Why has America become so Imperialistic?

I have been a supporter of Democracy. But the current administration has been all about bulding up an empire. More guns, more tanks, more soldiers. Spending all our funds on the military. When will this build up stop? I understand we need a military, but a fairly small one would suffice in my opinion. I don't think we need 3 million dollar tanks, 10 billion dollar planes, 1 millon dollar suits. When we have homeless people walking the streets. when we have millions of people with no healtcare.

I blame this on Bush, Cheney. and the current administration. In some way they have become the Empire as seen in star wars films. In Attack of the Clones the Emperor builds up the greatest clone army in the galaxy. And that's happening right now. I mean it's not like we need more troops, more machine guns, more tanks and gadgets. we are not at war with an alien planet or a threat unknown to humanity.

I think we need to go back to old fashion talks. just apologize and be regular people. we don't need to be all flashy and show off our gear to the world. why is it that we need the newest state of the art weapon..the newest transport car filled with computers, tv's, leather seats..and why is the american people paying for all this war gear? does anyone find it kind of disturbing that ALL our money is going to war technology? I mean what are we preparing for here? a global invasion from mars or something. just seems silly to be spending so much on War machines.

George Lucas has demostrated this in his films, that machines fail. Machines, droids, fail during a war, that the real weapon is inside us..it's in our hearts and we don't need all this weaponary to fight a war. The best way to fight a war is to stop thinking Imperialistically.

Discuss.

Imperialism in this country didn't just start, it's been going on forever. Also, please describe your take on Imperialism, since I'm not sure where you are going with this thread. It seems to be more about capitalism vs socialism than anything else.

Originally posted by scientist
Imperialism in this country didn't just start, it's been going on forever. Also, please describe your take on Imperialism, since I'm not sure where you are going with this thread. It seems to be more about capitalism vs socialism than anything else.

I don't mean imperialism as we seen in history, but more a take on science fiction style views on the future. films like THX 1138. I think imperialism comes in all forms and shapes, and when you build a great army and invade other countries, I think that counts. I know this is not about films that depict imperial views, but it's more on the views of what other people have about an EMPIRE. For example, in Rome it was all about control and guards on every corner. I think the military has much to do with that militaristic imperialistic view. Hope this helps. if not, just think of the Empire from star wars films.

ah ok, thanks for giving me your definition of imperialism. I can see how you draw the comparison between Cheney and Darth Vader.. heh. So who exactly would Luke Skywalker be? Obi?

Honestly, I never really liked the Star Wars series, or space-based science fiction in general, so I don't have much to go on within this context.

Because you need to have a strong military to take over the world and build a empire. Rome tried it. Hitler tried it, causing two world wars.

The third is probably on the way. USA is in extreme debt, they are loaning money to build insane armies and high tech space weaponry, probably because they count on the third world war erasing the current monetary system anyway.


[edit on 26-9-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by scientist
ah ok, thanks for giving me your definition of imperialism.

I can see how you draw the comparison between Cheney and Darth Vader.. heh. So who exactly would Luke Skywalker be? Obi?

Honestly, I never really liked the Star Wars series, or space-based science fiction in general, so I don't have much to go on within this context.

well thank you. did you hear the reference made by Clinton? about cheney?

here's the link.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Well uhh, the US has been an imperial power since at least the Spanish American war. Hell the US administration was the first to move from direct colonial rule of a country to total economic domination of a country. basically, they pull their troops out of a country (see: Philipines), install puppet/comprador leaders that are all to happy to give every resource the country has to Foreign Capital, give the country proceedural democracy, and sit back and watch the jack roll in.

I suggest you take a good look at US foreign policy, who it supports and why; who it doesnt support and why (the last part being the hardest for most to grasp.)

If you want info from ATS about this subject, i suggest you take a look at IgnoranceIsntBliss' threads. Otherwise, you have a lot of solid book raking to do.

I'd say its because the USA, as it stands, is the foremost military power (state-wise) in an international system run by states. Before, the USA was checked in its zones of control by other powers, The British Empire and the USSR in particular.

Personally, I think the situation would be little different if France or Iran or China were the current global hegemon. The personalities in charge of the state in question can determine to what degree the state acts in an imperialistic manner, but it always will so long as it remains the pre-eminent power in the international system.

reply to post by jedimiller


I'm all for a strong defense, besides its one of the few things are government does that is actually authorized by the constitution. I have a problem with squandering our military. We are currently squandering our military in Iraq and as a result we are weakening our defense. As for empire building, I am opposed to it, but I am for have a strong alliance of powerful friends.

I agree with what you guys are saying. but we are not living in a world war period. we should move on and stop thinking militaristically. I think it's a good idea to destroy everything and start over fresh. with no nuclear threats, not weapons etc. living with nature is the way to go



military buildup is not helping global warming. it only causes more hate and war.

The Empire just wanted to bring order to the universe and those pesky rebels wanted pure chaos, and isn’t that what total freedom is, pure chaos?

