The Fifth of November?

reply to post by lurk0more


Of course other terms may be tried. But the word choice you make invariably eliminates the letters in that word from further consideration.

Good luck...

Next -A few Material things:


[edit-fix link]


[edit on 10/19/2007 by Outrageo]

Hi outrageo,

it's great to see your process and the sorts of results you have been getting. After my own efforts in the same direction I have to agree with you that trying to solve an entire anagram of this length is a daunting task. Even if (say) five words can be determined as definitely in the answer -- and we've had no solid confirmation of even one -- then the remaining letters still allow for 1000's of possible different words and hence anagram results. Here's just a small copy-and-paste from my sub-files, where I have results stored in batches of 1000 anagrams. It's easy to see which words I set as mandatory for the solution generator on this earlier run:

Unweeded anagrams of 'dollnean- ngcniualcy evo, evoui shleeoig cnteint itdntion ,crtoea ayald bpisgni esstefmnf':

Self-neglect conditions deny botchedly imagine innovative, utopian, faultless ignorance.
Boldest conditions imagine chastely deny innovative, self-neglectful, utopian ignorance.
Self-neglectful, innovative conditions clash besottedly imagine deny utopian ignorance.
Innovative ignorance blotchs sedately deny self-neglectful, utopian conditions imagine.
Self-neglect conditions deny faultlessly imagine innovative, utopian, botched ignorance.

Innovative ignorance hosts delectably deny self-neglectful, utopian conditions imagine.
Gentle conditions deny utopian sloth scuffles delectably imagine innovative ignorance.
Imagine deftly deny innovative, utopian conditions lush self-neglect ignorance obstacle.
The self-neglectful conditions imagine beastly deny clod's utopian, innovative ignorance.

My later tries, with words quite similar to the ones you list, naturally produced similar results to yours so there's no need to put them here. My thinking is that the statement does not need to include "ATS"; being (as Nomad1272 put it) a mission statement, such specificity is not required.

By the way, I have loaded the font used by SO and written out the phrase: the second comma is definitely placed immediately before "crtoea", implying either a typo or to indicate a text reversal -- of either the whole text or that section.

I also looked at breaking up the statement into 3 parts based upon the commas. Here's a raw, unedited copy of what was yielded from the middle section:

Rearranging the letters of 'evoui shleeoig cnteint itdntion' gives:

"Is not connivent, huge, elite idiot."
"Incontinent idle soviet toughie."
"Inconvenient, tough, elite idiots."
"Inconvenient, huge idiot toilets."
"Toughest, inconvenient idiot lie."
"Connivent, hot, elite genius idiot."
"Sought inconvenient, elite idiot."
"Thieving, odious, elite continent."
"The indignities count to Evil one."
"Denounce inviting, toothiest lie."
"On the inviting, tedious election."
"Not thieving in tedious election."
"Cognitive innuendo to this elite."
"It the egotistic evil on innuendo."
"Vote on tongue-tied, nice nihilist."

These are the longest words/phrases that use some of the letters:
"tunnel-detection", "indistinctive", "discontinuing",
"deconvolution", "unenlightened", "conditioning",
"constituting", "constitution", "gentle-voiced",
"incivilities", "inconvenient", "indulgencies",
"technologies", "disincentive", "technologist",
"constitutive", "convolutions", "evolutionist",
"lichen-tinted", "long division", "non-detection",
"nonsingleton", "silhouetting", "constituent",
"constituted", "destitution", "distinction", "distinctive",
"enlightened", "gluttonised"

Generated using Anagram Genius(tm) version 9

While some of the "solutions" are wonderful I find "technologies" interesting. Though it's 12 letters, it's meaningful in context. "Technology" can be derived from the full string.

Anyone who wishes to try the anagram route can download it as a "free trial". I gave the link and more details about this program's use back on p.39, (Post date Oct 13, time 5.07 a.m)

[edit on 20-10-2007 by JustMike]

To continue from my previous post... (This 4,000 character limit can be irksome for garrulous types like me.)

