Last west super power

Revelation
17:15 The angel also said to me, "The waters you saw, on which the prostitute sits, are nations, peoples, races, and languages.
17:16 The ten horns you saw and the beast will hate the prostitute; they will take away everything she has and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and destroy her with fire.
17:17 For God has placed in their hearts the will to carry out his purpose by acting together and giving to the beast their power to rule until God's words come true.
17:18 "The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

the woman is UN headquarters in NYC the "great city" that rules over the kings of the earth.

So the woman is US or NAU and the dragon is her allies like the EU or others.

i don't know if there's any final conclusion about this verses

please tell me.


thx before

reply to post by Eastpolar Commander


Revelations is a book written by a mad man, and most of the early christians didn't even want it canonized. I wouldn't take anything written in it to heart. Aside from the fact that it isn't about future events, but rather current to the author's era.

First, where do you get that the Apostle John was a madman and that the early church didn't want Revelation canonized? The debate was actually over whether it should be Peter's or John's apocalyptic writing included in the Bible. The events mentioned in Revelation couldn't have happened in the author's era either because, well, it mentions over half the population of the Earth dying, larger natural disasters than ever, and Christ's return--which hasn't happened yet, but will soon.

The prostitute that's mentioned in verse 15 is the Anti-Christ's false religion, which is established after he saves Israel from attacks from her neighbors [which are the Muslims today]. The ten horns mentioned would be the Revived Roman Empire [which according to Daniel 2 is the Kingdom yet to come which is similar to the 4th (which was Rome) yet basically won't stay together well]. This seems to be fulfilled right now by the EU because it's trying to make a unified Europe [which is what Rome was] but due to cultural differences struggles through issues. The US doesn't struggle with unity--and it doesn't have 10 rulers which is what the horns stand for and has been proposed for the EU.

The beast is the Anti-Christ.

The later half of verse 16 says that the Anti-Christ will get rid of the false religion. When you look at other passages, it happens 3 1/2 years into the 7 year tribulation period. At this point the Anti-Christ says that he is God and forces the world to worship him alone.

Verse 17 is saying that God is giving this evil the ability to do what they want, yet it will end up fulfilling God's purpose for history.

The final verse, 18, is probably the HQ of the anti-Christ. If the EU is the revived Roman empire, it would be Brussels, as it's the capital of the EU and the AC comes from the EU block [the EU is rising to a place of very prominant position in the world today]. Or, it could be the head of the AC's false religion/HQ which could be Rome.

Tom

Thx Tom!

so what you think the good power is? Russia or what? or we just have to believe in God and doing what we do now without regard who is the antichrist or what his nation?

thank u

The good in the Bible are always those who are on God's side and have accepted Christ as Savior. So, as far as what we're to do now, we're supposed to live lives that glorify Christ since we don't know for sure who the Anti-Christ is or the Revived Roman Empire.

Tom

Im not much into bible interpretations, but if you are interested, you can check out the Worlds Last Chance videos and see if you agree with their interpretations.

Their conclusions of who is the first and second beast of Revelation is John Paul II and USA.


[edit on 14-9-2007 by Copernicus]

I've been study so called Christian history for years, and Arcane is dead on the ball. Perhaps if you dont want to be taken for a fool, maybe the doomsayers should do a little research outside the bible so they don't look so uneducated. I'm sorry but its the truth.

Originally posted by BeyondAuthority
I've been study so called Christian history for years, and Arcane is dead on the ball. Perhaps if you dont want to be taken for a fool, maybe the doomsayers should do a little research outside the bible so they don't look so uneducated. I'm sorry but its the truth.

Thanks BeyondAuthority. I guess some people just decide to let others tell them what's in the bible, rather than read it for themselves...

Originally posted by octotom
First, where do you get that the Apostle John was a madman and that the early church didn't want Revelation canonized?

I'm pretty sure the Apostle John didn't write Revelations.

John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.

en.wikipedia.org...

The debate was actually over whether it should be Peter's or John's apocalyptic writing included in the Bible. The events mentioned in Revelation couldn't have happened in the author's era either because, well, it mentions over half the population of the Earth dying, larger natural disasters than ever, and Christ's return--which hasn't happened yet, but will soon.

I don't remember reading that, would you like to cite some verses for review?

The prostitute that's mentioned in verse 15 is the Anti-Christ's false religion

ok...stop right there. There's no mention of any antichrist in Revelations. So you'll need to come up with a new theory here.

The beast is the Anti-Christ.