One thing that struck me in a philosophical way was a scène in one of the movies where two imperial soldiers were just walking along and having a normal conversation about life in general and BAM the rebels attacked, and since old Gorge Lucas made sure the Empire looked evil it was a good thing to do…kind of makes you wonder…

I say the blowing up of the world was a conspiracy brought about by the rebels and the death star (named by the rebels) was actually the largest day care center in the galaxy.

Those rebels that want pure chaos to rule the universe should be stopped!

the imperialism is a mark of england. England always wants power over someone. Then they play like there our friends..

So far isreal and england are using american blood and wealth alot. Its more than annoying. To many americans.

Originally posted by jedimiller
I agree with what you guys are saying. but we are not living in a world war period. we should move on and stop thinking militaristically. I think it's a good idea to destroy everything and start over fresh. with no nuclear threats, not weapons etc. living with nature is the way to go

military buildup is not helping global warming. it only causes more hate and war.

You advocate living like a bum. Go get a card-board box, and live in nature.

When you want to live in the modern world, you're going to have to accept international competition involving the US as a military hegemon.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
The Empire just wanted to bring order to the universe and those pesky rebels wanted pure chaos, and isn’t that what total freedom is, pure chaos?

One thing that struck me in a philosophical way was a scène in one of the movies where two imperial soldiers were just walking along and having a normal conversation about life in general and BAM the rebels attacked, and since old Gorge Lucas made sure the Empire looked evil it was a good thing to do…kind of makes you wonder…

I say the blowing up of the world was a conspiracy brought about by the rebels and the death star (named by the rebels) was actually the largest day care center in the galaxy.

Those rebels that want pure chaos to rule the universe should be stopped!

it's good you bring that up. when I first saw attack of the clones I was scared of my pants. he's this guy, Palpatine who looks like a nice politician, and he creates this clone army for the republic, so you think, wow, this is a very nice guy. and the clone army was supposed to be for the good guys, but you all know it turns out that he uses the army to take over the galaxy, so then you think, "oh, so that's why he was building that great clone army". he had the plans all along. George Bush is a lot like Palpatine.

Starwars is conceived by a buffoon with limited understanding of Geo-Politics so how you use him to explain complex international issues I do not understand.

But, the US has (as someone mentioned before) always been Imperialist. From taking over the Continent (manifest destiny) to the Mexican War, to the Civil War (a war used by the North to subvert Southern wealth and preserve the integrity which the "Empire" relied upon for survival), to the Spanish American War (which the US conquered the Philippines and killed 250,000 Filipinos to ensure their control) to the various wars between WW1 and WW2, WW2 itself, and post-war period.

Get real, the US is an Empire, so was the Roman Republic from about 250 BC to about 40 BC.

Just because it is a Republic does not mean it is not an Empire, Empires are formulations of territorial and social dominations which are used to extract or generate wealth and create a stable market. In another definition, Empires ARE stable markets.

SO LETS LOOK AT THE STAR WARS EMPIRE

By all intents and purposes, the Star Wars Empire (Empire) was more progressive than the Republic or Rebels. The Republic was old monied institutionary politics limited to the extreme wealthy. It involved only a majority of economic concerns and thus left-out a lot of civilized planets from its government (Tatooine) though it exploited them economically.

During the Empire, the Empire's borders expanded on a popular front, the majority of citizens were freed from elitist rule under an Emperor who had now to appease a majority of people who no longer had association to government. People previously unemployed found service in the Imperial military as officers of a Clone army.

The Empire involved previously exploited systems economically (such as Tatooine) and sought to at least tame, or civilize the criminal regimes which ruled such planets.

USA or not, the ideas simply are the same, and what is "evil" really is perspective by the story teller.

This thread hurts my brain.

I honestly feel that this administration is not that far removed from any administration before it. The biggest difference being that advances in world wide communication (The Internet). Everything was much easier to suppress in previous administrations, whereas BushCo has to deal with every move being scrutinized by the public.

We have been a power hungry civilization since our inception. Now it is just becoming harder and harder to do it without the entire world noticing and speaking up about it.

It is actually pretty interesting to think about.... to me anyway.

Originally posted by True_Confederate
Starwars is conceived by a buffoon with limited understanding of Geo-Politics so how you use him to explain complex international issues I do not understand.

I agree in full. I just think that jedimiller likes SW a little too much.

In another definition, Empires ARE stable markets.

Maybe so, but that doesnt mean they're the only stable markets. Besides, the current US empire relies heavily on expansion (as all capitalism does) and there is a historic precedence for empires to expand too much and fail due to internal pressures and strife.

originally posted by Karlhungis
I honestly feel that this administration is not that far removed from any administration before it. The biggest difference being that advances in world wide communication (The Internet). Everything was much easier to suppress in previous administrations, whereas BushCo has to deal with every move being scrutinized by the public.

We have been a power hungry civilization since our inception. Now it is just becoming harder and harder to do it without the entire world noticing and speaking up about it.

No not really. The world new about US Global expansion for along time, the only change the internet has brought has been here in North America, where its loyal citizenry is being educated to the facts of Empire and Imperialism.