First a note for LurkoMore from another "newbie": welcome!! Regarding getting "U2U" privileges, I had the same problem when I joined last month. I got messages and couldn't reply until I'd made 20 posts. The thing is, it is apparently the number of posts you make and not how many points you earn that allow you to use U2U's. If you go into your member center (up top) you can find how many posts you've made. As soon as you have twenty you should be able to send private messages.

Next, about the possibility of solving the "dollnean" text from a key word. I think that if the text is based upon a formulated order then a key word will give us the chance to crack the whole thing. I'd also suspect it will have to be a relatively straightforward formula. Well, like I've said before -- I sure hope so! It just seems to me that if the anagram is a totally random mix then the task is nigh on impossible within the time constraints we have.

If it is a key as complex as (say) the "Enigma" system or the "Krypto" then in my humble opinion the resulting string of characters would look far less like "partial words" than it actually does. Under those types of ciphers, "CAT" could come out as "YYP" but "MAT" might produce "XLK", or even "XXX"! (And if the word "CAT" appears again in the same text it might be "OOA" or whatever...) And that's assuming that "random" extra letters are not thrown in to muddy things even more...So I'm hoping that our SO (Bill) has not gone that far...

Anyone who'd like to read about the "ENIGMA" code machine and how it was cracked can access [this pdf text], which was written by Professor Tuma from Prague University (just down the road a few miles from my place). Don't worry -- it's in English and very easy to follow if you skip all the formulae and just peruse the text. You'll get a fair idea of the processes of thinking that are used in cracking ciphers.

"Revolution" seems a likely word but I've not yet discovered a workable interval-based key that will give that word and also generate other words. We need a starting point to unravel the thing. A short word would be great as it's far less time-consuming to run it through a large number of permutations, but without at least one word that is definitely in the "dollnean" text then solving this thing will come down to what SO said: someone who is very clever or very lucky.

I ain't that clever and not that lucky, either, and the odds of cracking this thing by "best guess" methods are about the same as winning the lottery...Any suggestions?

Originally posted by nomad1272

Just thinking here, but SO said the phrase was the company's "raison d'etre" (pg. 47), their mission statement if you will, so how about "missions"? Also, could the last four word be "create daily content headlines"?

Well, the last four words could be as you've stated, since the letters in the "dollnean" phrase allow for them I guess that the mission statement more-or-less needs to state what the object or goal of the mission is, though. Huge thanks for suggesting the word "mission/s". This is the sort of extra input we need!

I'll get onto it and see if "mission" fits to any kind of reasonable number-coded letter order. (If it's a plural then that's a bonus.)

Errrm...If anyone else has suggested the same word already then my apologies for missing it. (Refer to my excuse in an earlier post... )

reply to post by lurk0more


I believe you may be on to something there...
I remember that show...the mascot was a DONKEY!!!!

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by AcesInTheHole

 

1 is dead on accurate and a few are very close.

Are,any in the bottom picture now closer? and how many are now "dead accurate" ................thanks.



Thanks,for the picture AcesInTheHole. keep 'em comeing something will unlock surely,

reply to post by AccessDenied


Hi, AccessDenied. If a solution or a key to unearthing a clue is in that Hee Haw reference material - looks at floor, shakes head, rubs temples with fingers - I'd be over-joyed, as the time invested looking into that on my personal and the members behalf seemed like unproductive decadent and indulgent mental treading water.

The time spent on commas and hyphens was personally worthwhile.

An example of exceptional high quality problem-solving would be that of member Outrageo. Systematic elimination of variables using high probability descriptor terms, a superior application of effort and deductive reasoning. The other path to the word puzzle solution is intuition and guessing.

These disparate approaches are both valuable research methods when presented for member critique, evaluation and revision. I have a pen, EditPad and search engines. It would seem confirmation is not forthcoming so much for the word-puzzle as for the conceptual framework diagram. Crakeur had said "warmer" to some suggestions in regard to that graphic portion of the puzzle and none has been provided for the word puzzle. One term in the graphic was confirmed as being correct by Crakeur.

