God. God is above all other things. The battle between Good and Evil is on lower levels of understanding.

Don't fall prey to the con job of evil.

Appreciated points once again

However, my reply to the above post is this...

I have no problem with faith and if people choose to have different beliefs than myself, but what proof do you have to sustain that God is good and he is the soul creator of the goodness around us? I can understand faith, but surely there has to be some sort of rational foundation for you to make the link of God and 'good'.

I have recently been reading up on Utilitarianism and it's philosophical foundations and was wondering... People when in the darkest and most desperate moments need something they can grasp to and believe in that'll push them further in life. For example, John Stuart Mill advanced on Benthams original theory of Utilitarianism with the understanding of Higher and Lower pleasures (which I won't digress too much in, if you are intrested I suggest you check it out, it's a good way to keep an open mind). It made me think of religion, and no matter what faith, it makes you strive to better yourself and try anc become a better person, which I'm thankful for, but the goodness was already inside ourselves, we make the choice to be good or we make the choice to deny that very element inside ourselves that tells us subconciously what's right and what's wrong.

Anyway... I'm rambling lol...

Don't ask, I hit the button twice and posted twice for some reason lol

[edit on 2-12-2007 by TheSecretTruth]

I fed a homeless girl last night. Will probably never see her again.

We first need an accepted definition of good and evil. I just checked on "good" at dictionary.com and there are 58 definitions for it. Hmmm. Evil is a little better, only 13 definitions there (anyone besides me see the humor in that?).

Well, out of all those, I guess I might as well pick my own. Evil is obviously easier to define than good. #10 says: anything causing injury or harm. I like that, but that's not enough. An accident can cause injury or harm but not be evil. I'll say evil is intentional injury or harm. Hardly comprehensive and open to interpretation but we have to start somewhere. Good would then necessarily be the opposite, intentional benefit.

What is the true nature of the human being? Good or evil? At birth it is not in us to hurt others, but neither do most infants seek to do good. At birth we are completely and utterly selfish and do not concern ourselves with either the good or harm of others, so I say our true nature is neutral. An older child will readily hurt others, but it is not his intent to hurt them - his intent is to satisfy his own needs and desires and he does not yet understand the effect on others. So we start in neutral and are steered towards good or evil by ... what? Family? Circumstances? Genetics? I don't know; if you do, speak up!

Very few people are mostly good or mostly evil. Yes, I know, you can think of 20 examples right off the top of your head. Don't bother. In a world of billions of people, they are very few. Most people are a mixture of good and evil, and the balance can shift at any time.

Thus the battle is not between good people and evil people, for the most part. It is a battle within each person, and the outcome can change daily. One day I might decide to pick up an injured puppy and take it to the vet, the next day I might swipe something from a store because I need it and can't afford it.

The battle is never won, but never lost, and as to which side is "winning" on any given day, each of us must answer for himself on a daily basis. Each day we have choices to make, and each day the battle within each of us may shift one way or the other. Today it seems that my evil side is winning, since I am here posting instead of doing my work. In my defense I can only offer "TGIF!"

Yeah, in some retrospect, I believe that it's the people we have around us throughout our lives that mould us into the people we are and the views we have. Some people might not like that idea, but it seems to be the truth with a majority of the population.

Also, (although this is slightly a bit of a tangent), do you believe that we choose to be good or evil, or believe it's more of a 'fate' thing...

Sometimes we need to do bad things in our lives to reflect and see that we have a dual nature... that no one is 100% good... Hell, I'm sure Jesus broke a few rules...

Just wondering, but do you think that such a thing as 'Karma' would apply?...

I think that being good or bad only can be determined by the person him/her self.