Prove it. No one has been able to yet, so I'd like to see your data.

The later half of verse 16 says that the Anti-Christ will get rid of the false religion. When you look at other passages, it happens 3 1/2 years into the 7 year tribulation period. At this point the Anti-Christ says that he is God and forces the world to worship him alone.

Verse 17 is saying that God is giving this evil the ability to do what they want, yet it will end up fulfilling God's purpose for history.

The final verse, 18, is probably the HQ of the anti-Christ. If the EU is the revived Roman empire, it would be Brussels, as it's the capital of the EU and the AC comes from the EU block [the EU is rising to a place of very prominant position in the world today]. Or, it could be the head of the AC's false religion/HQ which could be Rome.

You're stabbing in the dark with nothing to hit. You're seeing things in the text that aren't there. Please stop, it's giving me a headache.

Its been held since the early church that John the Apostle and John of Patmos are one in the same. The only major people to disagree are Luther and Zwingli, but, people with my mind set disagree with them alot of the time anyway. Here is a source: soniclight.com...

On that Wikipedia article, when you look under the traditional view, it says that the two works are very similar as well.

I looked up what the definitions of those two different means of 'lamb' are in Greek and they both just mean a lamb. (Source: Thayer's Greek definitions). Here's a thought, maybe there were two different words for lamb used because John's vocabulary changed. That happens over the course of time that word usage changes. I can see that with the people around me. When I was in middle school you would say, 'that's cool!'. Now kids will say that's hot or sweet! All communicate the same idea though.

There is a mention of the Anti-Christ in Revelation. Revelation 6:2 mentions a white horseman. This horseman appears to be like Christ but only appears to be righteous but is extremely wicked. He appears to be the Messiah to trick the Jews. We can see that the beast is the Anti-Christ because the two are likened together in the book of Daniel.

Whenever you're interpreting Biblical apocalyptic literature you can't do it by itself. You have to interpret it along side other Biblical apocalyptic literature (ie Daniel and Ezekiel). Doing so allows you to see what the different symbols mean. Also, if you believe that Revelation was already fulfilled, remember that most prophecy has an immediate and future fulfillment.

1 Peter 5:8 says: Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

I ask that you meditate on that verse. Satan knows that in today's world, he will be able to bring more and more people down with him through knowledge--or what the world calls knowledge. Satan wants nothing more than to bring all the people of earth into the pit of fire with him. The Bible says as well that in the last days there will be an increase of knowledge throughout the world.

How about the Bible Code dudes!!!

It is the truth!

in fact there is so many evidence of it!

666?, antichrist?, mother nature?, earthquake?, some island will lost?, say a word!

how it couldn't be truth!?

and Bibles teaching still relevant even in more than 2000 years!

think about it guys! i read some books about peoples that went to heaven...

they said so! i still consider the revelation is the fact!

Originally posted by octotom
There is a mention of the Anti-Christ in Revelation.

Here we go again.

Revelation 6:2 mentions a white horseman. This horseman appears to be like Christ but only appears to be righteous but is extremely wicked.

I don't care if it's a purple dinosaur, it didn't say antichrist.

John the Apostle is pretty clear in his letters as to who the antichrists (yes, plural) are.

It appears as though the author was concerned about heretical teachers that had been influencing churches under his care. Such teachers were considered Antichrists (2.18-19) who had once been church leaders but whose teaching became heterodox. It appears that these teachers taught that Jesus Christ was a Spirit being without a body (4.2), that his death on the cross was not as an atonement for sins (1.7) and that they were no longer able to sin (1.8-10). It appears that John might have also been rebuking a Gnostic name Cyrinthus, who also denied the humanity of Christ.

en.wikipedia.org...

In fact, the term antichrists ONLY appears in the Epistle of John, and nowhere else. In fact, it's only mentioned 4-5 times. Quite irrelevant to all the 'beast' nonsense.

He appears to be the Messiah to trick the Jews. We can see that the beast is the Anti-Christ because the two are likened together in the book of Daniel.

chapter and verse please?

Whenever you're interpreting Biblical apocalyptic literature you can't do it by itself. You have to interpret it along side other Biblical apocalyptic literature (ie Daniel and Ezekiel). Doing so allows you to see what the different symbols mean.

Except for the 500 year difference in time, language, and culture. So no.

Also, if you believe that Revelation was already fulfilled, remember that most prophecy has an immediate and future fulfillment.

Prophecy = Wishful Thinking. Nothing more.