I can find no overt similar confirmations on the word puzzle suggestions (for instance, the punctuation and key queries). The clarification of the relationship between the conceptual framework diagram to the word puzzle by SkepticOverlord was helpful. There is "help" for the graphic portion of the challenge, so it may be that the graphic portion of the puzzle is preferentially favored to be solved before the word puzzle.

The statement that only SkepticOverlord has the word puzzle answer would seem a potential falsehood for the reason that this "Revolution" will be marketed and that should he meet an untimely demise dependent business event and continuance strategies would not be available.

From reading some of the material that Springer wrote and spending an hour or two following the reference links thoughtfully provided by the contributing members on crowd sourcing and the Revolution's potential nature, the phenomenal trend toward collaborative and shared solutions seems valid.

The participants are (to some extent) sharing their research without reserve serving to help integrate and co-ordinate the overall effort. I understand that this is an announced contest or competition of sorts for a prize not awarded on merit but merely having the first correct full solution. The winner gets the prize and others are rewarded knowing their own efforts.

If I had the ability to communicate with others and get some confirmation and validation with feedback and try and work with others in a genuine collegial process then this puzzle would be more easily solved. This shared task would lend itself to Human Intensive Task methods inherent in crowd sourcing. Participant distributed tasks combined with Independent and Rich Data Format offering "anything-anywhere-anytime" communication make the future look pretty exciting.

I have no new guess as to the solution of the word puzzle. I will offer that Outrageo's method combined with the shared pool of terms provided by he or she and others would yield results eventually. I'll guess some more later when I have a little disposable entertainment time.

The thread posts seem to have some French language and cultural references. This would seem about "Revolution" and the French Revolution may be relevant, but without confirmation or validation I will spend my time in isolation pushing characters and clusters of data around on paper and EditPad.

[edit on 20-10-2007 by lurk0more]

Just a couple more thoughts:
We have this image posted by :

reVolutionNoV5th



any clues in this?


Has anyone tried a stegography program or png decoder on the fist/mask image SO posted or the sphere pic?
files.abovetopsecret.com/images/115.png

files.abovetopsecret.com/images/whatisit.png


Is there a clue in one that solves the other?

Could the fist/mask image hold the key to the solving the phrase?

Who is this reVolutionNoV5th and why would this member join and only post 3 times in this thread only?

Don't mind my brainstorming, I am impressed by the efforts of many in trying to solve the puzzles and when I get an idea, I just toss it into the thread in case something has been overlooked.

reply to post by JacKatMtn


I, did notice reVolutionNoV5th recently as i was going over the thread and the amigos posts,i wonder is it a mod,or just someone adding nothing?

Im starting to wonder,do ATS have evidence of something big?

and are they going to brodacst it on November 5th?

you wouldnt be able to start a revoultion with nothing would you?

Back, to reality? i think its going to be some "newer" bigger better quicker way of getting user generated feed back and infomation. and conversing............and guess what you could get payed for you posts?

I have no clue of whats to do,but i know what i want,and this is the place to say it.........so roll on NOV5th and all you bring...........ull remember where we was this day "fo' sure"

thanks

All I know is the face posted is known as V.

Thank goodness I'm a patient old Grandma, the 5th of Nov. is right around the corner and I have lots to do to keep me busy.

I will say you guys love this stuff and this is what makes ATS the place to beeeeeee.

Interesting times aren't they.

reply to post by observe50


"they sure are Grandma' " x

I think they are going on the air. Their own channel and will have live shows like C2C from Midnight to 5am. It first airs on Nov 5th. at the Hotel Ganesvoort. But would the digital part mean satellite radio?

Am I close?

reply to post by Quazi176


Live on the air broadcasting what....? User Content?

Originally posted by lurk0more
...These disparate approaches are both valuable research methods when presented for member critique, evaluation and revision. I have a pen, EditPad and search engines.

It would seem confirmation is not forthcoming so much for the word-puzzle as for the conceptual framework diagram. Crakeur had said "warmer" to some suggestions in regard to that graphic portion of the puzzle and none has been provided for the word puzzle. One term in the graphic was confirmed as being correct by Crakeur...

I can find no overt similar confirmations on the word puzzle suggestions (for instance, the punctuation and key queries). The clarification of the relationship between the conceptual framework diagram to the word puzzle by SkepticOverlord was helpful. There is "help" for the graphic portion of the challenge, so it may be that the graphic portion of the puzzle is preferentially favored to be solved before the word puzzle...
[edit on 20-10-2007 by lurk0more]

Hello lurk0more,

certainly there has been a diversity of methods, just s there has been some diversity in the way information has been presented to us. We have had moderators dropping hints/clues, then they or others have said that only clues from the Three Amigos should be trusted -- though others may have some merit -- and we have had a couple of mystery posters like reVoltuion5thNov (if that's the correct name).

Actually I am quite enjoying the whole process because of its diversity...

I am actually intrigued that SO presented us with the two images first -- the "spheres" diagram and the "revolutionary binary fist" -- then later gave us the "dollnean" statement, but when asking us to decipher the statement he simply said it defined the "sphere" image and made no reference to the fist... I've already given an opinion on the oddities of that "fist" image (though it seems no-one here agrees with me ), but I still believe that it could have a role to play in deciphering the message.

We have had very little by way of overt confirmations, but some of us have been rewarded bonus points for apparently being on the right track. This certainly seems to be so in respect of anagram approaches and also (frankly) maintaining a positive belief that the mystery can be solved.

The hyphen: I asked about the hyphen problem several days ago because in some ciphers/codes it could represent a letter character. There has been no response to my queries in this regard or anyone else's either. So, we work on with what we have and hope that either someone can crack the key or at least get close enough to obtain a confirming response from one of the 3 Amigos.

Just an update: I have not yet found a word that works in the "dollnean" mesage with a relatively straightforward sequencing code. The latest try ("mission") didn't succeed either -- but that doesn't mean it's not in the message: it can easily be found there; I just haven't found a sequence to formally "extract" it that is workable.

reply to post by lurk0more


I wish it were as easy as HeeHaw..but i doubt it. I really applaud your efforts being a new member and all.If I could Star you I would...keep at it. Come down to BTS...make some posts...get your u2u quota.
And u2u me.Or anyone on this thread. Iam open to collaborating.This has gone way beyond a trip to New York.

reply to post by JustMike

Mike..

Darn where is a pair of 3-d glasses when you need em......

I just know looking at that diagram with a pair the words will show up.

I get a wierd borg type "collective" feeling about this who thing, especially when i look at that diagram.

Resistance Is Futile.

I tried messing around with the picture in photshop for about an hopur last night, turning stuff up down, I was like a mad scientist (because I know very little about photoshop) turning knobs and dials trying to get something to show.

I did manage to get a clearer image and definitly can tell which bubbles are one word and which are two, or hyphenated.

Although the center one is very hard to discern whats going on. I think it's the ATS logo, personally.

Someone already posted something similiar about 10 or 20 or so pages back. I may have gotten it a little clearer but not enough to post mine. I'll keep working on it though, and if I get it any better I post it up. But you all seem to be doing a fine job as it is.


Something that just popped into my head, since theres only a bit over 2 weeks till the Revolution:

-As a frequent traveler from FL, to NY, I can tell you, the sooner the winner figures this out the better. Airplane ticket prices(if you choose that form of travel) increase more and more the closer you purchase them to your travel date. Just something to keep in mind.

Resistance is futile is what we are told so we will believe it, only if we believe it is it true.

When someone has a puzzle they have incomplete information. So they fill in the missing parts with there own thoughts. This way only people with the same world view as the encryption have the missing pieces. It is targeted to people who see things a certain way. Everyone keeps trying to fit the puzzle to a view based on a single assumption of what it means, single meaning is rarely the truth in real life.

Ok..still on it.. Modified...wish I could make funky diagrams like Aces..but hey...
Here is my original dollnean translation:
"Imagine creating a user-generated content media Revolution."
Modifying to include the word digital.
" Imagine creating a digital user-generated content media Revolution."

Now for the spheres, or "Reason for being".

Center sphere-Above top secret/Above network Logo
Top sphere-Media
Clockwise next- User Content
Next-Radio
Next-Podcasts
Next-???
Next-Knowledge
Next-Conspiracies/Conspiracy
Next-Politics


I'm stuck on one...and I may be so far out in left field...but it's worth a try..always.
Damn I need a beer.

Originally posted by lurk0more
A Google search of Farquharson and quatrain leads to a Project Gutenberg Etext called "Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine" which has a French quatrain that has unusual words that may mean something as it contains the word "meme".

La nature, peu sage et sans douse en debauche
Placa le foie au cote gauche,
Et de meme, vice versa
Le coeur a le droite placa

the nature

I can't say what that means. I hope this means something or I hope no one else needs to repeat the search.

Hee Haw. Ha ha.

Tomorrow onto crowd sourcing, IDF and RDF!

This is translation I got
Nature, not very wise and without douse in Placa vice the liver with the left dimension,And the same, vice versa The heart has to it right placa

It tells me that the liver, the one who is alive, has a left lets say politically or maybe religious slant to it. But the heart is in the right place.

How is that?

Also the farquharson quatrain comment came from a member V Kaminski not a mod.

V Kaminski - "Mmmm... enticingly-dangled carrots, a talisman of many lead-journeys. A compass readable without horizon... hee, hee, hee, Junior Samples. 11 of "words", 9 of "spheres" - an order backward and calling to and from the future "tense". Awesome. Many "pearls", some larger some "mini".
How about another "Farquartic-quatrain"? Lichen the growth."

Inside the book you referenced I read the following.

To the highest type of philosophic minds it is the usual and the ordinary that demand investigation and explanation. But even to such, no less than to the most naive-minded, the strange and exceptional is of absorbing interest, and it is often through the extraordinary that the philosopher gets the most searching glimpses into the heart of the mystery of the ordinary. Truly it has been said, facts are stranger than fiction. In monstrosities and dermoid cysts, for example, we seem to catch forbidden sight of the secret work-room of Nature, and drag out into the light the evidences of her clumsiness, and proofs of her lapses of skill,--evidences and proofs, moreover, that tell us much of the methods and means used by the vital artisan of Life,--the loom,and even the silent weaver at work upon the mysterious garment of corporeality.

This is purly the statement where philosophers are elites looking at the common people, it speaks of silent weaver also. This is so obviouly related to the view I take this thread as.

This exactly matches my interpretation of pulling the cats ears and tail to make a song from this page.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Learn from the masses what does works on the masses, learn where there are the holes in the disinformation.

This also matches my comment that we are beta testers for the disinformation machine.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Even when medical science became more strict, it was largely the curious and rare that were thought worthy of chronicling, and not the establishment or illustration of the common, or of general principles. With all his sovereign sound sense, Ambrose Pare has loaded his book with references to impossibly strange, and even mythologic cases.

we are the curious and rare being chronicled. We speak of conspiracies, they can ignore the sheep watching American Idol and Jerry Springer.

it follows that the future clinician and investigator must have use for a handbook that decides whether his own strange case has already been paralleled or excelled. He will thus be aided in determining the truth of his statements and the accuracy of his diagnoses. Moreover, to know extremes gives directly some knowledge of means, and by implication and inference it frequently does more.

So all our actions can be cataloged and compared to similar actions in the past to find best ways to understand the anomalies, since they may be just rare cases previously cataloged, or that will occur and therefore should be cataloged. Google indexing anyone. Is this site being compiled as a reference for the elite?

we suggest that the suspicion may easily be too active. When Pare, for example, pictures a monster, we may distrust his art, his artist, or his engraver, and make all due allowance for his primitive knowledge of teratology, coupled with the exaggerations and inventions of the wonder-lover; but when he describes in his own writing what he or his confreres have seen on the battle-field or in the dissecting room, we think, within moderate limits, we owe him credence.

Disregard the speculation and find the indications of personal knowledge on issues, then give that the heavier credibility

Although the above image with the words revolution says read the book, I only read the preface and got this from there.